Was there any good punk rock?

[MDBass]

It's almost as if each generation gets weaker and weaker than the year before.




And what's the average age of those crowds 35?




The "biggest rockstars" are legacy acts.

The music doesn't die overnight, it's on a steep steep decline.

If you told me 20 years ago, that rock was competing with Jazz amongst 15 year olds, I'd laugh myself out of my chair.

Nowadays it's becoming quite common, that rock is ranked 5th 6th or even 7th, among people under 20.

And if they do actually listen to rock, the vast majority of the time they listen to acts who's youngest members are in their late 30s, and quite often in their 50s and 60s.

Respectfully, you’re obviously out of touch with what’s going in the music industry currently: most of what you wrote is objectively inaccurate.

The headliners for the biggest rock festival in the US last year (60k in attendance) were in their late 20’s: a band like Led Zeppelin at the height of their popularity was also in their late 20’s.

I provided you with recent examples of how rock music is still a multi-billion dollar business, nowhere close to “dead” by any definition of the word, and you responded by moving the goalposts.

Since you’re just looking to argue instead of understand, I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Grinderman]

Where to even begin...

Your testimony here has been compelling evidence that music and musicians ought to be licensed and regulated by a Ministry or Cultural Affairs to shut down these poisonous cretins who crowd out the the purer, more noble breed of musicians.

Although, at least one essential question remains in that regard too. Why couldn't the cream compete and rise to the top, ideally according to social Darwinism?

Well, at least you can yell at em if they--gutter trash--ever dare cross into your front yard, right?

I love this it's either lets promote sloppy off time out of tune music, or lets lock that down and make everything be played in 7/4 withe triple hand tapping.


Because Cockroaches can out produce stallions.

If we're talking about the natural evolution of music, you end up in a world where everything is written by some algorithm on Spotify. And we're getting there far faster than you might think.




For that to happen, someone would have to be wanting to hire a punk band to play in their bar. Nowadays bar owners would rather let someone with an iphone take over their bar than a band.

You've never truly considered the you part in all of what you're on about here, have you?

Perhaps this just a put-on. If it has been, bravo to you.

BTW, for what it's worth, at least Spoon is playing in London on July 11th. Probably not something you would go to see, nor would I.

Hey... look at that... we have that much in common.

 

[FryFunk]

You've never heard of the french impressionist art movement? Matisse, Chagall, Monet, Renoir?

And why would I?

Are not all of these people dead?

These are some of the most famous painters in the history of art.

In "the history". It's a dead genre.

This style was a complete break from the traditional arts of the french schools. They were told that they have no technique and their art was worthless. It's the same argument you are making about punk music.

And this is your shield, you keep rehashing some argument made in 1960, as if it is the narrative of 2022.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I like punk(i played punk as a kid), it's about whether or not the genre has any future.

Rock is a dying genre, and in a hundred years people will remember it as a historical oddity of the mid 1900s.

They won't even remember punk rock existed, they'll remember the beatles/elton john etc.

If you don't want to bring in a discussion about painting as a counter-argument, then how about the blues? None of the early delta-blues singers were experts in their instruments. Yet, somehow, they managed to completely change the face of music.

And when was the last time you heard blues music being played at a frat party?

There's always gonna be people interested in obscure genres of music from the dead past.

But for me, I'm more interested in things that are still alive.

 

[Robot.G]

Speaking about Black Sabbath and punk...

Best cover ever!

 

[Grinderman]

And why would I?

Are not all of these people dead?


In "the history". It's a dead genre.



And this is your shield, you keep rehashing some argument made in 1960, as if it is the narrative of 2022.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I like punk(i played punk as a kid), it's about whether or not the genre has any future.

Rock is a dying genre, and in a hundred years people will remember it as a historical oddity of the mid 1900s.

They won't even remember punk rock existed, they'll remember the beatles/elton john etc.





And when was the last time you heard blues music being played at a frat party?

There's always gonna be people interested in obscure genres of music from the dead past.

But for me, I'm more interested in things that are still alive.

Yeah, 99% chance this person is pulling all of our taffy here.

 

[Grinderman]

And why would I?

Are not all of these people dead?


In "the history". It's a dead genre.



And this is your shield, you keep rehashing some argument made in 1960, as if it is the narrative of 2022.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I like punk(i played punk as a kid), it's about whether or not the genre has any future.

Rock is a dying genre, and in a hundred years people will remember it as a historical oddity of the mid 1900s.

They won't even remember punk rock existed, they'll remember the beatles/elton john etc.





And when was the last time you heard blues music being played at a frat party?

There's always gonna be people interested in obscure genres of music from the dead past.

But for me, I'm more interested in things that are still alive.

This is some kind of performance art. Very punk of you.

 

[FryFunk]

Respectfully, you’re obviously out of touch with what’s going in the music industry currently: most of what you wrote is objectively inaccurate.

Or you no maybe I don't live in LA and rock music is increasingly becoming more and more out of reach.

The headliners for the biggest rock festival in the US last year (60k in attendance) were in their late 20’s: a band like Led Zeppelin at the height of their popularity was also in their late 20’s.

And I have no idea what band you're even talking about.

I provided you with recent examples of how rock music is still a multi-billion dollar business, nowhere close to “dead” by any definition of the word, and you responded by moving the goalposts.

Have you actually provided even 1 single example, like literally even one?

Large festivals are gonna be a thing for some time. Millenials are only in their 30s, you still got a few decades left.

Since you’re just looking to argue instead of understand, I’ll leave it at that.

"Rock isn't dead, it's alive in my bubble, I don't pay attention to anything else".

 

[zubrycky]

Except it's anti merit, anti respect etc.

There a lot of lyrical content in punk rock music.

Punk rock isn't a monolithic thing and everyone have the right to express themselves.

There's no such thing as paying your dues in punk.

With all due respect, you're wrong. Many punk musicians are quite good and improved technically with time.

I came from a punk rock scene and I paid my dues. I'm still trying to be a better musician every day.

Again, punk it's not a monolithic thing.

The idea someone should develop and earn credibility is being a "sell out".

This kind of stupidity isn't a punk rock audience exclusivity.

The whole point is you get the arrogance of a arena rock bands without supplying a drop of talent.

1) Debauchery isn't a exclusivity of any musical genre. Anyone can be a nice guy or a jerk and that's not remotely related with musical genres.

2) Your inability of seeing talent (this isn't an accusation because everyone - including you and me - is blinded by their own personal bias. C'est la vie) and/or your personal concepts of lack of talent aren't proof of lack of talent. It's only your opinion and how you see things. I'm ok with that.

You know, I also regard many things as talentless but I understand that I could be wrong and I respect everyone, no matter how much I may strongly dislike their work.

 

[FryFunk]

Yeah, 99% chance this person is pulling all of our taffy here.

You want to play the good old, lets look up actual album sales?

And watch how year after year rock albums have receded out of popularity?

You'll fast move the goal posts and claim album sales don't matter.

I've been through this game before.

In the 1970s rock albums were regularly 7-8 out of the top 10.

By the late 1990s it dropped down to 2-3 out of the top 10.

Last thing I remember being in the top 10 was Coldplay's Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends and that was a hold out released in 2008.

I'm sure I'm missing 2 or 3 albums, but the numbers don't lie.

And I'm sure people are gonna counter with some line about how young people don't buy albums anymore, and than they're try to explain why Adele/Katy Perry/ Kane Brown, etc are running circles around rock albums.

This isn't my first rodeo. It's a well established thing that acts from the 80s/90s are making the vast vast majority of ticket sales for live events.

 

[Grinderman]

You want to play the good old, lets look up actual album sales?

And watch how year after year rock albums have receded out of popularity?

You'll fast move the goal posts and claim album sales don't matter.

I've been through this game before.

In the 1970s rock albums were regularly 7-8 out of the top 10.

By the late 1990s it dropped down to 2-3 out of the top 10.

Last thing I remember being in the top 10 was Coldplay's Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends and that was a hold out released in 2008.

I'm sure I'm missing 2 or 3 albums, but the numbers don't lie.

And I'm sure people are gonna counter with some line about how young people don't buy albums anymore, and than they're try to explain why Adele/Katy Perry/ Kane Brown, etc are running circles around rock albums.

This isn't my first rodeo. It's a well established thing that acts from the 80s/90s are making the vast vast majority of ticket sales for live events.

Your goal posts and you'll move them yourself if you want to. We've been watching you do that here all along. This is hilarious.

You perhaps think I or anyone else gives a crap about what you think or your goal posts, beyond amusement.

This is TB comedy gold, and you're a legend here in the making.

 

[MDBass]

Or you no maybe I don't live in LA and rock music is increasingly becoming more and more out of reach.


And I have no idea what band you're even talking about.




Have you actually provided even 1 single example, like literally even one?

Large festivals are gonna be a thing for some time. Millenials are only in their 30s, you still got a few decades left.




"Rock isn't dead, it's alive in my bubble, I don't pay attention to anything else".

A six week arena tour, with an average attendance of 15k-20k, with the headliner making six figures in merchandise sales alone every night, and an average audience age in their late 20’s isn’t enough of an example?

“I have no idea what band you’re even talking about.”

Thanks proving my point, both about how out of touch you are and your obvious intent to argue.

Festivals have multiple stages and multiple headliners: multiple headlining bands at the largest rock festival last year were considerably younger than you assumed.

Rock music is also exponentially more popular outside of LA than in it, both in the continental US and worldwide.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

 

[FryFunk]

Your goal posts and you'll move them yourself if you want to. We've been watching you do that here all along. This is hilarious.

Or maybe there are multiple goal posts, and you think pointing to the many are "gotcha moments".

There's endless ways the quantify the decline of rock music.

Album sales, average age of listeners, average age of touring bands, number of venues playing the music etc.

It's an exstensive list.

 

[factory presets]

The third similarly so, but quickly seemed to merge with reggae influence, and the bands seemed to reform as ska revival bands, but ska revival with a much harder, punk edge than 1960s ska. Listen to the 1979 Peel session of The (English) Beat, and it's still quite punky at times.

Others may not agree, of course.

Don't know the Peel sessions. But that whole 1st album was the perfect crossover, in a way that none of the other ska bands came close to. Or even the Police. Steppas and toasting at 90MPH. Reggae with a jangly punk guitar chug. None of that switching back and forth between styles.

 

[Grinderman]

Or maybe there are multiple goal posts, and you think pointing to the many are "gotcha moments".

There's endless ways the quantify the decline of rock music.

Album sales, average age of listeners, average age of touring bands, number of venues playing the music etc.

It's an exstensive list.

You've yet to provide any material evidence or metrics to back (quantify) your assertion that "poisonous" punk rock is the cause or even part of the cause; your first assertion.

You've got yourself hopeless ensnared in your own multiple goal nets.

 

[Geogio]

I totally missed it... heard it. I think I was into prog jazz, fusion, newgrass, jazzgrass, diesel billy around those years. The big corporate punk... we all knew. But the local talent could be the stuff of legend almost.

 

[factory presets]

I remember the Instigators!

Probably not the Barbs tho. That was a wild band. Few holes inour game but influences out our ears. Time sigs. Made up chords and scales. That voice. And always come back to the hooks.

Good times

 

[Mysterion]

This may not look like punk rock to modern eyes--it's from a time before punk had established conventions, dress codes, and so forth. But in the moment...Yeah, punk AF.

If you feel that technical mastery is some sort of merit badge for musical validation....Nina Hagen brings all the technique.




Need more proof of her vocal chops?




In 1978, I was 19, and this was my ideal woman. Swoon...

 

[prowla]

That's a cartoon. Your understanding and account of what's be going on, time and history, up to the present, are simply false.

Maybe you need to get out more.

Here's a tip, take her out to see Barry Manilow.

Or maybe you'd like this.

Your goal posts and you'll move them yourself if you want to. We've been watching you do that here all along. This is hilarious.

You perhaps think I or anyone else gives a crap about what you think or your goal posts, beyond amusement.

This is TB comedy gold, and you're a legend here in the making.

Here's some comedy gold for you.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Don't know the Peel sessions. But that whole 1st album was the perfect crossover, in a way that none of the other ska bands came close to. Or even the Police. Steppas and toasting at 90MPH. Reggae with a jangly punk guitar chug. None of that switching back and forth between styles.

 

[Grinderman]

Next Up: Someone argues that punk rock is the cause of the decline of eight-track tapes, Betamax, Blockbuster Video, movie theater box office receipts, satellite and cable TV subscriptions, and FM music radio broadcasting.