Why don't more builders use fanned frets / multi-scale?

[Remus_Redbone]

I sometimes revisit the OP's original statement / comment / question and come to a different conclusion than my first reply, but not this time.

Why don't more builders use fanned frets / multi-scale?

Dollars, nothing but dollars. If a Jaco, Flea, Trujillo, Sting, etc comes along and is playing a fanned fret bass, builders might move that way, but they aren't going to until it makes $$$.

With string making technology solving the floppy B string problem for most, it's even less likely for builders to make the change to a fan fret model now than it was in the past.

It's not at all uncommon for the first solution to a problem to be a decent solution, but maybe not the most economical solution. Economics usually wins in the end, so the string solution to a floppy B is the most widely implemented solution. Is a fanned fret bass better than a straight fret bass with balanced strings? I have no idea, but I can try balanced strings much easier and cheaper than a new bass, and if it solves what I thought was a problem, I'm no longer looking for a solution.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Do companies not want to step on Dingwall's feet? Or do they just believe fanned frets won't sell?

Some small builders may observer some professional courtesies regarding another small builder's specalties, but companies never worry about stepping on another companies feet. If a company believes it can make additional profits by introducing a new feature, they will exploit it pure and simple. Even patents and trade dress protections get stomped on until a court tells them to stop.

 

[gwangi]

If this bit of info was already brought up, sorry for bringing it up again, I was too lazy going thru the entire thread looking for this info:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Looks real promising just which they would do a 6 string.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

IMHO fanned frets are just trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.

 

[sxaxsx]

Something a lot of people on TB may not realize or want to admit is that probably only like 10% of bassists in the US have a TB account. Go to any bar, go up to the bassist playing the gig, and ask them if they have ever been on TalkBass, or if they like fanned frets, most won't know what you are talking about. They simply joined a band, bought a Fender bass because it's what their guitarist told them to buy, or its what (fill in blank with bassists name) plays in (fill in blank with band name) and its what they have used ever since and have no interest in fanned frets because they are happy with the bass they already have.

For example things I had no idea existed before I joined TB:
1. Fanned frets
2. Sadowky
3. Dingwall
4. Fodera
5. EBMM Bongo
6. Roscoe
7. Marcus Miller
8. Good Squiers
9. People who own more than 3 basses
10. People who argue about mixing drivers

I have played in bands since I was 15 and have met lots of musicians and gone to lots of shows, and I still haven't seen any of these things, but TB insists they are real.

 

[miiitch]

to me it´s not an attempt to "solve a problem", but an option with its very own pros and cons.
Now that my bass was stolen during a break-in anyway, I´d love to get a fanned-fret one. Oh well, darn money ...

 

[gwangi]

Something a lot of people on TB may not realize or want to admit is that probably only like 10% of bassists in the US have a TB account. Go to any bar, go up to the bassist playing the gig, and ask them if they have ever been on TalkBass, or if they like fanned frets, most won't know what you are talking about. They simply joined a band, bought a Fender bass because it's what their guitarist told them to buy, or its what (fill in blank with bassists name) plays in (fill in blank with band name) and its what they have used ever since and have no interest in fanned frets because they are happy with the bass they already have.

For example things I had no idea existed before I joined TB:
1. Fanned frets
2. Sadowky
3. Dingwall
4. Fodera
5. EBMM Bongo
6. Roscoe
7. Marcus Miller
8. Good Squiers
9. People who own more than 3 basses
10. People who argue about mixing drivers

I have played in bands since I was 15 and have met lots of musicians and gone to lots of shows, and I still haven't seen any of these things, but TB insists they are real.

I always thought those type of bass players just got into a band because they wanted to get chicks, because the chicks didn't give them the time or day when they where back in high school.

 

[Phillip B]

I just wish they offered it in trans black. The Ibanez looks great.

Funny - I saw the ESP and thought "Well I might go for that one, since it's not that ugly satin trans black"

Everybody has their own taste, that's what makes the world go round!

 

[Nephilymbass]

Personally I don't really buy into the concept. Don't buy into longer scales either. I've had several basses from stingrays to high end warwicks like my thumb Nt5 that have fantastic low e and B strings and string to string balance at 34" scale. Played a dingwall that was for sale used a guitar center here and wasn't that impressed. Honestly I think the only cases it's really helpful is if you are either tuning rediculously low or you're playing a extended range bass like a 7, 8, or 9 string as the higher unwound strings do sound better with the shorter scale.

 

[Nobody]

Something a lot of people on TB may not realize or want to admit is that probably only like 10% of bassists in the US have a TB account. Go to any bar, go up to the bassist playing the gig, and ask them if they have ever been on TalkBass, or if they like fanned frets, most won't know what you are talking about. They simply joined a band, bought a Fender bass because it's what their guitarist told them to buy, or its what (fill in blank with bassists name) plays in (fill in blank with band name) and its what they have used ever since and have no interest in fanned frets because they are happy with the bass they already have.

For example things I had no idea existed before I joined TB:
1. Fanned frets
2. Sadowky
3. Dingwall
4. Fodera
5. EBMM Bongo
6. Roscoe
7. Marcus Miller
8. Good Squiers
9. People who own more than 3 basses
10. People who argue about mixing drivers

I have played in bands since I was 15 and have met lots of musicians and gone to lots of shows, and I still haven't seen any of these things, but TB insists they are real.

Please tell me you at least knew about tort.....

 

[funkbass187]

Funny - I saw the ESP and thought "Well I might go for that one, since it's not that ugly satin trans black"

Everybody has their own taste, that's what makes the world go round!

I feel like they sabotaged that line of basses by only offering them in those sloppy finishes

 

[Ian Perge]

Am I the only person that read "Legacy Frets" and immediately thought of "Stainless Steel" vs "German Nickel"? (and yes, I know there's really no such thing )

As for the "Fanned Fret Dilemma Late January 2016" , my opinion is that it *is* solving an issue, albeit one that a fairly small amount of Bassists seem to have. I was even interested in picking up an ABZ when at below 2K it was the lowest-level & least "flashy" of Canadian-built Dingwall, but it seems the Combustion & NG models swooped in and took that pricepoint away and thereby raising the ABZs. I also know that like others have mentioned, not being the tallest Bassist in The Forum and adding 2" to the scale length to a Disabled Guy missing the most of 3 Vertebrae would likely cause more problems then it would be fixing. The "medium"-Fanned Fret "Super J" is another thing entirely, but again circles around to a pricepoint I'd rather spend on other brands & types of Basses.

 

[spade2you]

I sometimes revisit the OP's original statement / comment / question and come to a different conclusion than my first reply, but not this time.

Why don't more builders use fanned frets / multi-scale?

Dollars, nothing but dollars. If a Jaco, Flea, Trujillo, Sting, etc comes along and is playing a fanned fret bass, builders might move that way, but they aren't going to until it makes $$$.

With string making technology solving the floppy B string problem for most, it's even less likely for builders to make the change to a fan fret model now than it was in the past.

It's not at all uncommon for the first solution to a problem to be a decent solution, but maybe not the most economical solution. Economics usually wins in the end, so the string solution to a floppy B is the most widely implemented solution. Is a fanned fret bass better than a straight fret bass with balanced strings? I have no idea, but I can try balanced strings much easier and cheaper than a new bass, and if it solves what I thought was a problem, I'm no longer looking for a solution.

It would be difficult for Jaco to play what didn't exist when he was alive. One must keep in mind that his basses were lined because they were defretted. They were defretted because fretless basses weren't readily available at the time. The bass community puts a lot of stock in what Jaco didn't use and a lot of that was simply due to a lack of availability.

Strings can only do so much. Grand pianos would be extinct if one could simply substitute strings for scale length.

I would have assumed that acoustic guitarists are very curmudgeonly. The guys who utilize deep and/or open tunings have been gladly embracing fanned frets. The labor intensive nature of building acoustics generally means they're also spending more money than bassists.

 

[danomite64]

Two problems I see are the unlikeliness of a manufacturer ever producing a lefty fanned bass, and the playability (for me, at least) of a fanned fretless.

 

[Phillip B]

The "medium"-Fanned Fret "Super J" is another thing entirely, but again circles around to a pricepoint I'd rather spend on other brands & types of Basses.

Another option if you don't want the extreme fan is a replacement neck.

Moses has a 34"/35" 4 string in their catalog and say that they will make 5s

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[DavC]

i'd say i'll just pick my preferred scale ... to me , it does seem like marketing for a rather non-problem .?

 

[Junk420]

I love my Dingwall, but I also love my Tbird. Both for very different reasons. I bought the Tbird years ago and learned to play on it, I love it and nothing will ever replace it. Then I went to a Periphery show 2 years ago and met Nolly; one of the nicest dudes I have ever talked to and he was gracious enough to show me his NG-2 Prototype. I played it for 5 minutes and absolutely loved it. I called Dingwall the next day and ordered mine and was one of the first on the list.

No adjustment at all between the fanned frets and normal. I actually noticed the fact that my Tbird has jumbo frets and Dingwalls are made with banjo sized more than I noticed the frets at different angles.

That being said, the NG-2 is an absolutely beautiful piece of craftsmanship. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but opinions are like a-holes after all. Before anyone jumps to any conclusions about fanned fretted or long scaled instruments, I strongly suggest you pick one up and try it out. I remember walking into a music store years and thinking that I wouldn't like playing bass, but then I tried one and haven't looked back.

Side Note: It would be interesting to see if there are patterns with this sort of thing. People who hate fanned frets also hate the AMC Pacer and Cats, something like that...

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Are you offering an opinion based on having owned one, or just having tried one? I ask, because as an owner of two multi-scale instruments, I find many chord shapes are easier, particularly those at the higher positions. The hand is in a more comfortable position because the wrist isn't rotated as much. The downside is a few shapes can be more challenging.

Harmonics at the lower positions are still possible, but require a bit more care when playing them on two or more strings at the same time. For whatever reason, I tend not to play harmonics at the higher positions, but there would be no difficulty doing so once acclimated to the instrument.

For me, I find the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

I own a Dingwall but I only own a 4 string. I have extensive experience playing both 5 and 6 string models though. Chords are more difficult to play than a parallel fret instrument as are harmonics, harmonic chords are especially difficult.. They are not impossible but if you incorporate these techniques into your playing then the transition period is more difficult and does require actual adjustment whereas regular old bass playing takes little to no adjustment.

I completely understand that this trade off is worth it for you have a a clear B string up the neck but for most players this hassle isn't worth it particularly when you consider that most players never even play over the 5th fret on their B string.

I have no questions in my mind why fanned fret basses are not the industry standard and never will be.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

The lack of Love for ESP/LTD basses on this forum honestly amazes me

Funny story about LTD and a slight de-rail.

My friend recently started working at a pawn shop and he constantly tells me to come down and check out their nice guitars. He doesn't play so he just sees a guitar and says "this looks nice plus it goes for a decent price, it must be a good guitar," and for the most part he is right. But because of this he shows me all these "nice" guitars that are perfectly fine but they're from brands the average musician would scoff at, such as LTD. It is kind of funny and such a different departure from the usual gear recommendations of your peers.

 

[onlyclave]

The concept has been around a good while and yet only recently Ibanez has become the first company to really mass produce fanned fret basses. However, these aren't even full scale (35.5'' vs 37'' low B). Some boutique builders do it, but usually as a special order kinda deal.

Do companies not want to step on Dingwall's feet? Or do they just believe fanned frets won't sell?

It's a shame that Dingwall is the only one really doing it given their prices and scarcity. I've heard it isn't really more costly to produce multi-scale once the manufacturing is in place. By now I feel like we should be able to get a fanned fret jazz for less than $3k. Or think how awesome a 5-string multi-scale Fodera would be...

Because guys like me won't buy them and they want to sell basses. Simple.