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Vertical cab stacking---the only way to play

#362
one idea came into my mind recently: what about a 4x10 (or 3x10), on column of 10"s full-range, other column low-passed for only the bass-mid frequencies (lets say ~under 800Hz) ?
and the upper two drivers could be slanted, like guitar half-stacks.
4x10 size for bass handling, but vertical 2x10 for highs+mid-highs.

/I still have to "build on paper", since the speaker is under shipping for my 1x12.. then maybe for another 1x12 if I like it.. if 12"s are not for me, I'm planning to build a 4x10/
 
#363
ZolkoW said:
one idea came into my mind recently: what about a 4x10 (or 3x10), on column of 10"s full-range, other column low-passed for only the bass-mid frequencies (lets say ~under 800Hz) ?
Click to expand...
That concept, often referred to as a 2.5, has been used by the PA and hi-fi speaker industries for at least 20 years. Give it another 20 years and a bass cab manufacturer might take notice of it. :D
 
#365
ZolkoW said:
:-)
then maybe it's not completely useless :)
why 2.5 ? where could I read more about this?

thanks!
Click to expand...
2.5 refers to a where two woofers run in tandem in the low frequencies but one woofer is low-passed so that it does not work into the midrange. There are many examples of this in PA and hi-fi cabs, especially hi-fi, so check out hi-fi DIY sites for details. My personal feeling is that it in PA it unnecessarily complicates things if the woofers are vertically aligned. In hi-fi, however, it's very useful in overcoming the baffle step. It also would work well in the application you mentioned. Just low-pass one of the woofer lines at the 1 wavelength center to center frequency of the two vertical lines. The improvement in midrange response and dispersion could be dramatic.
 
#366
Thank you!
I hope, I would be able to try it in the future..


billfitzmaurice said:
2.5 refers to a where two woofers run in tandem in the low frequencies but one woofer is low-passed so that it does not work into the midrange. There are many examples of this in PA and hi-fi cabs, especially hi-fi, so check out hi-fi DIY sites for details. My personal feeling is that it in PA it unnecessarily complicates things if the woofers are vertically aligned. In hi-fi, however, it's very useful in overcoming the baffle step. It also would work well in the application you mentioned. Just low-pass one of the woofer lines at the 1 wavelength center to center frequency of the two vertical lines. The improvement in midrange response and dispersion could be dramatic.
Click to expand...
 
#367
This thread has inspired me to have a similar cabinet built by Low Down Sound. I have been thinking of a configuration to take advantage of the crossover from my Alembic F1-X. I've always wanted to mix the full range out with the low out. I'm anxious to see what will become of this idea.
 
#370
Stumbo said:
Wouldn't you get some kind of comb filtering if the drivers are'nt aligned properly. Maybe Mr. Fitzmaurice would comment on this.
Click to expand...

Hey Stumbo,
I was referring to the 2.5 concept mentioned above. So essentially, I'd have the cab wired as 2 vertical 2x10s. One side gets the full range output from my Alembic and the other side gets the low pass output from my Alembic. Perhaps Mr. Fitzmaurice could explain how to determine the proper frequency to crossover at.

I was also thinking of having the tweeter mounted top center along with a 5 1/4" drive to handle the upper mids to highs while the tweeter handles anything above 8 or 10k. Would this be overkill?

Does angling the top two cones (like in a guitar cab) affect comb filtering at all? I was considering this as well.

Bill can you comment? :help:
 
#371
Melvin7822 said:
Hey Stumbo,
I was referring to the 2.5 concept mentioned above. So essentially, I'd have the cab wired as 2 vertical 2x10s. One side gets the full range output from my Alembic and the other side gets the low pass output from my Alembic. Perhaps Mr. Fitzmaurice could explain how to determine the proper frequency to crossover at.
Click to expand...
If the Alembic has a low passed output then you don't have to low pass the drivers as well, but the two lines will need separate amplification.

I was also thinking of having the tweeter mounted top center along with a 5 1/4" drive to handle the upper mids to highs while the tweeter handles anything above 8 or 10k. Would this be overkill?
Click to expand...
There isn't enough above 8kHz to bother with, unless you like hiss. Going directly from a woofer to a tweeter crossed over at 3.5kHz or higher is technically bizarre. It gives up an octave of midrange that should be there while giving an extra octave of high frequency response that the bass doesn't need, while highlighting the hiss that most bass amps produce. If your midrange doesn't go above 6kHz or so and you want a bit more sparkle run a pair of piezo tweeters vertically stacked, series wired, which will keep their sensitivity low enough so that hiss won't be apparant.

Does angling the top two cones (like in a guitar cab) affect comb filtering at all? I was considering this as well.
Click to expand...
If you have a midrange driver there's no need.
 
#373
billfitzmaurice said:
If the Alembic has a low passed output then you don't have to low pass the drivers as well, but the two lines will need separate amplification.

There isn't enough above 8kHz to bother with, unless you like hiss. Going directly from a woofer to a tweeter crossed over at 3.5kHz or higher is technically bizarre. It gives up an octave of midrange that should be there while giving an extra octave of high frequency response that the bass doesn't need, while highlighting the hiss that most bass amps produce. If your midrange doesn't go above 6kHz or so and you want a bit more sparkle run a pair of piezo tweeters vertically stacked, series wired, which will keep their sensitivity low enough so that hiss won't be apparant.

If you have a midrange driver there's no need.
Click to expand...

Hey Bill,
I agree with you that I was definitely not planning to low pass the drivers, but relying on the Alembic's crossover. Is there a specific frequency that I would want to set the crossover to? I was planning on utilizing both channels of my CA-9.

As far as the tweeter and midrange driver idea, where would you think the most beneficial placement would be? Sparkle definitely isn't something I lack currently, it's mids.
 
#375
ZolkoW said:
and if I work with tens? let's say, tehere's a 3x10", with one 10" slightly slanted?
Click to expand...
Slanting doesn't address comb-filtering, just the midrange beaming of drivers too large for the frequency passed. That makes it a band aid fix of a problem that requires surgery, ie., a midrange driver that doesn't beam.
Is there a specific frequency that I would want to set the crossover to?
Click to expand...
No higher than the 1 wavelength center to center distance of the two driver lines.
 
#376
I have an Epifani UL902c and a UL112, and I want to add either another UL112 or a PS112 (I could actually stack up to four 112 cabinets with the UL902c). I was leaning toward buying a PS112 and putting it under the UL112 to give a little extra low end, but now I'm wondering if using two different 112 cabinets in a stacked configuration would be susceptible to the comb filtering effect. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bob
 
#377
RColie said:
I'm wondering if using two different 112 cabinets in a stacked configuration would be susceptible to the comb filtering effect. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bob
Click to expand...
So long as the drivers are on the vertical plane combing isn't an issue. Mixing different cabs/different drivers can lead to phase response issues in the low end, though, so it's best not to do so unless you've tried the combination to be sure it works well.
 

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