Why Do We Keep Coming Back to the P-Bass?

[Prodigus Filius]

I would take this one here before many F….. basses having seen and heard one in person !

A rare species

 

[MrAB4003]

There was a guy a million years ago called .... Chris Squire.

Chris Squire (RIP) is one of the greatest bassists to ever clank! There's no denying that.

But if you want to go back into earlier rock music, I would say that John Entwistle (RIP) was the first to clank. Boris the Spider is one example from 1966 - predating Yes and Chris Squire! He also invented modern death growls on that song.


As a Rickenbacker bassist, fan, and lover, I'm fully aware about the clanky greatness that comes from those basses. But that's for another thread. I'm talking about a specific bass tone that comes from active EMG P pickups (that's why I brought it up in this thread). The tone can be done with EMG J pickups too, but this is a P Bass thread.

This tone was first pioneered by DD Verni in 1988 when he switched from his Rickenbacker 4001 to his BC Rich with two active P pickups. "The Clank", as DD invented, is like a Rickenbacker 4003's bridge pickup on steroids. It's next level aggressive and nobody sounded like that before him in metal. It also influenced a plethora of metal bassists to come. Here's an example:

 

[Pier_]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

sure, but in interviews he says that he record le bass lines of his songs (not the melodic/solo parts) with a Precision with old big flats, and live he only plays his modern Fodera.
he says this in interviews, it's not about "what you're talking about", he's talking about it

now, it's clear that our references are what we use to value instruments, but despite some "soloist", you didn't mention session players.

however, I'm the first that uses different basses, my main giggin one is a Manson JPJ Signature, neckthrough maple neck, mahogany body, EMG 35P and 35TW with bass/treble eq, and I use it for most gigs because it works better direct to the PA, but when I enter a studio or send a recorded track, they usually ask me the Precision.

sometimes I get to use other instruments if I already listened to the song, and for example years ago I recorded an album and I wanted to use my Yamaha Attitude II with the NECK pickup soloed (the humbucker), because it was, for me, the right sound.

I had to record three tracks:

one with the humbucker
one with the split coil
one with a Precision

all because they couldn't accept the fact that I identified the right sound on a thing so different (an humbucker at the end of the neck, near the 21th fret).

ah, another bass I regularly use in recordings is the Hofner 500/1 with flatwounds, it's one of the preferred basses in recordings.

obviously I don't work in anything like metal or similar, it's mostly pop, rock, songrwiting, usually with clean bass recorded directly.

but consider that here in Europe, except for some northern Europe states, metal and rock/hard rock is something completely missing.

I think if more bass players tried a 1.75 nut width bass neck that was thin front to back they would be surprised how comfortable they are.

this can be true for some, but not others. I can't stand thin necks. I can stand every nut width, from 45mm of my Aria SB1000 to the 38mm of a Jazz, but the neck profile must be huge, because my hands don't work well with thin profiles, it creates an uncomfortable position between the thumb and the other fingers.

There was a guy a million years ago called .... Chris Squire.

we are forgetting John Entwistle, smashing roundwounds agains the frets since the 60's...

 

[chris_b]

We keep coming back to the P bass "thing" because. . . . hold on, when did we ever leave? IMO P basses never went away.

 

[58kites]

I'm talking about a specific bass tone that comes from active EMG P pickups (that's why I brought it up in this thread). The tone can be done with EMG J pickups too, but this is a P Bass thread.

This tone was first pioneered by DD Verni in 1988 when he switched from his Rickenbacker 4001 to his BC Rich with two active P pickups. "The Clank", as DD invented, is like a Rickenbacker 4003's bridge pickup on steroids. It's next level aggressive and nobody sounded like that before him in metal. It also influenced a plethora of metal bassists to come.

The EMG active P pickup was released in 1979. Lots of players started using them before 1988.
Le Sklar famously had a bass with two sets of EMG P's in it before everyone else.
There had been clanky sounding bass tones recorded in the 60's, 70's, 80's.
DD Verni created the "DD Verni EMG clank sound" which may have been copied in the metal genre but clank has been around since the 60's as noted by others here.

 

[58kites]

this can be true for some, but not others. I can't stand thin necks. I can stand every nut width, from 45mm of my Aria SB1000 to the 38mm of a Jazz, but the neck profile must be huge, because my hands don't work well with thin profiles, it creates an uncomfortable position between the thumb and the other fingers.

I guess what I should have said was... I found out that small hands don't all need to play toothpick necks.
As many do, I thought a 1.5 nut width Jazzy neck was the only way to go for me...until I stumbled across a wide/shallow neck on a Yamaha Attitude Custom and it is the fastest/easiest neck I've ever touched. Then I found out that Fender had that neck profile available (D profile I think) for their Precision maybe in the early 60's. Lakland has it on some of their basses and Dan Lakin also used that neck profile on his D Lakin basses. I found out that all wider nut necks are not necessarily baseball bats, and that wider string spacing at the nut can be awesome.

 

[Pier_]

guess what I should have said was... I found out that small hands don't all need to play toothpick necks.

I'm sorry, I red the inches measurements in a wrong way I'm on your side!

 

[58kites]

I'm sorry, I read the inches measurements in a wrong way I'm on your side!

I think your Attitude II has the wide nut but is also a thick front to back baseball bat neck. Billy's original Fender "wife" Precision had a Telecaster Bass neck on it which I think was a wide/thick neck. Billy is 6' 2" with tall guy fingers/hands. Not sure why the Attitude Custom had a shallower front to back profile, they only made that version in 1990-1991 before discontinuing it. Same deal with the Attitude Deluxe.

 

[YamahaBasses]

Hey everyone,

First-time poster here, long-time lurker. I’ve been playing for a while, tried a bunch of different basses over the years, active, passive, 5-string, short scale, modern boutique builds, but somehow, I always find myself coming back to a plain old Precision Bass.


There’s something about that simplicity. One pickup. One tone knob. But the sound? Massive. Sits in the mix like it was born there. No frills, just punch.


So here’s my question for you all:
What is it about the P-Bass that keeps it relevant decade after decade — even with so many high-tech options out there?


Thanks,
Paleet

There are probably dozens of reasons, but I can speak for myself and say it's the simplicity and fat neck. For me, these have become two of the most important factors in a bass.

 

[crazycloud]

Are we talking coming back to a Fender Precision bass here, or any bass with just one V and T knob and the iconic split coil pickup?
Chasing the sound right? Not the look I guess.
So you’d be coming back to a pbass sound, despite the obvious design differences compared to a Fender Precision with one of these. Correcto Mundo?View attachment 7342767

I have one of these I'm 'resto-modding' with Hipshot hardware as the original bridge was damaged and 3 of the tuners failed.

 

[ectoflanger]

Well I certainly would if I were going to do this cover-

 

[Pier_]

Well I certainly would if I were going to do this cover-

if I'm not wrong, this is recorded with a Jazz with flatwounds

but is also a thick front to back baseball bat neck.

yes, the Attitude is wide and fat, also with high and wide frets, and for me is a joy to play, one of the most comfortable basses I've ever had.
second is the Custom Shop 51 (44,5mm nut and even head-to-heel profile), followed by the Aria SB1000 (45mm nut, enormous neck profile).

the 60's Precision usually have a slim profile, so for a classic split coil I went for a '71 Precision, B-neck, which has a huge profile and medium nut.

 

[Green Lantern]

PJ setup absolutely does not count. Once you add a second pickup to a Precision, it has changed.

Well on a PJ you can bypass the J pickup if you want and just use the P pickup.

 

[redcutbass]

For me, it's the low mid frequency response and just the feel. I'm in a big band ensemble, one of 2 bassists (the other on upright). I was getting lost under the horns with my Jazz, which has this gorgeous woody tone (Labellas, Series wiring) that works in small ensembles. I brought my P last week to rehearsal and it was a game changer. It lifted the floor of the entire room. This is an 08 American Standard with PV63s and TI flats, so everything is really about pushing the low mids on this thing. I got a ton of great feedback from other musicians and the bandleader. It just WORKS.

 

[TheArchitect]

Is there really an unusually wide gap between the A and D strings or is than just the lense messing with the image?

 

[redcutbass]

Is there really an unusually wide gap between the A and D strings or is than just the lense messing with the image?

Good eye, a bit of both! Just did that pickup swap, looks like the string was laid across the saddle a little off after the swap. Readjusted and back to normal, thanks for noticing!

 

[pbass2]

Sweet spot, by backside. One of the most recorded basses in history is Lee Sklar's Frankenstein and both P's are reversed active EMGs and neither is where Leo designated it should be. Obviously all those recording engineers had no problem getting it to fit into the mixes.

Interestingly, lots of famous Sklar tracks are actually his 60's Jazz (the "Hippy" bass he did all the carving on, but stock electronics). Tracks like "Doctor My Eyes", etc. He has said in interviews that he never cared for pbasses, so it makes sense that the Franken bass is more Jazz-ish in it's pu placement. Even now with his Dingwall he seems to be going for something Jazz-leaning tone wise (to my ears at least). Kinda funny actually, that one of the most revered and recorded session bassists of all time has typically gone with some variation on a Jazz sound, vs a P. Go figure

 

[NotColinGrigson]

I’ve never really been a fan of j type pups. I like the profile of the j neck, but that’s where it ends for me with j basses.
Having said that I love a clubby neck as well. My Harris sig ( blue MIJ model ) has the fattest neck I’ve found on a p and I love it, but my 04 USA has a much shallower profile, and I love that as well lol.
IMO the precision pups and positioning are perfect. I’ve not found an environment where a p bass doesn’t work.
I’ve always said to myself that the p bass is precisely the right sound for bass ( for me anyways)

 

[crazycloud]

so it makes sense that the Franken bass is more Jazz-ish in it's pu placement.

The bridge PU, sort of for E/A at least, but the neck, no.

 

[tvbop]

Interestingly, lots of famous Sklar tracks are actually his 60's Jazz

I sure would love to know what he used to record "Your Smilin Face" on.