Why don't more builders use fanned frets / multi-scale?

[Matthew_84]

I didn't read the whole thread, but a while back, I pondered this same thing.

I wanted a nice full B string and a non-twangy G (or maybe C) string - a multi-scale bass only made sense. Then someone made a very good point that in order to really get the benefits of it, you really need to move up and down the strings perpendicular to the crazy angle of the bridge, to keep your point of attack an equal distance from the bridge:

If you went just straight up and down like you do on a single-scale bass, then you'll be much closer to the bridge on highest pitched string than where you'd be on the lowest pitched string, and you would lose some of the benefits of a multi-scale bass.

I didn't want to have to think about plucking-hand placement every time I crossed the strings, plus I preferred to keep a single-scale bass to keep my muscle memory intact for fretless playing. So I began stringing my bass with a sort of reverse tension philosophy - the string with the highest tension would be the B string and the tension would slightly decrease with every string, and the G (or C) string would have the lowest tension. This has helped produce a much more even tone on each string, and isn't that noticeable if each string is gradual... Now I've only done this with a 4 string tuned either to BEAD or EADG, but I could still hear the difference.

One thing to note about the reverse tension idea is that depending on your pickups and fretboard radius, after you select the appropriate tensions for a gradual decrease, you may need to slightly increase the tension of the strings in the middle. If you have a five string Jazz with a 9.5" radius and flat Jazz pickups, your A string will be the furthest string from the pickups and will then have a lower volume output, if you add mass to the string (higher tension/gauge), it will help normalize it.

Yes, it may take a while to find the right strings for each bass, but thankfully a new set of strings is much cheaper than a new multi-scale bass.

 

[two fingers]

I wonder if the double bass players would have had a similar discussion about Fender basses when they first came out had the internet existed then.

Of course. In fact, many of the living legends we revere today got that way because they adapted to them early on while others refused to try.


That being said, it still doesn't make those who stuck with upright basses "wrong". They just chose to stick with what they liked. Music didn't suffer for it. We need both still to this day. Tell Edger Meyer he "needs" an electric bass....much less one with fanned frets.

 

[Nobody]

It's hard enough for everyone around here to get along without throwing fret snobbery into the mix.

It kinda seems to me that there are two camps of "fret snobs" and that the traditional camp is way bigger and snobbier. jmo

 

[blue4]

I didn't the whole thread, but a while back I pondered this same thing.

I wanted a nice full B string and a non-twangy G (or maybe C) string - a multi-scale bass only made sense. Then someone made a very good point that in order to really get the benefits of it, you really need to move up and down the strings perpendicular to the crazy angle of the bridge, to keep your point of attack and equal distance from the bridge:

If you went just straight up and down like you do on a single-scale bass, then you'll be much closer to the bridge on highest pitched string than where you'd be on the lowest pitched string, and this alone would make your sound close to a single-scale bass.

I didn't want to have to think about finger placement every time I crossed the strings, plus I preferred to keep a single-scale bass to keep my muscle memory intact for fretless playing. So I began stringing my bass with a sort of reverse tension philosophy (*) - the string with the highest tension would be the B string and the tension would slightly decrease with every string, and the G (or C) string would have the lowest tension. This has helped produce a much more even tone on each string, and isn't that noticeable if each string is gradual... Now I've only done this with a 4 string tuned either to BEAD or EADG, but I could still hear the difference.

(* NOTE) One thing to note about the reverse tension idea is that depending on your pickups and fretboard radius, after you select the appropriate tensions for a gradual decrease, you may need to slightly increase the tension of the strings in the middle. If you have a five string Jazz with a 9.5" radius and flat Jazz pickups, you're D string will be the furthest string from the pickups and will then have a lower volume output, if you add mass to the string (higher tension/gauge), it will help normalize it.

Yes, it may take a while to find the right strings for each bass, but thankfully a new set of strings is much cheaper than a new multi-scale bass.

Yes but doing it your way wouldn't allow you to lecture sternly on the merits of your equipment. That seems to be part of the fun.

 

[blue4]

It kinda seems to me that there are two camps of "fret snobs" and that the traditional camp is way bigger and snobbier. jmo

Snobbier? Basically the only thing the "traditional" camp has said is, "no thanks, I'm good." It's seems to me to be the other camp that's pushing a fret agenda.

 

[two fingers]

It kinda seems to me that there are two camps of "fret snobs" and that the traditional camp is way bigger and snobbier. jmo

You could be right. However, nobody (and I don't mean you ) came in here to tell the fanned-fret fans how dumb they are. While those fanned-fret enthusiasts seem to have a certain air about them.... as though those who don't drop parallel fret immediately are knuckle draggers who are somehow damaging music as we know it.

 

[Nobody]

Snobbier? Basically the only thing the "traditional" camp has said is, "no thanks, I'm good." It's seems to me to be the other camp that's pushing a fret agenda.

There are and have been more threads than just this one discussing frets. I've been around this forum since 2004 and have witnessed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more snobbery from traditionalists than from anyone else.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I didn't read the whole thing but my take is this :

Fanned frets help on some pitch but in the end don't resolve the fact that a fretted instrument won't ever be in tune in every key... this is what we call tempered tuning.

As for a tighter B strings, a lot of people don't change their technique, they don't adapt. They want the B string to behave like the rest. If you accept that it won't react the same way and just play closer to the bridge while play the rest of the string more between the pickup or closer to the fingerboard there you go, even response.

Bass player and musician over all are very stuck on tradition.

More bass player than you can think are pattern oriented and an instrument like that, will require they change the hand position and it is a big No No

 

[blue4]

There are and have been more threads than just this one discussing frets. I've been around this forum since 2004 and have witnessed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more snobbery from traditionalists than from anyone else.

I've been and lurked in more fret threads than this as well, and the fanned fret threads look exactly like this one.

 

[Nobody]

I've been and lurked in more fret threads than this as well, and the fanned fret threads look exactly like this one.

You're right.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I keep hearing that there's no demand, yet Dingwall can't make basses fast enough even with the high price tags.

It's not about finding problems to solve, it's about moving forward and improving. When has "its good enough" ever been an acceptable answer for the human race? I'm willing to bet that if more people knew about the benefits of multi-scale, and it was marketed properly, then they would sell just fine.

If Fender did it, others would follow.

Fender is trapped in its own problem. They sell on the legacy of some many iconic songs being recorded with Fender instruments to sell ... people want that. Everything Fender tried ( 6 strings bass, 24 frets, different pick up ) all failed. People want P and J or PJ in boring plastic color ... they want the same stuff those hero of the past used.

 

[Vinny_G]

It kinda seems to me that there are two camps of "fret snobs" and that the traditional camp is way bigger and snobbier. jmo

I do not recognize myself here...

Bass player and musician over all are very stuck on tradition.

...nor here.

 

[spade2you]

I wonder if the double bass players would have had a similar discussion about Fender basses when they first came out had the internet existed then.

Whilest double bassists didn't exactly do the fanned fret thing, there are examples of upright basses with fingerboard extensions to tap into the extended low range.

 

[Ewo]

No fretboard - just a truss rod holding the headstock in place.

You just described the Gittler bass! Well, holding just the nut in place, anyway.

 

[blue4]

You're right.

Exactly. One group saying, "I like my stuff". The other saying, "you just don't know any better." Pretty much every "why isn't fanned frets more popular" thread.

 

[scotch]

The op likes fanned frets and is of the opinion that extended scale B strings are necessarily better than traditional scale lengths.


Neat.


I have preferences too.


Neat.


Being a clearly argumentative musician in Nashville?


Not neat. Good luck with that, op.

 

[Vinny_G]

The other saying, "you just don't know any better."

Isn't that the definition of snobbery? (I may be wrong)

 

[blue4]

Isn't that the definition of snobbery? (I may be wrong)

That's what I'm trying to get across. It's not snobbery to say I'm good with normal frets. It is to say, "no you're not."

 

[Slinger]

I like Scotch. Other people may like Bourbon. They both achieve the same thing so let's stop arguing which is best and just get drunk together.

 

[dave64o]

I didn't read the whole thread so others may have already said this, but I'd say the answer is the the number of active Talkbass members is a TINY fraction of bass players and therefore most bass players have never even heard of fanned fret basses before. Without clear demand, it's a risky thing for major manufacturers to get into. Not that manufacturers don't take any risks, but that's a pretty radical departure from "the norm" and probably only make the risk even higher.