ok, fair enough. I understand your reasoning. I assumed the worldwide king was a P, but I guess my assumption may be another example of how we can easily make broad generalizations based on the limits of our cultural experiences (geographical, as well as stylistic).
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Why did the J never dethrone the P?
- Thread starter JazzyJacuzzi
- Start date
ok, fair enough. I understand your reasoning. I assumed the worldwide king was a P, but I guess my assumption may be another example of how we can easily make broad generalizations based on the limits of our cultural experiences (geographical, as well as stylistic).
Forgive the slight digression, but I thought it worth mentioning...
I had a very productive email exchange ( over several weeks ) with Carol back in the late 90's, during which I asked her about her preference for Precision basses in the studio. If my memory serves me correctly, she replied with words to the effect that the Jazz "lacked balls", leaving me with the impression that she did not like the sound of jazz basses at all. She also told me something that I found very interesting; i.e. that basses were just tools to her and that she traded them in when the strings wore out. She was so busy doing studio dates, she literally did not have time to change strings...
In the 2000's Bass Player Mag had reported more companies by that time were building far more J's than P's, and that more companies offered more variations of the J.
Did it make a nostalgic come back? In my opinion, sure, it made a somewhat comeback, but still more models of J's I see out there.
Did it make a nostalgic come back? In my opinion, sure, it made a somewhat comeback, but still more models of J's I see out there.
Maybe the P is the king of good songs only.
I heard that somewhere, I’m just passing it on so it can be corrected.
I heard that somewhere, I’m just passing it on so it can be corrected.
FAULY THINKING - anecdotal and unsupported (except for the flats sales percentage)
Ahem. I wasn't trying to promote any particular stance - If you red my posts, I'm telling folks that what we have so far is hearsay and anecdotal; we can't make judgements from what we have - including what I've put forth. What point do you think I was trying to make? I think if you re-read my posts, you might not be so "bold".
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
I have some room for warning points, my last ones expired a few weeks ago.
I love the biases that I find here... Strong opinions... great to read and know.
I read long ago that the Jazz Bass was never intended to be an upgrade or update to the Precision. It was intended to be a bass companion to the Jazzmaster guitar. Part of their then new series of dual pickup double offset body guitars. Thus the name, body shape, slimmer neck shape, and dual pickups.
And yeah. I play more comfortably and therefore faster on my P than I did on any of the various Fender Jazzes that I've owned. "Faster neck" just depends upon what shapes are most comfortable for your hands.
Whatever spins your wheels, go with it.
Whilst the concept of the Jazz being king is correct, there are so many builders refining the version.
It terms of Fender made P's and J's it might be closer, but outside, Jazzes are built in numbers but have better pre's pickups and hardware.
(I actually think pickups is Fender strong area, IME)
Builders make wider necks, more frets and it isnt hard to find better variations.
I have 3 builds that might be considered boutique or custom and all are 'better' than my Fender CS.
But the CS has been my main gigger for a fair while.
I expect it to get relegated soon though.
So Jazz over P for me although I did demo extensively a PJ recently. Its just that I get the P element I want from a Jazz and dont need a full on P.
It terms of Fender made P's and J's it might be closer, but outside, Jazzes are built in numbers but have better pre's pickups and hardware.
(I actually think pickups is Fender strong area, IME)
Builders make wider necks, more frets and it isnt hard to find better variations.
I have 3 builds that might be considered boutique or custom and all are 'better' than my Fender CS.
But the CS has been my main gigger for a fair while.
I expect it to get relegated soon though.
So Jazz over P for me although I did demo extensively a PJ recently. Its just that I get the P element I want from a Jazz and dont need a full on P.
Completely different beasts, none of them can dethrone the other imho.
I have, use and love both with all my heart but prefer the J because it fits my style better. Imho, it's more comfortable to play, more versatile, more interesting and definitely more exciting.
That said, the P wins in terms of "plug and play" ability hands down. It is as simple and powerful as it gets. Nothing to worry about, just two knobs and a fat, nice tone that blends with pretty much any style.
Since I'm a multi-instrumentalist (guitar, bass, drums) and I can't have too much stuff I decided to keep just one instrument for each category so I'll probably sell one of my two basses which are a P and a J. So... I'll sell the P which is even a better quality instrument compared to the J, but I like the J better.
I have, use and love both with all my heart but prefer the J because it fits my style better. Imho, it's more comfortable to play, more versatile, more interesting and definitely more exciting.
That said, the P wins in terms of "plug and play" ability hands down. It is as simple and powerful as it gets. Nothing to worry about, just two knobs and a fat, nice tone that blends with pretty much any style.
Since I'm a multi-instrumentalist (guitar, bass, drums) and I can't have too much stuff I decided to keep just one instrument for each category so I'll probably sell one of my two basses which are a P and a J. So... I'll sell the P which is even a better quality instrument compared to the J, but I like the J better.
With all this discussion of Ps vs Js are we assuming a "standard" width-at-nut for a Jazz to be 1.5"/38mm and a Precision to be 1-5/8"/42.5mm?
Lots of PJ threads on TB lately too. Is there a "standard" width-at-nut "assumption" for a PJ ? Seems to me it would be as big a consideration for a hybrid of a P&J (for definitely the feel and for also for it's likely effect on the tone) as the discussion of the advantages and possible disadvantages of the hybrid pickup pairing.
Part of this could be that flats last much, much longer than rounds, though that taken into account, there’s probably still wayyy more rounds players.
But on topic there are 2609 instruments that come up when you search Precision Bass on reverb (25810 sold listings), 4102 Jazz basses (29032 sold), 591 Musicman basses (5066 sold), and 1 rebel bass (8 sold). I didn’t filter by brand, so many of the aftermarket basses should be somewhere in there. If we stick to fender, it’s 1947 (20441) and 2955 (22557) respectively.
Completely unscientific, useless, yet somehow intriguing information.
Leaving the "P vs. JB" aside for a moment, as I've already stated my position on the subject; about the "Flats" thing. If I use strings on my bass that tend to go dead/dull/I don't like them anymore in, say, a month? That's 12 sets of strings a year. Compared to a set of strings that take, oh, how about 13 years to go dead? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which strings are the biggest seller. Or, which strings make the manufacturers squeal with joy when you come in to the music store once a month. Trumpeting the sales figures of a product that has to be replaced frequently, as a mark of superiority, kinda smells like sales propaganda to me. Since I bought my first bass in 1988, I've had to replace just one set of flats because they died. The medium scale La Bella 760FLs on an Epiphone EA-260 took 13 years to die. I can make rounds last a long time, due to clean dry hands and playing style, but 12-14 months is about the record for me. So, even making rounds last that long is... not a hell of a long life, compared to those La Bella flats. Which is one of the reasons 23 out of my 24 basses don't wear rounds...
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Over the decades i owned lots of jazz basses and jags, never a p. I always liked the p tone but i have small hands. Fast forward 45 years, i now play shortscales exclusively and my main player is a birdsong short bass, its basically a high end shortscale p bass!
She did most of the work she is famous for on a PBass. But she also stated that the PBass has some inherent flaws to its design. She was instrumental in the design of the Gibson ( Grabber I think) , with the sliding pickup position. But says they could never get it quite right no matter where they placed the pickup.
Carol also recorded with and endorsed MusicMan StingRay when they first came on the market.
She has stuck with the Ibanez for quite a while. It probably is more comfortable to play, well constructed , and gives the sounds she wants. She still tapes the foam over the strings near the bridge and uses her picks and TI Flats.
