Was there any good punk rock?

[FryFunk]

Yeah but it's not because of punk. Gangsta rap and acid house took out a fair old chunk of audience for a number of years after rock got it's equalibrium back in the post punk wash up.

Sure I agree with that. Rock was destined to recede into a somewhat smaller fan base.

The question is whether or not it has to be something 5% of the population listens to or 1%.

The question is why does active rock music still need to exist?

The goto answer is because people still want to see people play live music.

Beyond that, there are so many other forms of entertainment for rock to compete with.

For sure.

The question is how much push back is rock offering up?

The main way in which it pushes back is instrumentation.

Some people will always want to see live music.

The problem is it's not holding any ground with it's peers in jazz/classical/country etc.

In fact in relative position rock is losing a massive amount of ground.

If you compare them to other genres where instrumentation is on the forefront, the big line of separation is musicianship/aesthetic.

With Jazz/Classical you generally know what to expect. There are obviously grade schoolers butchering both genres, but in general you're being sold on aesthetic and musicianship. A violinist that can't play on time is commonly considered bad.

With rock music anyone can crawl on stage and it's considered legitimate entertainment, because the punk rock aesthetic is so firmly established.

But most of all, rock has splintered into a million subgenres that all think they are the keepers of the one true faith.

This would be a great thing if it was split via territory. It'd be great if every city had its own sound and its own music.

But instead it's ultra common to find a band with a 100 fans in every state and a 1,000 fans in none.

The affordability of recording means it's easier than ever to record your own album.

The problem is if you want rock music to be a live genre, you need some form of common denominator.

You need a reason more than 10 people will come to a show.

The days when everyone loved the Beatles and the Stones are long gone and are not coming back.

Except if you go on spotify Beatles/Zeppelin etc are still top of the list.

The small room full of people who still like rock unite under pre punk rock.

It had started before punk and accelerated after it. Music is no longer an identifier for a world wide youth movement.

Yeah I donno, I think "kids these days" are always gonna have music they align with. I'm not suggesting listening to music is dead, and I don't think we've run out of songs that can be written.

It's just the reason to pick up a guitar is dwindling.

One of the main reasons fragile arts/forms of entertainment, propagate is through competitive nature.

People aren't gonna randomly start watching a kid in rural Sri Lanka play field hockey. People are interested in watching the best of the best of the sports they're exposed to. Because everyone takes part in the social pyramid of sports. People who don't play who watch, people who play but aren't good enough, and those who rise to the top.

Rock lacks that mechanism, the only place it remains is in Djent music.

Which is radically more popular than anything else among 18 year olds, and it's quite obviously because it's based on talent above all else.

 

[Grinderman]

Most of those were fads too.

What are you, some kind of institution?

 

[Grinderman]

Sure I agree with that. Rock was destined to recede into a somewhat smaller fan base.

The question is whether or not it has to be something 5% of the population listens to or 1%.

The question is why does active rock music still need to exist?

The goto answer is because people still want to see people play live music.






For sure.

The question is how much push back is rock offering up?

The main way in which it pushes back is instrumentation.

Some people will always want to see live music.

The problem is it's not holding any ground with it's peers in jazz/classical/country etc.

In fact in relative position rock is losing a massive amount of ground.

If you compare them to other genres where instrumentation is on the forefront, the big line of separation is musicianship/aesthetic.

With Jazz/Classical you generally know what to expect. There are obviously grade schoolers butchering both genres, but in general you're being sold on aesthetic and musicianship. A violinist that can't play on time is commonly considered bad.

With rock music anyone can crawl on stage and it's considered legitimate entertainment, because the punk rock aesthetic is so firmly established.




This would be a great thing if it was split via territory. It'd be great if every city had its own sound and its own music.

But instead it's ultra common to find a band with a 100 fans in every state and a 1,000 fans in none.

The affordability of recording means it's easier than ever to record your own album.

The problem is if you want rock music to be a live genre, you need some form of common denominator.

You need a reason more than 10 people will come to a show.


Except if you go on spotify Beatles/Zeppelin etc are still top of the list.

The small room full of people who still like rock unite under pre punk rock.


Yeah I donno, I think "kids these days" are always gonna have music they align with. I'm not suggesting listening to music is dead, and I don't think we've run out of songs that can be written.

It's just the reason to pick up a guitar is dwindling.

One of the main reasons fragile arts/forms of entertainment, propagate is through competitive nature.

People aren't gonna randomly start watching a kid in rural Sri Lanka play field hockey. People are interested in watching the best of the best of the sports they're exposed to. Because everyone takes part in the social pyramid of sports. People who don't play who watch, people who play but aren't good enough, and those who rise to the top.

Rock lacks that mechanism, the only place it remains is in Djent music.

Which is radically more popular than anything else among 18 year olds, and it's quite obviously because it's based on talent above all else.

 

[prowla]

What are you, some kind of institution?

 

[Hummergeist]

"Was there ever any good rock?" is the same quality of question.

 

[FryFunk]

False, you said it was the problem, the cause, until you moved your goal posts.

Like I said there are multiple goal posts.

Rock is dying is objective, it being cause by punk rock is more complicated.



My opinion is punk finished off rock. To even have that discussion, we have to agree that rock itself it is dying.

You can't pick up one post and forget the other.

I've got news for you, we're all dying. It's not a problem, it's just how it is, and punk rock or any other genre of music has zilch to do with it.

Except legacies live on, if you don't care about the legacy of rock music simply admit to it.

I guess this is another goal post, do you care if rock music is still active in 50 years?

Personally I do.

Feel free to prove causation, beyond your claim of correlation, in what you've been claiming here from the beginning, or don't. I'm only here for the entertainment value.

Quote where I said I have objective proof punk killed rock. My objective proof was in directly to that it is dying.

Perhaps that's a clever wrinkle in your performance art; to kill this thread. Deep.

The point of the thread is talking about if there are any good punk bands, it's pretty relevant to the discussion.

 

[FryFunk]

Well, Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi, Palestrina and Beethoven died many years ago and classical music still lives...

There's endless amounts of Latin literature, yet it's pretty much unanimously a dead language.

Classical has the off chance that it could again become popular, it at very least is front seat in most high school music programs.

 

[Grinderman]

Quote where I said I have objective proof punk killed rock. My objective proof was in directly to that it is dying.

This gets said, but you have to ask yourself how true it actually is.

Personally I believe punk killed rock music.

I don't mean in some abstract way either, I mean it quite directly told the labels, you could promote people who couldn't sing in key, play on time, or be all that much more original than 1 6 4 5.

If rock made it to the MTV era without punk, I think rock music today would still be alive.

This guy can't even keep track of his own comments.

You clearly don't understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Good bye.

 

[J_Bass]

 

[Keyser Soze]

 

[zubrycky]

There's endless amounts of Latin literature, yet it's pretty much unanimously a dead language.

Classical has the off chance that it could again become popular, it at very least is front seat in most high school music programs.

Latin is a dead language but it left descendants. My native tongue, Portuguese, is, among other languages, a direct descendant of latin.

Things change.

 

[J_Bass]

Latin is a dead language but it left descendants. My native tongue, Portuguese, is, among other languages, a direct descendant of latin.

Things change.

Hello brother from the other side of the ocean!

Aliás, olá irmão do outro lado do oceano!

 

[FryFunk]

You clearly don't understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Do you? Are you claiming how a genre is played has no influence on how popular it is?

Are you claiming punk wasn't wildly influential?

The claim there's no causal link is preposterous.

The discussion is how strong the punk effect actually is.

You can argue it has 0.01 effect, and I'll argue it has a 20% effect, that's fine.

 

[FryFunk]

Latin is a dead language but it left descendants. My native tongue, Portuguese, is, among other languages, a direct descendant of latin.

Things change.

So you're claiming to be fluent in Latin?

Hip hop is almost a direct child of RnB/Motown etc.

I'm quite certain it has a long history ahead of itself.

 

[zubrycky]

Hello brother from the other side of the ocean!

Aliás, olá irmão do outro lado do oceano!

Obrigado pelas saudações cordiais, meu irmão da terra de Luís Vaz de Camões!

 

[BadSanta1281]

Was there ever any good music?

Sorry... just trying to keep up with the cool kids.

 

[monkeyfinger]

There's endless amounts of Latin literature, yet it's pretty much unanimously a dead language.

Classical has the off chance that it could again become popular, it at very least is front seat in most high school music programs.

So what we are left with, according to you, is that the only thing of value in music is what is on the playlist at the local frat party. That is a pretty dismal view of the world.

 

[zubrycky]

So you're claiming to be fluent in Latin?

I didn't say that. However, latin's influences on Portuguese language are huge.

 

[FryFunk]

So what we are left with, according to you, is that the only thing of value in music is what is on the playlist at the local frat party. That is a pretty dismal view of the world.

That's a pretty weak argument, it's a barometer of change, not the be all.

For me personally it's about the availability of live rock music.

I was the youngest in the room at 20, the youngest in the room at 25 and now the youngest in the room at 35.

 

[zubrycky]

A dead language is, by definition, a language that is no longer the native language of any community.

It's something completely unrelated to any musical genre that's still being played and listened. To truly kill a musical genre, you must destroy physically all its recordings, instruments, musicians, listeners, musicologists, historians and, of course, all the methods and all the sheet music related to that musical genre.

It can be done but it's not an easy task.