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Why do the session legends all use P basses? (SBL Video Discussion)

#161
I think 'gotta have a Precision' for this stuff is a bit overblown, but certainly not a cliché.

When you talk about what a Will Lee (a studio vet with thousands of credits) or artists like Geddy (who damn well is going to use what he wants, it's HIS nickel) use, that's a lot different thing than a lot of guys who aren't famous knocking out whatever work is there, and is dependent of producers and engineers for call backs and more employment. Disappoint those guys or blow in there with the 'I-know-everything' mindset, they'll get out the big red NEXT stamp for your rear end and call the next guy, next time.

A bass that records well may or may not be a great live bass, and certainly the opposite is true, if you have the ears and the experience.

A professional studio is an engineered, unforgiving environment. Show up with an axe that the setup and your technique gets a lot of noise off the frets or other hardware, some gimpy preamp that hums or whines that you never heard on a loud stage or makes it impossible for them to get a quick solid sound, a really bright axe with brand new stainless strings, or a dead sounding axe with years old flatwounds, there are any number of traps in a studio that you never approach in a live setting.

Recording a bass, no amp, straight down the wire to a direct box and into the console sounds far different than what a lot of guys are used to. Until you know what works and what doesn't, that's why a lot of times there's an old PBass in the corner: They KNOW that one works just fine when the red light goes on and the 'Time Is Money Meter' starts inching towards the redline.
 
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#162
Tony Levin uses a stingray

2Tony%20Levinx.jpg
 
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#164
JW56789 said:
I think 'gotta have a Precision' for this stuff is a bit overblown, but certainly not a cliché.

When you talk about what a Will Lee (a studio vet with thousands of credits) or artists like Geddy (who damn well is going to use what he wants, it's HIS nickel) use, that's a lot different thing than a lot of guys who aren't famous knocking out whatever work is there, and is dependent of producers and engineers for call backs and more employment. Disappoint those guys or blow in there with the 'I-know-everything' mindset, they'll get out the big red NEXT stamp for your rear end and call the next guy, next time.

A bass that records well may or may not be a great live bass, and certainly the opposite is true, if you have the ears and the experience.

A professional studio is an engineered, unforgiving environment. Show up with an axe that the setup and your technique gets a lot of noise off the frets or other hardware, some gimpy preamp that hums or whines that you never heard on a loud stage or makes it impossible for them to get a quick solid sound, a really bright axe with brand new stainless strings, or a dead sounding axe with years old flatwounds, there are any number of traps in a studio that you never approach in a live setting.

Recording a bass, no amp, straight down the wire to a direct box and into the console sounds far different than what a lot of guys are used to. Until you know what works and what doesn't, that's why a lot of times there's an old PBass in the corner: They KNOW that one works just fine when the red light goes on and the 'Time Is Money Meter' starts inching towards the redline.
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Spot on. One thing about Precisions is that they are comparatively forgiving. On the last recording I did of my own material I brought in the basses that I use live (all high-end active basses with SS strings that, to me, sound great on stage). That was a mistake. I ended up spending way too much time sitting with the engineer and cleaning up unwanted fret noise and minor inconsistencies that I'm convinced would not have shown up had I been using a passive P or J with different strings. So, because I made a thoughtless decision about which basses to use (I should have known better) I wasted a whole bunch of time and money fixing up the sound of the bass. The next time I went into a recording session I brought my Fender Jazz with flats. :D
 
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#166
eqvolvorama said:
Even the best sound engineers I know work under time pressure. They could probably spend 10 minutes messing around with settings to get your Alembic sounding like heaven, but they’d just as well spend 10 seconds on your P Bass and apply the savings towards drum mic setup.

Time is money and everyone likes money. Precision Basses save time.
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Which means lowest common denominator.
 
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#167
A lot of what bass players like to hear out of an instrument isn’t always what works the best in popular genres. The moment I stopped trying to have my tone “cut through the mix,” and focused on the song itself, and what the mix needed, I was infinitely happier and more fulfilled. Granted, I’m just playing silly rock music, but still. It’s not about me, and unless you’re doing a bass-centric record, it’s not about you, either.

All that being said, I’ve been playing a Jazz with rounds for my current project, but the meat and potatoes mentality holds true.
 
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#169
eqvolvorama said:
Let’s not let absolutes get in the way here. Of course Stanley Clarke can play whatever he wants. But that doesn’t mean anyone can. Or should.

I used to run sound for bands. If Stanley Clarke was playing, he’d have all day to get his sound right. He’s Stanley Clarke. Of course, he’d likely have several hours on stage alone if he wanted it.

If I was running sound for a local band opening for the opener, and I had ten minutes to do sound check, I don’t want to waste time getting used to your 18V six string coffee table. I really don’t. It’s far more important to convince the guitarist to turn down and get the monitors right for the singer so he/she doesn’t go out of tune. The audience doesn’t care about the bass nearly as much. If my time is limited, I don’t either. And if you’re paying for my time, neither should you.

I can only imagine recording engineers feel the same way. Does this mean I’m a mediocre sound engineer. Sure, fine. I probably am. But unless you can afford Bob Clearmountain, I’m what you have. And I know I can make a P Bass through a SansAmp sound amazing any day of the week.
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But you’re not a famous sound engineer, so if you want to dictate to the talent you can pound sand. The butts came to the seats to hear them, not you.

Sound engineers _never_ trump talent.
_Never_.
 
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#170
Max Blasto said:
So has Gene Simmons. He doesn’t play P Basses. So your point is basically... nothing.
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Gene Simmons is a session bassist? Really?

Last time I checked the topic of the thread and video posted were about session bassists, but seems like you guys keep ignoring that integral part of this thread and for whatever reason seem to have your boutique, non-p-bass underoos in a nasty bunch and keep listing players who aren't session bassists as exceptions to the rule. Also, as others have mentioned many times now, nobody here is dealing with 100% absolutes, just saying more often than not...

And nice try insulting engineers and producers who simply prefer certain instruments over the ones you personally play. And listing local engineers and guys who work out of their basement aren't what we're talking about here. We're talking about the real professionals, people who are on another level than 99.9% of us here. No need to get offended, just realize we're not talking about YOU, we're talking about the real professionals.
 
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#171
Max Blasto said:
But you’re not a famous sound engineer, so if you want to dictate to the talent you can pound sand. The butts came to the seats to hear them, not you.

Sound engineers _never_ trump talent.
_Never_.
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Sound engineers can also make or break a live act. I don't think anyone is saying they trump talent, but they do allow the talent to sound their best, and when an artist has confidence in, and knows his engineer is on it and knows what he's doing, the talent can relax and focus on his performance, instead of worrying if he will sound good or not for the crowd.
 
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#172
I haven't read many of the 166 earlier posts but what the OPs video said in the opening was exactly my experience years ago.

I took out my Warwick Thumb and plugged in and the sound engineer said "Nice, would you mind trying our bass ( vintage P Bass with flatwounds). "Don't touch the any of the settings", "Play lighter". And that was it for every recording I played for that leader over a two month period (maybe 10 days of work).

In all fairness, some of my work was redoing earlier stuff, so reusing the stock gear made it easier.

You want to work, you show up on time, don't ask too many questions and don't make waves. If they were happy, I was happy.

EDIT. Years later, the same leader asked me to use my cheap Epi T Bird with active electronics into their SVT . But it was a bass I used live with him earlier that week.
 
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#177
IamGroot said:
I haven't read many of the 166 earlier posts but what the OPs video said in the opening was exactly my experience years ago.

I took out my Warwick Thumb and plugged in and the sound engineer said "Nice, would you mind trying our bass ( vintage P Bass with flatwounds). "Don't touch the any of the settings", "Play lighter". And that was it for every recording I played for that leader over a two month period (maybe 10 days of work).
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In other words, "do not create unnecessary extra work". That's really all it is.
 
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#178
Vinnie Boombatz said:
Gene Simmons is a session bassist? Really?

Last time I checked the topic of the thread and video posted were about session bassists, but seems like you guys keep ignoring that integral part of this thread and for whatever reason seem to have your boutique, non-p-bass underoos in a nasty bunch and keep listing players who aren't session bassists as exceptions to the rule. Also, as others have mentioned many times now, nobody here is dealing with 100% absolutes, just saying more often than not...

And nice try insulting engineers and producers who simply prefer certain instruments over the ones you personally play. And listing local engineers and guys who work out of there basement aren't what we're talking about here. We're talking about the real professionals, people who are on another level than 99.9% of us here. No need to get offended, just realize we're not talking about YOU, we're talking about the real professionals.
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I’m speaking to your ad hominem reasoning, which indicates you don’t have a point. Ol’ Gene has recorded multiple studio albums which mean he _is_ a recording artist. Doesn’t matter if You like the material.

The engineer works for me, not the other way around. Not the same for you? Ok. But that means you’re not a working musician. That’s ok, there’s room for all kinds of musicians here. As for insulting engineers, no I’m not. But they work for me and all of the know how to record a Rick vs a Presicion.

Oh, I’m sorry, you’re talking about real professionals? Funny, my tax return says I’m a professional musician. Not good enough for you? Ok. I’ll work harder. But I’m drinking fine wine and my wife is pretty stoked on her Xmas presents so I might have to sit here and think about why your opinion matters.

Taking another sip...
 
#179
Vinnie Boombatz said:
Sound engineers can also make or break a live act. I don't think anyone is saying they trump talent, but they do allow the talent to sound their best, and when an artist has confidence in, and knows his engineer is on it and knows what he's doing, the talent can relax and focus on his performance, instead of worrying if he will sound good or not for the crowd.
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Exactly. Which means the artist doesn’t need a P bass to sound good because the sound engineer is a pro just like the guy playing a Gibson Thunderbird.
 

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