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Why do people even pay attention to the "specs?"

#41
The problem with specs is that often one or more crucial ones is missing but the consumer will put his faith in the remainder anyway, and he'll "divine" the missing ones in order to achieve some conclusive (but probably inaccurate) picture in his mind. The musical instrument amp world basically has no reliable specs whatsoever. I think you can predict in a very gross sense an amp's power class by, for example, looking at a schematic, counting output devices, weighing the thing if it uses a conventional power supply, and so on. You can take that information and correlate that with the amp's specs and look for something fishy. For example, an amp rated at 750 watts at two ohms but having only four TO-3 output devices on a finned but non-fan-cooled heat sink would definitely raise the :eyebrow: flag in my mind. Another example would be an old SVT -- you wouldn't need to see a spec sheet at all to know you were dealing with a very serious piece of gear, one that could probably sub as an AC welder if the Lincoln out in the garage crapped out on you.

So, I think there has to be a combination of specs, circuit details, and user feedback to get the whole pre-purchase picture.
 
#42
Fuzzbass said:
We'll get better specs if we educate ourselves and penalize the companies who fudge, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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I'm doing my part; companies with inaccurate or misleading specs won't get any of my business.

Similarly, companies without transferable warranties will get no more of my business.

Unfortunately, that's a pretty small chunk of the market ;)
 
#44
3dB is not the smallest increment the human can hear. 3dB is 100% rise in volume, no joke.

As for amp ratings, take them in stride. RMS is an average power rating while providing musical information powering the speakers. Max power refers to the amps ability to play whatever information at a peak, a quick jolt. Speakers more than decide your overall volume. If you have a very efficiant cabinet, with many drivers, and substantial power, you will be loud. If you have an inefficiant cab, hat requires a metric a$$ load of power to operate, and an amp only capable of doing that for short amounts of time, you will not be loud, and in fact, you could damage your cab, amp or both.

Good rule of thumb is this. Find an efficiant cab, with enough drivers. Get an amplifier that is designed to push 3/4 the power at max power. So if you have a 1000 watt cab, get a 750 watt head. The head can play 750 watts for short peaks, but usually plays around 350 to 500 all the time. The speakers are able to handle the juice, rated at 500 rms, and they are efficiant enough to produce tone for your ears.
 
#46
kaputsport said:
3dB is not the smallest increment the human can hear. 3dB is 100% rise in volume, no joke.
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This is wrong; 3db is a doubling in power, or speaker area, but not perceived volume. 10db is closer to a perceived doubling in volume (although it requires a 10x increase in power).

There is also something regarding small volume differences being more apparent at high volumes but I can't recall the specifics.
 
#47
#48
First off, it is DECIBELS.

Second, the specs tell me what I can expect in the amp.

Say I bought an amp, but didn't pay attention to the specs. I try it at a gig with no PA, but I can't hear myself. I think it is the fault of the amp. Then I buy another amp, use it at another gig, and then I can hear myself. Obviously, it isn't the amps problem. I look at the specs and think 'Oh wow, the second amp was 500 more watts than the first amp. No wonder why it was louder and I could hear myself.'

Specs are important, silly.
 
#49
Very good post, somedumbguy.

Sometimes people get wrapped around the axle a little too much around here.

Specs are important to reference/establish a baseline, capabilities, etc. Good to know and helpful.

Play the bass.
That's all I have to say right now.
 
#51
I think people pay attention to specs (especially here) mainly for two reasons:

1. This is an internet forum. Since there are no actual basses and amps here, it consists mostly of words. Adjectives such as loud, quiet, good or bad tone, growl, grind, clean, sterile and so on end up becoming largely subjective. Specs introduce some form of objective measurement.

2. This is a niche internet forum. There is only so much stuff to discuss related to bass amplification. People end up talking about the minutae of amps which is basically specs. :D
 
#53
The op is neither right or wrong, from an overall perspective. Sure, ears tell you the truth, but knowing what it is you're shopping for is just as important. So, if I'm looking for something to gig with, I'm gonna pass on low-wattage amps right from the get-go, and focus my attention on bigger wattage amps, and more importantly, never skimp on your (my) speakers.
 
#55
rpsands said:
Speaker sensitivity (including the sensitivity boosts you get by adding more speakers) is as or more important than amplifier wattage once you get past a certain point.

From 1 to 256 watts, you add approximately 21db of volume. From 256 to 512 watts you add 3db of volume.

Once you get around 200+ watts, you should start thinking "Is my speaker setup sensitive enough? Do I have enough cabs?" before you start worrying about wattage, IMHO.
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Combined with a dose of this....

Start from 1 watt and start x10 a couple times and you're in the ballpark. Add into the equation watts you don't need are called "clean headroom". Then figure most of us aren't using nearly all the watts we have, the extra are to handle transient spikes, not clip the amp, etc.

If your car needs 80 horsepower to do what you need it to do, it wouldn't make very much sense to buy an 80 horsepower car. It would be running full blast all the time, wouldn't be very efficient, wouldn't last very long and wouldn't be a very nice ride while it did work.

If you didn't pay attention to specs, you'd end up with a piece of crap car that broke down all the time.

Specs are easier to ignore for people who don't want to put in a little time and effort to educate themselves about them.

Good points also in the fact that a lot of spec's accuracy are suspect and in the fact that your ear is the final judge.
 
#57
Dunno... specs are OK, I guess, they make marketing departments really happy if yours are "better" than the competition.......

And they have their uses....... if you are looking for a head to give you good stage volume in a loud band with a 4 ohm cabinet..... Well then you look to make sure the head puts out several hundred watts, at least... more if SS, less if tube..... You can scratch everything SS below maybe 250W, no 50W amps need apply....

After that, it's probably pretty much about 'can I get a good sound?" Knobs etc, what they do and how much they do where is less important than "if I turn this does it do something good?"

if you want a DI, then that spec, "has one" or "doesn't have one", is likely to be important.....

But getting hung up on any specs beyond those that qualify it as the general kind of thing you want, is probably just providing employment for the marketing "suits"........ it won't make your sound a bit better.
 
#58
Jerrold Tiers said:
...And they have their uses....... if you are looking for a head to give you good stage volume in a loud band with a 4 ohm cabinet..... Well then you look to make sure the head puts out several hundred watts, at least... more if SS, less if tube..... You can scratch everything SS below maybe 250W, no 50W amps need apply....

After that, it's probably pretty much about 'can I get a good sound?" Knobs etc, what they do and how much they do where is less important than "if I turn this does it do something good?"

if you want a DI, then that spec, "has one" or "doesn't have one", is likely to be important.....

But getting hung up on any specs beyond those that qualify it as the general kind of thing you want, is probably just providing employment for the marketing "suits"........ it won't make your sound a bit better.
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+1 Specs are only good for informing you about the gear's features and general power ratings. After that, no amount of technobabble or marketing hype has the ability to tell you if you will actually like the sound of that gear or not. IMO, you are much better off reading the forums here on TB. Other player's real life experiences with a piece of equipment are far more valuable to you than any amount of manufacturer specs.
 
#59
R Baer said:
+1 Specs are only good for informing you about the gear's features and general power ratings. After that, no amount of technobabble or marketing hype has the ability to tell you if you will actually like the sound of that gear or not. IMO, you are much better off reading the forums here on TB. Other player's real life experiences with a piece of equipment are far more valuable to you than any amount of manufacturer specs.
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you know, when i play gear that's talked about on here in an intelligent manner by people who have actually played it, i often find that my feelings about the gear are almost identical. i'm to the point now where i almost trust talkbass consensus enough to buy that way ;)
 
#60
JimmyM said:
you know, when i play gear that's talked about on here in an intelligent manner by people who have actually played it, i often find that my feelings about the gear are almost identical. i'm to the point now where i almost trust talkbass consensus enough to buy that way ;)
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Yeah I agree, but the key here is..."talked about on here in an intelligent manner".

For me, part of the intelligent discussion involves specs to some degree. Knowing that a cab is of a certain size, what speakers are in it and what the actual response of the cab is puts the comments into a better perspective.

Simply oohing and ahhing about a recent purchase doesn't do much for me. Everyone loves their new purchase (myself included), so when I read a post by someone who intelligently and objectively reviews equipment and adds enough specs to put their comments in perspective I appreciate and understand the review much more.
 

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