Was there any good punk rock?

[Bass Jones]

BTW, I dig your "Lucky" Scott avatar.

Yeah, he's one of my heroes. He could be funkier with 3 notes than anyone.

 

[Grinderman]

Yeah, he's one of my heroes. He could be funkier with 3 notes than anyone.

I remember when I heard the news of Mayfield's passing. That was a hard one.

 

[truand85]

It's in the middle, it had a similar advantage to classical, where it is still popular among universities etc.

It's the advantage rock simply lacks.

There's no reason for the education system to cultivate rock.

Anecdotal experience, but when I was 18 many of the kids studying music were only doing Jazz/Classical because that's what universities offered. My wife teaches at a university and that trend seems to be reversing where kids are actually preferring classical/jazz, and are often relatively ignorant about rock.

20 years ago, rock bands might occasionally include a rendition of some jazz song in their set list.

In 20 years the least shocking thing possible would be that Jazz bands will occasionally include rock songs in their set lists.

This is where I focus in on the popularity of written original music. To me it defines whether or not something is a living genre.

One of the surprising things at my wifes schools was a trend of younger conductors etc introducing more modern classical songs. It made the older folk squirm but you could see the young eyes light up.

Rock cannot survive if musicianship /aesthetic isn't at the forefront.

My anecdotal exposure to music in recent years has been djent/jazz/classical, non djent rock is more or less limited to nostalgia trips.

Musicianship is top of the list concern for people who listen to music with actual musicians.

The only exception is Country, which is my estimation is replacing rock. The musicianship is there, and it's song that any class/gender/whatever can gravitate to you.

Album sales is what you base your whole argument on yeah? For a guy who's been talking about this for 50 years you sure are missing the mark.

 

[Grinderman]

Johnny Machine/John Herndon/A Grape Dope, from Tortoise, turned me onto this album, hanging out listening to records, about 30 years ago.

 

[Grinderman]

View attachment 4719098

Album sales is what you base your whole argument on yeah? For a guy who's been talking about this for 50 years you sure are missing the mark.

Keeping it BassTalk... My two favorite bass parts* out of all those.





(the bass parts is a combination of bass guitar and keys on Billie Jean)

 

[FryFunk]

View attachment 4719098

Album sales is what you base your whole argument on yeah? For a guy who's been talking about this for 50 years you sure are missing the mark.

Why are people insisting "so you're saying the only thing that matters is the one thing you mention, stop moving the goal posts"

I'm not basing my opinion on any one thing and I started making this argument 20 years ago, and I've last revised this argument in the last few months.

I've done my homework with this one.

Are we shocked the two biggest rock movies of the last decade are movies about elton john and freddy mercury?

EDIT: I get you think I now believe movies are the be all end all of the popularity of music. Feel free to tell me covering all the bases is moving the goal posts.

 

[bolophonic]

Except it's anti merit, anti respect etc.

There's no such thing as paying your dues in punk.

The idea someone should develop and earn credibility is being a "sell out".

The whole point is you get the arrogance of a arena rock bands without supplying a drop of talent.

 

[flannel cat]

 

[zubrycky]

It's in the middle, it had a similar advantage to classical, where it is still popular among universities etc.

It's the advantage rock simply lacks.

There's no reason for the education system to cultivate rock.

Anecdotal experience, but when I was 18 many of the kids studying music were only doing Jazz/Classical because that's what universities offered. My wife teaches at a university and that trend seems to be reversing where kids are actually preferring classical/jazz, and are often relatively ignorant about rock.

20 years ago, rock bands might occasionally include a rendition of some jazz song in their set list.

In 20 years the least shocking thing possible would be that Jazz bands will occasionally include rock songs in their set lists.

This is where I focus in on the popularity of written original music. To me it defines whether or not something is a living genre.

One of the surprising things at my wifes schools was a trend of younger conductors etc introducing more modern classical songs. It made the older folk squirm but you could see the young eyes light up.

Rock cannot survive if musicianship /aesthetic isn't at the forefront.

My anecdotal exposure to music in recent years has been djent/jazz/classical, non djent rock is more or less limited to nostalgia trips.

Musicianship is top of the list concern for people who listen to music with actual musicians.

The only exception is Country, which is my estimation is replacing rock. The musicianship is there, and it's song that any class/gender/whatever can gravitate to you.

Good points.

However, you underestimate one of rock's biggest strengths, its capacity of reinventing itself around the globe in contact with native musical genres. Your reality, my friend, is only one of the multiple ones that exist. This planet is bigger than your country, my country or other one. It's presumptuous to apply your conclusions of the inevitable death of rock to the whole world.

And rock doesn't need universities to be preserved. Not yet, at least.

 

[Grinderman]

View attachment 4719098

Album sales is what you base your whole argument on yeah? For a guy who's been talking about this for 50 years you sure are missing the mark.

//That might not be what they said. (now)

 

[FryFunk]

You underestimate one of rock's biggest strengths, its capacity of reinventing itself around the globe. Your reality, my friend, is only one of the multiple ones that exist.

Aside from Djent wha?

This planet is bigger than your country. It's presumptuous to apply your conclusions to the whole world.

Tell me more about how a massive increase in disposable incomes world wide has created a negligible affect on rock.

 

[bolophonic]

Man, there is nothing worse than listening to some square droning on and on about a genre he doesn’t listen to or know anything about. It’s not like everyone is sick of listening to that by the time they are an adult.

 

[FryFunk]

Man, there is nothing worse than listening to some square droning on and on about a genre he doesn’t listen to or know anything about. It’s not like everyone is sick of listening to that by the time they are an adult.

I grew up playing punk/grunge, I was in "the scene" until 2012.

 

[Dincrest]

I think the most punk thing in this thread is that Curtis Mayfield and Michael Jackson are now in it.

They're totally cool. Toss 'em a beer and let 'em join the party!

Music has no boundaries. And many of the punks I knew loved all kinds of music and showed their appreciation by moshing/slamming to it. We would have totally moshed to Curtis Mayfield to show that we're totally into that music. If music moves us, it literally moves us.

I remember playing in a downtempo indie rock band and most of my friends (who were punks) came out to see us play because, well, they valued and wanted to support me. So, yeah, seeing them moshing to our quieter music was crazy yet totally cool.

I will unabashedly headbang at a jazz show if the music moves me.

This band, Joy on Fire, refers to themselves as punk-jazz. And apparently punk-jazz and jazzcore have been a thing for decades now.

 

[bolophonic]

I grew up playing punk/grunge, I was in "the scene" until 2012.

You’re just yapping.

 

[Grinderman]

RIP Waldo

 

[Grinderman]

Is it punk? Is to me.

 

[Nebula24]

I really like how this thread is still active and going. Bands mentioned that i dont know are fun to look up. Technicals of what's punk ignored by me.

 

[factory presets]

Sure I agree with that. Rock was destined to recede into a somewhat smaller fan base.

The question is whether or not it has to be something 5% of the population listens to or 1%.

The question is why does active rock music still need to exist?

The goto answer is because people still want to see people play live music.






For sure.

The question is how much push back is rock offering up?

The main way in which it pushes back is instrumentation.

Some people will always want to see live music.

The problem is it's not holding any ground with it's peers in jazz/classical/country etc.

In fact in relative position rock is losing a massive amount of ground.

If you compare them to other genres where instrumentation is on the forefront, the big line of separation is musicianship/aesthetic.

With Jazz/Classical you generally know what to expect. There are obviously grade schoolers butchering both genres, but in general you're being sold on aesthetic and musicianship. A violinist that can't play on time is commonly considered bad.

With rock music anyone can crawl on stage and it's considered legitimate entertainment, because the punk rock aesthetic is so firmly established.




This would be a great thing if it was split via territory. It'd be great if every city had its own sound and its own music.

But instead it's ultra common to find a band with a 100 fans in every state and a 1,000 fans in none.

The affordability of recording means it's easier than ever to record your own album.

The problem is if you want rock music to be a live genre, you need some form of common denominator.

You need a reason more than 10 people will come to a show.


Except if you go on spotify Beatles/Zeppelin etc are still top of the list.

The small room full of people who still like rock unite under pre punk rock.


Yeah I donno, I think "kids these days" are always gonna have music they align with. I'm not suggesting listening to music is dead, and I don't think we've run out of songs that can be written.

It's just the reason to pick up a guitar is dwindling.

One of the main reasons fragile arts/forms of entertainment, propagate is through competitive nature.

People aren't gonna randomly start watching a kid in rural Sri Lanka play field hockey. People are interested in watching the best of the best of the sports they're exposed to. Because everyone takes part in the social pyramid of sports. People who don't play who watch, people who play but aren't good enough, and those who rise to the top.

Rock lacks that mechanism, the only place it remains is in Djent music.

Which is radically more popular than anything else among 18 year olds, and it's quite obviously because it's based on talent above all else.

Rock is pushing back with all the strength it can muster without symphonic death metal people being forced to co-operate with industrial goth metal people.

Classical music is healthy in part because it enjoys massive government subsidies around the world. Kind of hard to put the hand out when you an art form that made a name smashing up expensive instruments.

Most people may not watch Sri Lankan field hockey. But plenty of them listen to K Pop.

World's moved on. Your options are move with it or spend the rest of your life trying to relive the teenage years. Hopefully with looser trousers.

 

[Grinderman]

A long sweeping curve back to The Clash.