Who here plays low F#?

[shaft311]

I had a 6-string Warwick Corvette that I strung low F#-G. I also had a Hipshot xtender which dropped it down to an E.

It was just something I had to get out of my system. I kept the bass strung like that for about a week and then returned it to standard tuning. I couldn't find a use for notes that low.

Anyway, my Warwick Big Cab (2x15) handled the notes well. Amp setup was Hellborg Pre and Crown 2402 power.

 

[subbasshz]

Home theater is not the same as live music. Even DJ systems are different than live music systems. So let's keep the discussion limited to live music systems so we're comparing apples to apples.

NSS

I was only bringing in DIY home theater junkies to prove that it can be done, but at an astronomical cost.

 

[AlexanderB]

JBL SRX 728 is neither cutting edge nor exotic, but still has -3dB point of 32 Hz, unprocessed. With a slight tweak, it can go flat-ish below 30 Hz (with limited spl).

 

[Bassgeer]

Lol guys I love how when anyone asks about gear for F# it turns into a debate about whether you can reproduce the fundamental. There are plenty of examples where F# works great on bass (Nolly). Of course, longer scale helps to keep the notes clearer (Dingwalls are great with their 37" scale, I really want to try this out at some point). I don't have too much to offer advice wise, but there has been some good recommendations. hopefully the OP will get more.

 

[String Theory]

Circle K Strings / Kalium 0.200" and an Ampeg SVT 410hlf have worked well for me to play F#.

 

[AlexanderB]

Can anyone of you "fundamental does not matter" people tell me EXACTLY which note that marks the transition from "fundamental should be evenly reproduced" to "fundamental is not required".

If the "fundamental is not required" is true, there surely has to be a common understanding exactly to what extent the fundamental can be treated and reproduced. -3dB? -10dB? can it roll off an octave higher? What slope is allowed?

Until you can present a proven, common definition, I will remain in the "studio monitor / good PA" camp.
I expect to stay there for a LONG time...

 

[obimark]

Why?

 

[JimmyM]

Can anyone of you "fundamental does not matter" people tell me EXACTLY which note that marks the transition from "fundamental should be evenly reproduced" to "fundamental is not required".

G.

 

[kurotenshi]

Nolly from Periphery tunes a .170 to F#

Nolly's approach is much in line with what a lot of you were saying. He uses A LOT of distortion on his signal (5150 simulation on the AxeFX) to bring forth the harmonics and overtones of the low note.
Furthermore, his cabs cutoff at very high frequencies (for a bass cab) and he uses a Tom microphone for capturing instead of a bass drum mic. This is also in line with the ideia of using HPF to enhance the sound.

 

[AlexanderB]

Thanks Jimmy, glad it so now settled.

What I am trying to convey is that the "missing fundamentals camp" is just made up of a lot individual opinions, parroting and "propaganda". What I (and many others) try to do is to offer the tools and knowledge on HOW to reproduce very low frequencies. (Been there, done that, including active crossover, multi amps and DIY subs.) The result is tangiable, comparable data, not some arbitrary number or phrase. And as long as one have not heard the full spectrum of the instrument, one should not really take sides, IMHO.
And I know that many here, Jimmy included, are perfectly happy wht a truncated response already of the standard E string, while I really prefer a decently flat and response down to low B, for the few occasions and songs I gig the fiver. The benefit is a very dynamic, rich and effortless E from my standard basses.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Thanks Jimmy, glad it so now settled.

What I am trying to convey is that the "missing fundamentals camp" is just made up of a lot individual opinions, parroting and "propaganda". What I (and many others) try to do is to offer the tools and knowledge on HOW to reproduce very low frequencies. (Been there, done that, including active crossover, multi amps and DIY subs.) The result is tangiable, comparable data, not some arbitrary number or phrase. And as long as one have not heard the full spectrum of the instrument, one should not really take sides, IMHO.
And I know that many here, Jimmy included, are perfectly happy wht a truncated response already of the standard E string, while I really prefer a decently flat and response down to low B, for the few occasions and songs I gig the fiver. The benefit is a very dynamic, rich and effortless E from my standard basses.

Give me a list of cabs that have measurements showing how much content they have below 100 hz.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I really, really miss BFM. Anyone in good enough with him to get him to come out of TB exile?

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Find a copy of Flim and the BBs recording "Bicycle" It was the demo at many hi-fi stores back in the 1980s, partially for the extremely low bass notes and how clear and loud they were. Wore my copy out but I believe you can download it. I believe the lows go down to F# (not sure though).

Again, leave hi-fi, home theater, or whatever you are into along with pre-recorded music out of the discussion. We all know it can be done, but we are talking about live music here. Can't compare apples to oranges.

FWIW, I also hang out on the Klipsch and other hi-fi forums. I have a tri-amp hi-fi system I built with horn-loaded bass bins, horn mids, active crossover, ss & tube amplification, yada, yada, yada. And it goes right down to the brown note. But it was not designed to withstand the rigors and unpredictability of a live music situation.

A popular question the beginners always ask is "Why does my home stereo go 20Hz~20kHz, but my bass cab craps out at 50Hz?"

One answer is to get a degree in engineering and/or acoustics, but that leaves one with between 50~100K of debt, then you still have to find a job in that field to pay it off.

Or you can research the heck out of the topic like I did by reading, asking, more reading, more asking, designing/experimenting/building, talking to people in the business at events and shows, and after about the same amount of time as it takes to get a degree, you have learned the answer yourself.

 

[ThisBass]

One answer is to get a degree in engineering and/or acoustics, but that leaves one with between 50~100K of debt, then you still have to find a job in that field to pay it off.

That's the way I did by myself.
And I'm sure it's all along the way much more easy to ask a question to anybody instead of answering the same question by yourself.
However sometimes an ananswer may be right or wrong just at the same time. Sometimes it depends on boundary conditions if an answer fits personal needs or not. If boundary conditions are unknown means most of the time the question itself is incomplete.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

A popular question the beginners always ask is "Why does my home stereo go 20Hz~20kHz, but my bass cab craps out at 50Hz?"

That was me, four years ago.

Or you can research the heck out of the topic like I did by reading, asking, more reading, more asking, designing/experimenting/building, talking to people in the business at events and shows, and after about the same amount of time as it takes to get a degree, you have learned the answer yourself.

This was how I did it.

 

[PatentNonsense]

I'm coming from a pipe organ background, and I guess that has colored my view that OF COURSE there are lots of interesting notes below the piano. An organ with an honest 32' rank will slap you in the face - and that's not a metaphor. Our ears get less sensitive at the lowest frequencies, and our pitch discrimination gets worse - but that bottom octave can say things that no other musical voice can. Granted, the message may not be "party time" - more like "voice of God" or "Om mani padme hum" - but it's a color I want to have on my palette.

That said: OF COURSE I want to have the fundamental if I'm going to play the note - otherwise why not just high-pass-filter everything to cut off all notes below 82Hz?? I haven't found the $10K or so to buy the Danley cab on my GAS list, but that doesn't mean it's useless. None of us have infinite money, but let's stop making excuses.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

One of the challenges with live music is that it is always in a new environment. Some good, most no-so-good. And the lower the note, the longer the wave. And the longer the wave, the more problematic it becomes as it interacts with room nodes. There will be an increase of areas in the room with too much bass, and almost no bass.

Things like pipe organs, home theater, and hi-fi systems are in fixed locations, and the room itself can often be tweaked to mitigate any of these deficiencies.

Also, when a hi-fi or home theater system capable of low frequencies is placed in a home theater room, a living room, den, etc., they are designed to have an optimized listening area. Not so in a bar, theater, etc. Those systems are engineered to provide a similar sound experience everywhere, but at the expense of sonic perfection.

 

[Passinwind]

That said: OF COURSE I want to have the fundamental if I'm going to play the note - otherwise why not just high-pass-filter everything to cut off all notes below 82Hz??

Because you need the proper harmonic series kept intact to give correct pitch cues to the very low notes. Take a look at how the MaxxBass plugin works, for example. This has been well understood at least since rock music first came on AM radio, arguably a few decades before that even.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Because you need the proper harmonic series kept intact to give correct pitch cues to the very low notes. Take a look at how the MaxxBass plugin works, for example. This has been well understood at least since rock music first came on AM radio, arguably a few decades before that even.

......or anything Bose.......

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Find a copy of Flim and the BBs recording "Bicycle". It was the demo at many hi-fi stores back in the 1980s, partially for the extremely low bass notes and how clear and loud they were. Wore my copy out but I believe you can download it. I believe the lows go down to F# (not sure though).

I think it was "Tricycle".

Thanks for the info on the low notes, I didn't know what they were.

Regarding the fEARful, they are not designed to be a subwoofer. They are designed to be a bass cab. I now the Qts is a bit high on the 3015LF, but that is easily controllable with my FDeck variable HPF. Greenboy's design goal was F#0 which was all I was pointing out earlier. Not many other bass cabs out there can make that claim. fEARful, FEARLESS, Audiokinesis, BigE/MAS, and Acme come to mind.

I only have one production cab that can claim extension to 46 Hz (-3 dB), which is the first overtone of F#0. I'm slowly working on an experimental cab that could theoretically be tuned to deliver 23 Hz (-3 dB) with EQ.