Why does mordern pop music suck?

[Ric5]

There is a lot of good music made in the last 20 years ... but all of what I would call good is classified as alternative ...

Mainstream pop has nothing to offer that I would be interested in. I also don't like the mainstream media or mainstream politics or mainstream religion or mainstream medicine ...

I am an alternative kind of guy

 

[bass12]

@wishforbass

Sorry to burst your bubble but music never been about Art ... it was a business and still is a business. Those old classical composers did write music for money and did write music that was hip with the monarchy.

Many rich monarch did hire a composer and paid him to write music that would blow other composer and so they could brag at other monarch that his composer was the best.

You're ignoring centuries of folk music that existed and was passed down independent of anything business-related. Same thing with a lot of religious ritual music.

 

[mikewalker]

A lot of modern pop radio hurts my ears (and/or offends my finer sensibilities...) but I still take a professional interest in pop music, and I can report that I have heard a large number of 'hit songs' in the past year or two that actually have very artistic arrangements and some stellar production.

I make a point of listening very closely to every new piece I hear, and I am frankly surprised at the very high quality of work that I have heard in a lot of 'modern pop records'. Even in some records that featured repulsive lyrics and shockingly bad vocal performances. {full disclosure: in a previous life I worked as a vocal coach for pop singers}

PS: Auto-tune still makes me VERY queasy (but I will give a pass to the Cher hit, for artistic effect...)

 

[bass12]

I'd like to address to common responses:

1. There is really good music if you look for it. I agree, but if you have to look for it, it isn't pop. By Definition, pop is the music that is right there in your face everywhere you go. It is on the radio, used in commercial, piped into stores, etc. Pop is the tip of a giant iceberg of music, but that 10% of the iceberg is the part anyone really pays attention to.
2. Young people (or kids) these days....
   Stop right there!
   Every single generation since man started keeping records has complained about the younger generations. It is the oldest tropes in the world. It will take you 10 seconds to find videos on YouTube of old cranks calling the Beatles noise. Jazz has been maligned so long its hard to know when it even started. New things are going to put off older people. That's it. If this is your only argument, get over it and move on because you sound like your parents.

Part of the problem is that that not everyone here agrees on the definition of "pop". I disagree that if you have to look for something it is automatically disqualified as "pop". Something being "in your face everywhere you go" is the definition of a song that has achieved mainstream success but does that make it "pop" by definition"? And if a song that shares the same approach to song writing, the same production and the same overall aesthetic and parameters as a top 40 song is difficult to find, does that make it non-pop? There's little point in arguing some of the points in this thread when we haven't even agreed on the definition of one of the key terms...

 

[Member8675309]

Both of these songs made top 40 I believe. Although, I may be wrong about “1000 Times”. Kimbra is a low-key pop star...check out live at Sing Sing.

 

[Member8675309]

Part of the problem is that that not everyone here agrees on the definition of "pop". I disagree that if you have to look for something it is automatically disqualified as "pop". Something being "in your face everywhere you go" is the definition of a song that has achieved mainstream success but does that make it "pop" by definition"? And if a song that shares the same approach to song writing, the same production and the same overall aesthetic and parameters as a top 40 song is difficult to find, does that make it non-pop? There's little point in arguing some of the points in this thread when we haven't even agreed on what is one of the key terms...

Generally, I classify pop as popular (charting) music consumed and driven primarily by individuals of a certain age, roughly 14-25, with movements extending beyond that range being natural. I mostly consider this due to the belief backed by theory that most adults no longer actively seek out new music around age 33. As always, there are exceptions. Musicians, like us, are more likely to seek out and appreciate art in all its forms as one example, skewing the age 33 mark. As a genre, I do not consider pop music to be in the realm of Beyoncé. Pop music may, and does, branch to all genres......including (big sigh)...dreaded “bro country”. This is how I classify ‘Pop’ music. I’d love to hear others perceptions of what constitutes pop music so that we may narrow this discussion in some sort of freakin’ direction. Otherwise, it’s just generalization after generalization after generalization.

 

[Adjectives]

I just read something somewhere about the "pop-drop". A widely used framework to drive spotify streams past the monetary 30-second mark. It is where the hook(or a version of it) is hammered out in the first part of the song or intro, creating a perpetual expectation of hearing it again later. Think "The Chainsmokers".

 

[Adjectives]

Generally, I classify pop as popular music consumed primarily by individuals of a certain age, roughly 14-25, with movements extending beyond that range being natural. I mostly consider this due to the belief backed by theory that most adults no longer actively seek out new music around age 33. As always, there are exceptions. Musicians, like us, are more likely to seek out and appreciate art in all its forms as one example, skewing the age 33 mark. As a genre, I do not consider pop music to be in the realm of Beyoncé. Pop music may, and does, branch to all genres......including (big sigh)...dreaded “bro country”. This is how I classify ‘Pop’ music. I’d love to hear others perceptions of what constitutes pop music so that we may narrow this discussion in some sort of freakin’ direction. Otherwise, it’s just generalization after generalization after generalization.

Bro-core

 

[Member8675309]

Bro-core

Haha, one day....maybe. I’d take bro-core over bro-country any day of the week, night or day. I live in Tennessee, and I am so sick of bro country. I had to go to San Francisco for a memorial, and the people were legitimately astonished that we weren’t inbred hicks. I’ve had people ask if we had paved roads, and I had a student explain to me how she was horrified to move to TN because she thought we didn’t have shoe stores! The crap? Anyway, not sure how any of that relates to bro-core.

 

[Tommyc]

Don't feel too badly about it. There are no Stravinskys, Bartoks, Schoenbergs or Brittens on the classical side anymore either. Instead there is Phillip Glass, Steve Reich and just before them, the recently late, Karlheinz Stockhausen whose Helikopter- Streichquartett (Helicopter String Quartet) isn't clogging up AM radio or FM for that matter. It's probably available to hear at Youtube but.. don't do it.
To be fair John Adams isn't a bad composer, but he's already in his 70's. Probably the next phenomena in classical music composing wise won't come from Europe or America at all. Myself, I think that the creative minds that in past generations were drawn to music and art are now being drawn to technology and computer science. That's where everything creatively exciting is happening.

 

[wishforbass]

@wishforbass

Sorry to burst your bubble but music never been about Art ... it was a business and still is a business. Those old classical composers did write music for money and did write music that was hip with the monarchy.

Many rich monarch did hire a composer and paid him to write music that would blow other composer and so they could brag at other monarch that his composer was the best.

It's about region
Because at least in my region with the system and the thinking style I can surely say 90% of it was about art.
The folk music that made by Shepherd.
The local people who used it as hobby and today if we have their stuff because it came from one generation to another .
When song like this



Wrote for love of a young man and it's about 480 years old (with few changes by time ).

Or a song from South Iran .the original song is super old that at best they can say it's back to 600 years (not exact , because the lyrics wrote at 16th ),its a sea song .the rhythm is the rhythm of grabing fishing net and pulling it .(used instead of ,counting )example of the song




Final song that I use as example calls norowz ,or norouwz .

Age of this song (today song is mixing 7 song from different part of Iran country but the original ones ,each one related to a part of country ) the oldest one is about 2500 years old .the song made by people of each region to sing for new year and norowz celebration(new year ).(the instrument use added by times ,like today this year it played with sittar bass .)





This example shows music was from people and was art.maybe in your region wasn't and used as stuff for selling and money but it's not count all time .
Because some cultures had music deep inside them .
The business talk is more about music that made for kings that in count and quality had much lower quality to stay with people for years .
So at the end I still belive that music was art and it was inside people hearts.
When European music had two side .
People side that come back to old time them we have religious time that folk music got destroyed in Europe .
The new age of Europe that people who created music did it as job and made it business but was it reap music ?
And can they called father of music ,no because folk music made by generations behind them .

 

[xnewyorka]

These two videos, already eight years old, sum up the conversation very well. Warning, explicit lyrics:

 

[Timmy-Watts]

Old music was generally better Because it:
Was often written by the artist or group performing it.
Had chord changes.
Had a melody.
Had a rhyme.
Had rhythm and a groove.
Told a story.
Had dynamics.
Could be performed live.
Was played with musical instruments.

Modern pop formula:
Pretty front person.
Write 1 or 2 lines of words and repeat for 3 minutes.
A computer whiz to "write" 2 bars of "chord changes" and endlessly repeat those 2 lines of words. They don't have to mean anything or rhyme or have any pitch or rhythm.
Add a terrible sounding 2-bar repeating guitar or lead riff as an interlude.
Get a bad rapper to get high and babble something unintelligible with no rhythm so you don't have to write a second verse. They also shout out the "singer's" name at the beginning of the song. They also need to grunt or shout "woah" a few times during minute 3 of the song.
Credit 14 people with writing credits.
Play it every 45 minutes on radio stations.

There are precious few exceptions that have some qualities listed earlier. I like those.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

i think that you are wrong. people DOESN'T care about music, i know because i've done formal questions to people for stadistics and most of them doesn't care. Besides that, im trying to make a living about music and hasn't been a easy task when talking about money. But people likes to suffer (i believe that) or they just dont know how to enjoy life. Music can make life fun or intense but more important is life can have a aestetics sounding or can help people to show their feelings. BUT THEY DONT KNOW BECAUSE ALL GOES AROUND MONEY (like actual pop music).
this is all wrong. its not about money but they needed to EAT, Please.

1) We say the same thing, the consumer doesn't care anymore unlike in the past.

2) They needed to eat and have a house or somewhere to leave and cloths ... guess what ... it takes money. The Monarchs didn't care if they paid their composer/performer right, all they cared about is the bragging. They were starving musicians, often sick and died young just like todays.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

You're ignoring centuries of folk music that existed and was passed down independent of anything business-related. Same thing with a lot of religious ritual music.

Religious music was still something the Chruch ask and you couldn't say no to it for the glory of God. They got paid for it.

Folk musicians that played whatever for a beer or a penny. They had plenty of that just like today.

 

[pie_man_25]

Haha, one day....maybe. I’d take bro-core over bro-country any day of the week, night or day. I live in Tennessee, and I am so sick of bro country. I had to go to San Francisco for a memorial, and the people were legitimately astonished that we weren’t inbred hicks. I’ve had people ask if we had paved roads, and I had a student explain to me how she was horrified to move to TN because she thought we didn’t have shoe stores! The crap? Anyway, not sure how any of that relates to bro-core.

I'd take bro country. At least girls like it. The only thing I've seen at bro core shows are a bunch of immature pricks that beat on people smaller than them while bleating about brotherhood and whining about exes in the only way that reinforces their masculinity.

Of course, this is two evils we're talking about. I'm still disappointed by how many times a girl I've met wild day she loves country, and whose reply to my response of "you know what sounds good right now? A beer in the back of my truck on an old dirt road" isn't too recognize my sarcasm, but to ask if we could do that instead. So I mean, I'm not exactly fond of bro country.

 

[Member8675309]

I'd take bro country. At least girls like it. The only thing I've seen at bro core shows are a bunch of immature pricks that beat on people smaller than them while bleating about brotherhood and whining about exes in the only way that reinforces their masculinity.

Of course, this is two evils we're talking about. I'm still disappointed by how many times a girl I've met wild day she loves country, and whose reply to my response of "you know what sounds good right now? A beer in the back of my truck on an old dirt road" isn't too recognize my sarcasm, but to ask if we could do that instead. So I mean, I'm not exactly fond of bro country.

Hmmmm, yes.....good point. From a larger picture point of view.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

It's about region
Because at least in my region with the system and the thinking style I can surely say 90% of it was about art.
The folk music that made by Shepherd.
The local people who used it as hobby and today if we have their stuff because it came from one generation to another .
When song like this



Wrote for love of a young man and it's about 480 years old (with few changes by time ).

Or a song from South Iran .the original song is super old that at best they can say it's back to 600 years (not exact , because the lyrics wrote at 16th ),its a sea song .the rhythm is the rhythm of grabing fishing net and pulling it .(used instead of ,counting )example of the song




Final song that I use as example calls norowz ,or norouwz .

Age of this song (today song is mixing 7 song from different part of Iran country but the original ones ,each one related to a part of country ) the oldest one is about 2500 years old .the song made by people of each region to sing for new year and norowz celebration(new year ).(the instrument use added by times ,like today this year it played with sittar bass .)




This example shows music was from people and was art.maybe in your region wasn't and used as stuff for selling and money but it's not count all time .
Because some cultures had music deep inside them .
The business talk is more about music that made for kings that in count and quality had much lower quality to stay with people for years .
So at the end I still belive that music was art and it was inside people hearts.
When European music had two side .
People side that come back to old time them we have religious time that folk music got destroyed in Europe .
The new age of Europe that people who created music did it as job and made it business but was it reap music ?
And can they called father of music ,no because folk music made by generations behind them .

Yeah European style still have echos in our modern life.

Music was always about a ritual, love song, religious matter, about life ( since many couldn't write too keep log of their life ) or dancing ... just like today, music is about everything but the actual music.

No music was ever written just for the sake of its beauty, there is always a second motive.

 

[bluesblaster]

If your a musician and you have the opportunity to make a living at it is that not better than being a musician and working at a carwash because you need to eat and have a place to stay? you want to get paid either way.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I don't know any Mords, but if I did I'd ask, "What does it mean to be Mordern?"