Double Bass What did Charlie Parker do?

[PB+J]

Being a historian for a living and a musician for pleasure, I tend to think that you can't understand what Charlie Parker did without understanding jazz as working for a living rather than jazz as art or theory. Playing in a big band section, multiple sets every night, you are going to get to know those changes inside and out and upside down. Bird came up memorizing Lester Young solos, and Lester was a master at playing clever, surprising things over familiar changes--accenting unexpected beats, starting on unexpected notes. He was puckish and funny and sly. Harmonically, that's a lot of what I hear in bop--"what else can I do with How High the Moon? Can I use these notes most people avoid?" It's partly being sick of it, and also being young and hip and fed up with some bandleader telling you what to play.

Then in my opinion in America there's always the race piece. The media called Benny Goodman the King of Swing: part of the impulse behind bebop was busting the balls of swing guys and also of a world which could not tell the difference between Glenn Miller and Lester. I'm not saying race is everything, Bird was perfectly happy to listen to and play with white guys who could play. But I always see building bop heads on familiar changes as kind of an ironic commentary, a form of "signifying" in the African American tradition. An ironic twist on the familiar.

The way they loosened up the beat was cool too, and also kind of ironic--dropping accents in unexpected places, finding new ways to propel the tune. There are lots of ways to understand what he did--I think a lot of it had to do with being a young black guy in a segregated country playing show tunes in a section.

Every time I get called to play a bop tune I can feel the straightjacket of diatonic harmony. Tonic cycle cycle cycle tonic. It's like being locked in a room; you've examined every inch of it and there's nowhere else to go anymore. Really makes me understand why Miles wanted to go modal. I wish Bird had lived to see the modal era, but I doubt he would have been comfortable with it. He was the Bernini of diatonic harmony, the master of its baroque period.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Being a historian for a living and a musician for pleasure, I tend to think that you can't understand what Charlie Parker did without understanding jazz as working for a living rather than jazz as art or theory. Playing in a big band section, multiple sets every night, you are going to get to know those changes inside and out and upside down. Bird came up memorizing Lester Young solos, and Lester was a master at playing clever, surprising things over familiar changes--accenting unexpected beats, starting on unexpected notes. He was puckish and funny and sly. Harmonically, that's a lot of what I hear in bop--"what else can I do with How High the Moon? Can I use these notes most people avoid?" It's partly being sick of it, and also being young and hip and fed up with some bandleader telling you what to play.

Then in my opinion in America there's always the race piece. The media called Benny Goodman the King of Swing: part of the impulse behind bebop was busting the balls of swing guys and also of a world which could not tell the difference between Glenn Miller and Lester. I'm not saying race is everything, Bird was perfectly happy to listen to and play with white guys who could play. But I always see building bop heads on familiar changes as kind of an ironic commentary, a form of "signifying" in the African American tradition. An ironic twist on the familiar.

The way they loosened up the beat was cool too, and also kind of ironic--dropping accents in unexpected places, finding new ways to propel the tune. There are lots of ways to understand what he did--I think a lot of it had to do with being a young black guy in a segregated country playing show tunes in a section.

Every time I get called to play a bop tune I can feel the straightjacket of diatonic harmony. Tonic cycle cycle cycle tonic. It's like being locked in a room; you've examined every inch of it and there's nowhere else to go anymore. Really makes me understand why Miles wanted to go modal. I wish Bird had lived to see the modal era, but I doubt he would have been comfortable with it. He was the Bernini of diatonic harmony, the master of its baroque period.

Some great points there and I agree that people who haven't gone through this, can't understand it. So I meet a lot of semi-pro Sax players who can't wait to put that straitjacket on! I think that if you lack imagination, but have some technical facility - bebop is great to play, as you just get dragged along!

When you hear great musicians playing bebop it brings out their total familiarity with these tunes - but I find when I hear lesser talents, it is inevitably dull...? For the reason you describe.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

Bird was known for playing "outside". He frequently used side-slipping. The most incredible thing Bird did for jazz was implying different chords over the chord structure, classical theory like retrograde etc, at incredible, off the cuff, speed, managing to accompany himself and his incredible speed. You know the average tempo of EVERY record released after Bird's first bebop hit went up.

 

[PB+J]

LOL. I agree, that's not a very useful or accurate description

 

[Paul Warburton]

Bird was known for playing "outside". He frequently used side-slipping. The most incredible thing Bird did for jazz was implying different chords over the chord structure, classical theory like retrograde etc, at incredible, off the cuff, speed, managing to accompany himself and his incredible speed. You know the average tempo of EVERY record released after Bird's first bebop hit went up.

Take me now, Jesus.

EDIT: Sorry, PB+J.....I had to edit my post.

 

[MR PC]

He frequently used side-slipping.

Side slipping...... when someone takes a quick sip offa someone's cocktail when dey ain't lookin. I doubt Bird needed to do that sort of thing.

Off topic, our old pal who arranged "Bird With Strings" just passed. I wonder if he's welcome in the great Bebop and Beyond.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

Merely making the problems you have with my post bold and then saying something to the effect of you not agreeing with them is hardly constructive. Perhaps you could enlighten me with your all-knowing? As I understood it, he used a technique called side-slipping. Playing a phrase where everything is a semi-tone sharp in order to get a particular effect. Perhaps I'm wrong. What you're doing is of no help to the thread moving forward. Sorry 'bout showing an interest in Bird. I thought you would revel in young cats wanting to learn about jazz innovators and great players. You don't do much except make vague criticisms.

 

[PB+J]

Sorry slim--there's been a long thread about Bird here with lots of opinions. I gave mine above.

My own conclusion is it's actually hard to pin down what Bird did as a single thing. it comes from a range of changes in the whole band, the whole section played differently after bop. Not necessarily faster, but with a different feel. He doesn't really play "out," in my opinion, because the sense of diatonic harmony is SO strong in his tunes. I don't think it's a specific set of notes; as people said he has great time: he had a real genius for phrasing. Compare him to, say Coleman Hawkins' famous version of Body and Soul and Hawkins is harmonically really clever, as clever as anything in bop, but the phrasing is all different and the rhythm section is all different.

 

[MR PC]

Relax Shakey.......in what context have you heard the term used? Perhaps some of us aren't hip to that musical terminology. New s*** comes to light around here every day.

 

[Beginner Bass]

More chromaticism generally. It involved more modulating and "Outside" tones. Bebopreally brought the tritone out of the closet and into more common use. It will typically deviate more from the key.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

Sorry slim--there's been a long thread about Bird here with lots of opinions. I gave mine above.

My own conclusion is it's actually hard to pin down what Bird did as a single thing. it comes from a range of changes in the whole band, the whole section played differently after bop. Not necessarily faster, but with a different feel. He doesn't really play "out," in my opinion, because the sense of diatonic harmony is SO strong in his tunes. I don't think it's a specific set of notes; as people said he has great time: he had a real genius for phrasing. Compare him to, say Coleman Hawkins' famous version of Body and Soul and Hawkins is harmonically really clever, as clever as anything in bop, but the phrasing is all different and the rhythm section is all different.

Oh yeah, I agree, it's very hard. I just thought I would list a couple of things I had heard about. My jazz tutor told me about some research he had read where the average tempo rose on every record after. That's hardly important though. I also agree that it isn't necessarily "out", but his playing could be, what many with theory training, would call wrong in some occasions. It's not "out" in comparison with, say, Albert Ayler or Dolphy to some extent, but what's important is the historical context. Bird's contribution to jazz isn't how we perceive it today but how those who were on the scene at that time would have seen it. It would have been pretty out there I'm sure. On the same track as they were headed, but miles out front. I think that main difference between Hawk and Bird is while Hawk plays vertically, being so interested in harmony, and someone like Pres plays horizontally (although also known for using notes to twist the ear, it can't be denied that his main goal was melody) Bird has the best of both worlds. His music is harmonically rich, but he was trying to construct interest melody at the same time. Stopping at odd times in the bar etc. (Once again, odd in historical context) I also agree that it was about the whole group. Bird sure didn't invent bop but he was a figurehead without a doubt. This is all, as usual, the obligatory IMO etc. I apologise if my last message seemed rather heated. It's just a certain old man and his love to nitpick

 

[Shakin-Slim]

Relax Shakey.......in what context have you heard the term used? Perhaps some of us aren't hip to that musical terminology. New s*** comes to light around here every day.

My jazz history tutor here at the NZSM. Perhaps it is a term only used over here but I'm sure the same technique occurs elsewhere. It's a minor detail of his musical prowess anyway

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Unless you've seriously studied Bird yourself, I think the only safe things you can really say anything about him is that he is a genius, an original, and to some extent an enigma. The fact that so many people of big and small stature are still studying him decades after he's been gone is a testament to his power and his ability to create.

Yeah I can see where someone could say he likes to "side-slip", but saying that is not even remotely scratching the surface. Want to understand him better? Pick any of his melodies and keep playing the melody til it's coming out of your ears. It certainly did it for me - and what I've learned so far was just a glimpse of what was possible. Words cannot fully describe his ingenuity.

To say that he side slips or uses outside this and that only describes some of his elements as a mechanical device, which IMO is missing most of the forest for the tree. It doesn't address the artistic reasons why he chose the notes he did.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

Unless you've seriously studied Bird yourself, I think the only safe things you can really say anything about him is that he is a genius, an original, and to some extent an enigma. The fact that so many people of big and small stature are still studying him decades after he's been gone is a testament to his power and his ability to create.

Yeah I can see where someone could say he likes to "side-slip", but saying that is not even remotely scratching the surface. Want to understand him better? Pick any of his melodies and keep playing the melody til it's coming out of your ears. It certainly did it for me - and what I've learned so far was just a glimpse of what was possible. Words cannot fully describe his ingenuity.

To say that he side slips or uses outside this and that only describes some of his elements as a mechanical device, which IMO is missing most of the forest for the tree. It doesn't address the artistic reasons why he chose the notes he did.

Well said. I'm with you wholeheartedly on everything there. I only chose those couple of techniques in order to list a few things he did which were relatively new. I would, however, not want to use anything short of 'genius' to describe his playing.

 

[RatchetJazz]

While I agree that Parker did play outside the changes a lot, most of the licks of his that I find most memorable were very tonal. The licks that he seems to fall back on the most have more to do with chord extensions than with slipping in and out of the tonality. Here's a Link Removed that illustrate what I mean.

 

[onionpuzzle]

What I cant grasp is what happened when Bebop came along. They expain it a little in the show but I dont understand exactly how the music changed from bebop and why. It all sounds like "jazz" to me. Before and after the bebop era.

Back to the OP...

Music Evolution is a Slow and Gradual process, from pounding on hollow logs all the way up to Electronica.

Everything else is just "in between".... stylistic incest.

 

[Baswithone"s"]

Wow, I can't believe no one mentioned learning the melodies to the classic bebop songs. Learn "I Got Rhythm" and "Cottontail" then learn "Shaw 'Nuff" and "Antropology." Compare "How High The Moon" to "Ornithology." "Indiana" and "Donna Lee." A look at the melodies that came before Parker, Gillespie, Powell, etc and the ones those guys came up with illustrates what the OP was asking pretty well. Even if you don't understand the theory, the differences in those tunes are pretty obvious.

 

[Don Higdon]

But I always see building bop heads on familiar changes as kind of an ironic commentary, a form of "signifying" in the African American tradition. An ironic twist on the familiar.

No. It was a way to escape paying royalties for use of the standard. Race had nothing to do with it. No one did this more than Lennie Tristano.
Royalties were vigourously enforced. So when a bop 'head' record was sold (record sales were mostly singles at the time), the composer of the head got paid by the record company.

 

[Don Higdon]

Every time I get called to play a bop tune I can feel the straightjacket of diatonic harmony. Tonic cycle cycle cycle tonic. It's like being locked in a room; you've examined every inch of it and there's nowhere else to go anymore. Really makes me understand why Miles wanted to go modal. I wish Bird had lived to see the modal era, but I doubt he would have been comfortable with it. He was the Bernini of diatonic harmony, the master of its baroque period.

Bop tunes and bebop as a style are the antithesis of diatonic. What's diatonic, and a straightjacket, is modal playing.

. He doesn't really play "out," in my opinion, because the sense of diatonic harmony is SO strong in his tunes.
Compare him to, say Coleman Hawkins' famous version of Body and Soul and Hawkins is harmonically really clever, as clever as anything in bop, but the phrasing is all different and the rhythm section is all different.

As for Hawkins and Parker, Hawkins was more toward the diatonic (never completely so) and Parker was chromatic. Late in his short life, Parker came to Tristano seeking ideas to further develop what he was doing.

Bird's contribution to jazz isn't how we perceive it today but how those who were on the scene at that time would have seen it. It would have been pretty out there I'm sure.

Correct. What upset the jazz establishment was the amount of chromaticism in Bird's playing. I'm one of those old guys who "was on the scene at the time". So is your apparent nemisis, Paul W. Speaking for myself, it can be very frustrating to have stuff presented to us as fact when we were there and know from experience what was what. Makes me cranky.

Anecdote: During an interview, Dizzy was asked about Sidney Bechet, who was on a wave of popularity at the time. Dizzy said "I just don't dig those five notes he plays." The interviewer facetiously wrote about "the 500 notes that Dizzy plays".

 

[Don Higdon]

One of my teachers used to talk about how similar Bebop and J.S. Bach's music are, both harmonically and historically.

Sorry, Eric, I can't buy this. In my studies of harmonic theory with composer Ron Nelson we were thoroughly grounded in the Bach theory as a starting point. One of our work books was every chorale he ever wrote. There was nothing like bop anywhere. In addition, I've sung some of his major works with orchestra and chorus. Same deal. His contemporary Antonio Vivaldi was more adventurous harmonically. One of his Glorias has an entire movement based on 7ths with 11ths and flat 9s.
I will say that one of Bach's famous flute pieces has been played over a jazz rhythm section and parts of it are rhythmically very hip. I think the Swingle Singers did a recording of it.