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Why is "Metal" constantly being bashed by "real" musicians?

#141
El-Bob said:
All of these statements are equally true of every other genre of music.


This thread is approaching the issue from a strictly musical perspective as far as i can tell, and your point is more philosophical. It doesn't matter to me whether people "like" it or not, it's whether they respect it as a legitimate form of music which consists of high levels of musicianship.


Most of those statements aren't true, sorry. Yeah, there's some crappy, sloppy metal bands, as there are crappy, sloppy bands in any style. that's just a result of being too lazy to practice.
As a general rule, metal musicians play more precisely, more cleanly, and more technically than most other genres, and as far as technical proficiency is concerned, metal is probably the only style or music to rival jazz (imo/ime).

Edit: Metalguy2, I really like that last statement you made about being in a loud, fast, heavy, tight metal band. there's really nothing quite like it, eh? :)
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What? That is ludicrous. Sure some metal bands play precise etc, but to make a blanket statement like that just shows your blind prejudice the other way. I love metal, but in my experience at shows, I have heard far more sloppy metal bands with terrible sound jobs where none of the instruments cut through cleanly, and a vast lack of technical skills than any other genre I regularly watch live. That is my problem with some of the metal bands I hear, its just some wankers who thought they could turn on distortion get subs and scream in a mike. I appreciate the ones who are clear, and I have seen bands that suck all around in every genre, but there is no way I could ever agree with what you said.

EDIT:

I like metal and appreciate bands that play it well. I don't like all metal, and if I like a song I like it, I don't care what anyone else thinks, I'll listen to it. I have had more bad experiences with quality of music in watching live metal bands than any other genre (disclaimer: I don't go to pop concerts or rap concerts). I'm not being mean, that's just my experience with it. There are some metal bands that I find their lyrics very deep and poetic, and I enjoy them because of that. I have met a whole lot of metal snobs, and I have worked with classical artists (whom some others will say are the biggest snobs but I have found the opposite to be true). It is off-putting. It is like when I played a lot of punk rock for a while, it wasn't enough for me to enjoy some of the genre and playing some of it. I was a poser, because I didn't conform to their non-conformity.
 
#142
zachoff said:
The real answer... Because you can't be a "real" musician unless you've played for a long time and/or gone to school to learn to "appreciate music"... In other words have been taught to be the ultimate in musical snobbery.
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LOL - yeah, learning things leads to "Snobbery" -- Nice.

Let me guess... It's them "Intellectual Elites" with all that "College" that have "ruined our once great nation", right?
 
#144
I don't get the conflict. There's music that one likes and music one doesn't like. There is some metal that I think is great, Megadeth's Rust In Peace is a phenomenal album, in my opinion, with fantastic playing. Then there is Metallica, and while, for a time, I listened to them every waking a moment, I heard, for the first time in a long time, The Thing That Should Not Be, and the first thing that popped into my head was, 'Wow, this song is just plain dumb.'

So what? Fusion gives me hives. I don't care how good Chick Corea is, I can't stand his fusion work. I don't care how good the guys in Dream Theater are, I will never enjoy their music. Do THEY suck? No. Do I think their music sucks? Yeah, I kinda do. The James Taylor/Jackson Brown Sperry Top Sider Yacht Rock crew give me the hives too. So what?

Bottom line is, if you like a band, or a style, or a genre, why would you care what other people think of it? For every one of us on this site there is AT LEAST one person out there who is going to dislike what we do for any number of reasons.
 
#145
Marial said:
I don't get the conflict. There's music that one likes and music one doesn't like. There is some metal that I think is great, Megadeth's Rust In Peace is a phenomenal album, in my opinion, with fantastic playing. Then there is Metallica, and while, for a time, I listened to them every waking a moment, I heard, for the first time in a long time, The Thing That Should Not Be, and the first thing that popped into my head was, 'Wow, this song is just plain dumb.'

So what? Fusion gives me hives. I don't care how good Chick Corea is, I can't stand his fusion work. I don't care how good the guys in Dream Theater are, I will never enjoy their music. Do THEY suck? No. Do I think their music sucks? Yeah, I kinda do. The James Taylor/Jackson Brown Sperry Top Sider Yacht Rock crew give me the hives too. So what?

Bottom line is, if you like a band, or a style, or a genre, why would you care what other people think of it? For every one of us on this site there is AT LEAST one person out there who is going to dislike what we do for any number of reasons.
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I agree... What puzzles me is why metal fans care so much what others think! Jazz fans? Nope. Funk? Nope. Even most old-school rock fans just don't care what you, or anyone else thinks... But so many metal folks are so... Touchy about it. Given the whole "Hard guy / evil / leather" thing, you think that the LAST thing they would do is care what other folks thought.... *unless*...
 
#147
I believe that most people who don't actively listen or care for metal don't understand the variety of sub-genres that it has. There are so many different types ranging from hardcore, deathcore, metal, speed metal, death metal, etc. I am a fan of some genres of metal, while others I totally hate. But people tend to just group all of them together, and since most of the younger generations play it, they feel like it is just teenage angst or something.
Indeed, many bands just play for speed (Brain Drill is the first band that pops into my mind). But there are so many bands that are way different than that. My favorite band is Veil of Maya which is extremely different from more mainstream bands like slayer, slipknot, or old metal bands which I don't like.
With that said, I don't listen to jazz and am sure there are a variety of sub-genres as well. But I don't bash it, but I do definitely agree, more people bash metal than any other genre.
 
#149
BigOldHarry said:
LOL - yeah, learning things leads to "Snobbery" -- Nice.

Let me guess... It's them "Intellectual Elites" with all that "College" that have "ruined our once great nation", right?
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Ruined by lawyers, businessmen, and politicians, baby!

Scientific minds can't be bothered by the inner-workings of society... Plus they're generally too awkward to be accepted by the mainstream, anyway.

The entirety of my last post was tongue in cheek. Just trying to further the stereotype. :smug:
 
#150
Roy Vogt said:
I will chime in with my $.02
I've done Rock, Country, Pop and Jazz Tours. One thing that I noticed is that there's a code of mutual respect among musicians and tour support personnel regardless of genre.
Case in point: I was playing with Joanna Dean, a Hard Rock singer signed to Polygram in the Hair Metal era of the late 80s when I ran into Jazz Guitarist Joe Pass in Copenhagen. Joe was playing at Tivoli Gardens with Charlie Mariano. I half apologetically explained to Joe that I loved his work but I was over here with a Metal Band and he stopped me right there, "Don't apologize! You've got a gig! Good for you!"
More often than not a good bassist or guitarist at that level can play many, many styles well. I've never run into a touring Pro Rocker who dogged another Touring Pro Musician, regardless of style. When I was out with John (Dukes of Hazzard) Schneider we ended up staying at the same hotel as Bon Jovi and they gave us VIP passes to their show that night and pretty much the Royal Treatment (this was in 1987, the Slippery When Wet era).
When I was out with Engelbert Humperdinck we stayed and played at The Foxwoods Casino when the Yellowjackets were playing at the B B Kings club there. I ended up hanging out with Jimmy Haslip, Russ Ferrante and Bobby Mintzer and they were totally nice and didn't dog me for my gig. Jimmy, of course, was touring with the Great Rock Guitarist Tommy Bolin when he died.
I think it's a bit like Fans of NFL Teams. I live in Nashville and we hate the Baltimore Ravens. I know the players talk some smack but when the late Steve McNair was traded to them, I'm sure they welcomed him into their organization and he still kept all of his Titans buddies. A lot of this smashing other genres and trash-talking is more the province of "Fans" of bass and music styles rather than Pro Players. Nothing wrong with that-it's called Talkbass and there's no entrance exam to post. You just have to love bass.
I absolutely love Jaco and Jeff Berlin. I also absolutely love Billy Sheehan, Lemmy and the late Wally Voss (Yngwie's bassist and an absolute unsung Bass Hero) was a dear, dear friend. I try to listen to Music and not Categories.
I've got a recording session tomorrow in Chicago. It's Fusion. Chris Poland (Megadeath and O.H.M.) is overdubbing the guitar solos in LA. I don't care what style he calls himself-I just call him a Bad**s Guitarist and I'm honored we're on the same track!
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Nice post. In my experience most metal musicians with a decent number of gigs and a few albums under their belt are usually very professional and courteous, although some still give black metal a bad rep by being very poor company backstage.:p
 
#151
BigOldHarry said:
Why do metal folks care what other folks think?

That is *so* not metal!
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You say that a lot, but this is a musicians forum where we enjoy expressing our opinions and discuss music - and even musical values.

I don't believe anyone here cares enough to stop listening to whatever they like because others don't, but some care enough to use the forum as it was intended.

Why should this be different for metal musicians? Assuming that metalheads are poseurs before musicians is really not very enlightened, and many posts easily available to you have already suggested otherwise.
 
#152
Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg
 
#154
Metal as a genre is not bashed in this forum.

People make jokes about "best anything for metal" because they come up a lot. And these threads are quite funny. It seems that all other musicians understand that there's no best for anything, metal folks don't...
 
#155
There is no real answer to this thread (as Ive seen through the countless different and sometimes hilarious responses) aside from everybody has their likes and their dislikes. For example, I play in a prog metal band along the lines of Dream Theater, Tool and Opeth but practice Bach, most types of jazz, and anything that I have heard and like. Sure some metal sounds like noise with screaming on top of it but hey, if somebody likes it somewhere its done its purpose. Music is nothing but something to be enjoyed :bassist: If it works for you, it should be fine with everybody else! Who cares what they think!
 
#156
Faderoktopus said:
You say that a lot, but this is a musicians forum where we enjoy expressing our opinions and discuss music - and even musical values.

I don't believe anyone here cares enough to stop listening to whatever they like because others don't, but some care enough to use the forum as it was intended.

Why should this be different for metal musicians? Assuming that metalheads are poseurs before musicians is really not very enlightened, and many posts easily available to you have already suggested otherwise.
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And yet, it's always "Metal Heads" who agonize over their lack of perceived legitimacy. I have never ONCE seen a player from any other genre... Okay, I'll use the word: Whine. Metal folks whine so much about what other folks think that it makes me suspect that deep in their heart of hearts, they know the truth about playing metal. And I'll wager the guys who ARE completely comfortable and confident in their playing/genre of music are not the ones how participate in threads like this...
 
#157
This would be quite funny if it wasn't so rude. Where is it that you see whining and insecurity in this thread? I see diverse opinions regarding whether or not metal is being bashed at all, I see an acceptance of the diversity of taste on both sides and I see some indignation with the really ignorant posts. Ignorance is, to me, one of the most provocative things to encounter in any aspect of life, and so there are responses that attempt to refute the more aggravating examples.

One such example would be suggesting that anyone listening to a particular genre is notoriously insecure, or suggesting that all metal fans know deep down inside that their music sucks. Yes, I believe that would qualify as an example of the above.

As for participating in threads, if everything is either whining or bashing what, then is acceptable debate? I, for one, feel very confident in my playing and the music I play. Though i haven't actually played metal for the last few years I know for a fact that as a genre it can be as challenging and rewarding as everything else I've played.
 
#158
BigOldHarry said:
And yet, it's always "Metal Heads" who agonize over their lack of perceived legitimacy. I have never ONCE seen a player from any other genre... Okay, I'll use the word: Whine. Metal folks whine so much about what other folks think that it makes me suspect that deep in their heart of hearts, they know the truth about playing metal. And I'll wager the guys who ARE completely comfortable and confident in their playing/genre of music are not the ones how participate in threads like this...
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+1
 

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