What constitutes a bass player being considered overrated ?

[JAUQO III-X]

How can the creator's (maybe misguided) sense of "perfection" in his own work control the listener's perspective on the same work?

Who says that some of these artist are concerned about some one perceiving their perfect piece of work as not being perfect?


And if the work is perfect to the creator,why does the question of the work possibly being misguided, have to come into the picture?

Couldn't one just respect the artist work for what it is?

 

[cosmicevan]

why does a critic need to be able to create what they criticize? the critic's creation is their critique. if you don't like someones critique do you not have a right to criticize it? just because you are a bassist and not a critic doesn't make your opinions any less valid...and just because you are a critic and not a bassist doesn't make your opinions any less valid either.

definition of criticize = to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly : evaluate or to find fault with : point out the faults of

what i consider a merit (like good tone or smooth attack) might be something that you don't notice.

as for what constitutes a player as being overrated...that's simple. the answer is; the perspective of whomever is saying that they are overrated constitutes them as overrated. overrated is not a fact-based thing. if so, please point me to the place where the official rating scale is and tell me how it is determined...and if it really was official, then how could someone be over-rated?

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Don't matter who it was made for. A turd sandwhich does no man (or woman) no good.

 

[Barkless Dog]

Making too much money for too few notes.

The more notes played, the less money one makes.

I was reading Zappa's biography and he said he said Jazz = Poverty.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Who says that some of these artist are concerned about some one perceiving their perfect piece of work as not being perfect?


And if the work is perfect to the creator,why does the question of the work possibly being misguided, have to come into the picture?

Couldn't one just respect the artist work for what it is?

Well, I guess it wasn't a rhetorical question.........

I could smear poop on a piece of paper, hang it in a gallery, and call it art. I could call myself and artist, and deem my poop art to be perfect. Will you have any respect for me or my work?

The word respect gets overused in these situations. To respect a piece of art is to hold it in high esteem. If I find the work grossly unpleasing, I probably won't have much respect for it.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I could smear poop on a piece of paper, hang it in a gallery, and call it art. I could call myself and artist, and deem my poop art to be perfect. Will you have any respect for me or my work?

It's a strong possibility.

 

[willgroove2]

I think that the term "overrated" is so subjective that it is really hard to define.To some people anyone who is well known who they are not personally into is overrated.To others someone who has limited skill's but has been a part of something successful is overrated so there are a few different ways of looking at the subject.As far as the critic thing my take is this;I think that the level of knowledge a critic should have about something is related to the audience he or she is speaking to.If your talking at a very technical level about art,music ect your talking to a small percentage who understands what your basing your criticism on ,most people are at the "i like,I don't like it" stage and thats fine and completey valid

 

[guy n. cognito]

It's a strong possibility.

Is that a new-fangled way of saying no?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Roger Ebert, Eric Rohmer, Peter Bogdanovich, Francois Truffaut, and Claude Chabrol all did excellent work in filmmaking

Have you actually seen "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls?

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Is that a new-fangled way of saying no?

No, not at all. There's a strong possibility that I just might like the work in question.

 

[worker201]

Couldn't one just respect the artist work for what it is?

If the work was created in a vacuum, and evaluated in a vacuum, sure. But the human mind is comparative by nature. I can't just forget all those thousands of songs I've heard before while I'm listening to something new. And honestly, the artists can't forget all those thousands of songs they've heard before while they are creating their own. If that's true, then it isn't even possible to know "what it is" without placing it into a larger framework, which requires subjective judgment and implicit categorization. In a way, I've changed the meaning of what comes out of the speakers just by choosing to listen to a song. It is the duty of the artist as a communicator to understand this, and the truly great artists manipulate it in order to control the impact of their message.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

It's interesting how listeners will take an artist perfect(ed) work of art and make it into their own and criticize it as if it were theres to begin with.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The term "overrated" as used on TB usually says far more about the person using it than the person they're talking about IMO. How often is it used to describe something they like?

 

[JAUQO III-X]

The term "overrated" as used on TB usually says far more about the person using it than the person they're talking about IMO.

 

[vicenzajay]

I think it's important to distinguish between having some knowledge of the thing you're critiquing (which is what I think Jauqo is getting at) versus possessing a specific set of skills.

Example:

If I tried to critique a dancer, they could rightly say "Well, let's see what you got". Well, I got nothin'; I don't have the skill set so I would look a fool, and the critiqued dancer could feel justified in dismissing my critique. But what's really happening is that I don't know jack about what I am critiquing, and that is the real reason why my critique would lack value.

As opposed to:

Me critiquing a saxophonist. He could also say to me "Well, let's see what you got". In this case too since I lack the skills to play the sax I would suck and he could feel equally confident dismissing my critique. Initially it would appear my critique of his playing was just as hollow as my dancing critique.

The difference is I know the subject matter here. If he's out of tune, has bad time, poor note choices, uneven tone, etc, etc...I do not need the specific skill set of playing his axe to be vaild in my critique. Rather, I need to know what I'm talking about.

You don't have to be an amazing bassist to be able to make a valid critique of another bassist, but you do need to know what you're talking about is you wish your critique to carry any weight.

That's how I see it anyway

This is precisely the correct point...if it were not, conductors would have no right to criticize or correct the section of the orchestra (or the individual players) that is not playing either correctly or stylistically congruent with the composition as it is being interpreted unless the conductor played EVERY instrument in the orchestra at a level approaching that of each section's first chair. While there are a few prodigies that can do justice to many instruments, the vast majority of competent, extremely musical conductors of large and successful orchestras (not to mention all the OTHER types of ensembles) possess not only a particular musical skill-set..but an appraisal and leadership skill set as well.

Knowing what you are talking about (or listening "to") in this case...to include knowledge and exposure/immersion in "music" performance as a genre with a view to what makes a performace brilliant or simply average....is the pertinent "skill" to discuss here...not someone's "chops"...many musicians have raw chops without an ability to articulate, critically appraise, or judge performance and other's abilities from a holistically musical point of view.

In my opinion, of course.

Jay

 

[worker201]

It's interesting how listeners will take an artist perfect(ed) work of art and make it into their own and criticize it as if it were theres to begin with.

Seriously, though, has anyone ever walked up to a complete stranger and said "Hey, I want to experience something that you've created, something you are proud of, something that defines your legacy"? Uh, no. I'm just kinda sitting here. The artists, who have poured out their hearts and souls, put their work out there for everyone to see, and as luck would have it, I happened to be looking in that direction. So I saw it. Sometimes I ignore it, like a cigarette butt on the side of the highway. Sometimes I look at it for awhile, and decide it's not worth my time. Sometimes I get excited and want some more. Absolutely not up to the artist to decide what I do with their work. They gave it to me. For all practical purposes (and copyright law aside), it is in fact mine now. And I'll do what I please with it.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Seriously, though, has anyone ever walked up to a complete stranger and said "Hey, I want to experience something that you've created, something you are proud of, something that defines your legacy"?

Yes.

Absolutely not up to the artist to decide what I do with their work. They gave it to me. For all practical purposes (and copyright law aside), it is in fact mine now. And I'll do what I please with it.

In most cases they don't care what you do with it once you've purchased it from them, especially after you've helped them put food on the table.

 

[CapnSev]

The more notes played, the less money one makes.

This will be going in my signature, thank you very much!

 

[guy n. cognito]

It's interesting how listeners will take an artist perfect(ed) work of art and make it into their own and criticize it as if it were theres to begin with.

That's life. If the artist doesn't like it, then they should keep their work to themselves.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

That's life. If the artist doesn't like it, then they should keep their work to themselves.

Well wait until you release your work of art and see if you will be able to find the basics of understanding from the critics who may not have a clue to what you have created