Will the ciggarette prices get you to quit

[Eublet]

Trying to say that smoking doesnt have an effect on others? Guess all that second hand smoking stuff must be made up

I will say that I dont think it should be banned, and doubt it ever will be. And having to pay a bit more is hardly the government banning it, esepcially when you guys are still getting off lighty with how much stuff costs in the US. And I'm not a smoker, never have been. Worked for a number of years in a bar, both before and during the smoking ban in public places in the UK. Can't say it was a bad thing at all. Only job hours that worked with my education, so sadly I had to put up with smelling like an ashtray and coughing up wads of black flem every other night. Not to mention the oh so pleasant job of cleaning out ashtrays and sweeping up the mess from people who just ditched their fag ends.

So anything that doesnt encroach on the civil liberties of others should be legal? So stuff like PCP, herion, meth etc should all be legal too? Just wondering how rigerously people will stand by a statement like that when taken to extremes.

I'll stand by it. People should be able to do whatever they want to themselves. And yes, I also believe that I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's stupidity in ruining their lives on such indulgences.

As for your other comments, ditching the fags is littering, and should be punishable as such. You also had every right to go get a job somewhere else so that you weren't exposed to smoking. Nobody made you work there. And the whole second hand smoke thing is totally blown out of proportion. Goverment bans of smoking should be limited to government controlled places, like city hall, government offices, whatever else. But government shouldn't be telling some bar owner that he can't let folks smoke in his own building that he's bought and paid for with his own money. Let some other guy start his own smoke-free bar of his own free-will, and let competition between the two decide which stays open. Hopefully both, but if one closes then so be it. The people will have decided, instead of some bloated government beauracracy.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

which is why I <3 the conservative side telling me not to drop acid, do ecstasy, and smoke pot.

When it comes to "morals," the left is for civil liberties and little government intervention.

When it comes to taxes, its the opposite.

Figure that one out...

 

[Eublet]

which is why I <3 the conservative side telling me not to drop acid, do ecstasy, and smoke pot.

Same here. They're no different. Both sides want to legislate their own set of rules for people to live by. Either comes down to destroying our right to make our own personal choices about what we do with our lives. Fortunately there are choices out there for voters that don't fall under the mainstream conservative or liberal umbrellas.

 

[GregC]

I would love to respond to some of this stuff, but since there's a NO POLITICS rule at TB (helloooo?), I'm going to refrain. Jeez, guys, you might want to edit/delete some of your posts..

 

[elgecko]

Lest this degenerate into a political debate, the issue is cigarette taxes. What the new tax signifies is the official end of the Tobacco lobby, who used to be one of the most powerful lobbies around.

 

[EBodious]

i am sooo glad i quit my pack-a-day when i thought $1.50 was an outrageous price to pay! camel filters, yum, yum.


ok, hang on.... let me get....



there it is.... ahhh, my ole soap box.


so, regulating your favorite vice is p***ing you off? well, i certainly agree that the gov should not tell us what we can or cannot do to our own selves. but, when i hear tobacco users complain about taxes on their favorite vice, well, i can't help but think about how the feds treat mine. either drugs are illegal or they are not. certainly, reality has proven that in a free society you can't keep vice away from people regardless of law and/or enforcement. you can cause a whole lot of trouble, over-populate prisons (powerful lobby) and create wealth for organized crime, though!
i would be happy to see a logical application of regulation of vice. make it all legal, and regulate underage usage. tax adult usage. personally, i'd like to see a caffeine tax. see what that would do to our society! it kills several thousand people a year (unlike a certain other drug).


btw, $7 a pack in wisconsin? my friend works at a tobacco outlet and says there are still packs under $4 (pall mall, i believe). road trip?

 

[IconBasser]

Anything that doesn't encroach on the civil liberties of others should be legal.

whoa, I didn't know there were any libertarians left in England. Right on!

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I'll stand by it. People should be able to do whatever they want to themselves. And yes, I also believe that I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's stupidity in ruining their lives on such indulgences.

As for your other comments, ditching the fags is littering, and should be punishable as such. You also had every right to go get a job somewhere else so that you weren't exposed to smoking. Nobody made you work there. And the whole second hand smoke thing is totally blown out of proportion. Goverment bans of smoking should be limited to government controlled places, like city hall, government offices, whatever else. But government shouldn't be telling some bar owner that he can't let folks smoke in his own building that he's bought and paid for with his own money. Let some other guy start his own smoke-free bar of his own free-will, and let competition between the two decide which stays open. Hopefully both, but if one closes then so be it. The people will have decided, instead of some bloated government beauracracy.

It doesn't matter who owns the building- if it allows public access, then it must follow public health laws. Owning a business does not give one the right to pick and choose which laws they want to follow.

 

[IconBasser]

So stuff like PCP, herion, meth etc should all be legal too?

absolutely.

 

[sean.1986]

whoa, I didn't know there were any libertarians left in England. Right on!

Yup! Practicing libertarians, too. Especially in the rough parts of London.

 

[Mike N]

When Marlboro's hit $1 a pack I thought I was getting screwed. After 24 years of smoking I quit cold turkey, and I think Marb's were around $3 a pack then.

$7 a pack is outrageous. I'm paying $7 a gallon for the racing fuel in my Camaro, and I get alot more enjoyment out of that than I ever did from smoking.

 

[elgecko]

so, regulating your favorite vice is p***ing you off? well, i certainly agree that the gov should not tell us what we can or cannot do to our own selves. but, when i hear tobacco users complain about taxes on their favorite vice, well, i can't help but think about how the feds treat mine. either drugs are illegal or they are not.

Unfortunately, it's not so black and white. Everyone knows that heroin is illegal, but other opiates are perfectly legal and acceptable when a doctor prescribes them (don't get me started on the drug lobby!). Same thing with Marijuana. It's a Schedule I drug that's decidedly illegal...unless you live in a state with legalized medical marijuana. Of course, it's outlawed from a federal standpoint and the DEA loves to come in a disrupt something that the majority of voters supported .

 

[EBodious]

I'll stand by it. People should be able to do whatever they want to themselves. And yes, I also believe that I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's stupidity in ruining their lives on such indulgences.

As for your other comments, ditching the fags is littering, and should be punishable as such. You also had every right to go get a job somewhere else so that you weren't exposed to smoking. Nobody made you work there. And the whole second hand smoke thing is totally blown out of proportion. Goverment bans of smoking should be limited to government controlled places, like city hall, government offices, whatever else. But government shouldn't be telling some bar owner that he can't let folks smoke in his own building that he's bought and paid for with his own money. Let some other guy start his own smoke-free bar of his own free-will, and let competition between the two decide which stays open. Hopefully both, but if one closes then so be it. The people will have decided, instead of some bloated government beauracracy.

another thought:

the belief that "you can always quit that job" comes from a position of luxury. there are a multitude of circumstances that prevent people from simply walking away from a job they don't like. it's just not that simple.

also, often i find in debates like this that it easy to get tunnel visioned. consider a larger perspective. there are all sorts of regulations that exist to protect us as we function in larger society. i too find it appealing to think of living truly free (like live in the woods by my own devices, free), but i choose to live in society. i have rented many places and owned two. i am glad building codes exist. they can get a little outrageous, but without them i would have to inspect the foundations and crawl spaces of every apartment i ever lived in? and then there is eating out. i like too. i prefer not to have to inspect every kitchen of every restaurant i wanna eat at (don't really have the time). i would rather not have a cook with tb or typhoid serving food in my home town. then there is safe wiring in my kids' schools.

it goes on and on. i am not a fan government regulation of my personal habits. certainly if it only effects me safe in my home (not when i am driving down the road, for example). some regulation in society is necessary.

 

[elgecko]

$7 a pack is outrageous. I'm paying $7 a gallon for the racing fuel in my Camaro, and I get alot more enjoyment out of that than I ever did from smoking.

Yeah, but does racing your Camaro make you look cool?

 

[sean.1986]

I agree with regulating the sale of substances, but not the use.

 

[fo shizzle]

I bought two cartons Tuesday, so I have about 2 1/2 weeks to decide. I've used Chantix before, and had great results. Only problem is I started again about 6 months later.

Now, my company will pay for the Chantix if I enroll in an American Cancer Society program, so that's probably what I'll do in the next few weeks.

Did you experience side effects?

I did.....

 

[elgecko]

BTW, I just scored...er, I mean bought a carton. $51.10 (tax included) for a carton of Kamel Reds.

 

[EBodious]

Unfortunately, it's not so black and white. Everyone knows that heroin is illegal, but other opiates are perfectly legal and acceptable when a doctor prescribes them (don't get me started on the drug lobby!). Same thing with Marijuana. It's a Schedule I drug that's decidedly illegal...unless you live in a state with legalized medical marijuana. Of course, it's outlawed from a federal standpoint and the DEA loves to come in a disrupt something that the majority of voters supported .

maybe i was not clear. either all drugs should be legal or all drugs should be illegal. i am all to aware of the gray areas of drug legislation and the culprits behind it.

i am with you. i worked hard for prop 215, back in the day.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I'll stand by it. People should be able to do whatever they want to themselves. And yes, I also believe that I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's stupidity in ruining their lives on such indulgences.

As for your other comments, ditching the fags is littering, and should be punishable as such. You also had every right to go get a job somewhere else so that you weren't exposed to smoking. Nobody made you work there. And the whole second hand smoke thing is totally blown out of proportion. Goverment bans of smoking should be limited to government controlled places, like city hall, government offices, whatever else. But government shouldn't be telling some bar owner that he can't let folks smoke in his own building that he's bought and paid for with his own money. Let some other guy start his own smoke-free bar of his own free-will, and let competition between the two decide which stays open. Hopefully both, but if one closes then so be it. The people will have decided, instead of some bloated government beauracracy.

Actually, there wasn't many viable choices. Living in a small town and needing antisocial working hours, it was the only type of job opportunity there. Guess I could have always ditched my education

And re the other drugs, I would rather keep things like that illegal, seeing the high rate of criminal incident involved with people out their heads on heroin or PCP and causing harm or damages to innocent bystanders. Why should I have to suffer because someone else wants to be out of their skull? (on saying that, yes, alcohol does cause this too, granted to a lesser extent, but it's aready socially acceptable and far to profitable for governments).

In regards to seatbelts example mentioned earlier. I'd agree that if you are in the car alone, then fine, don't wear one if you dont want to. It'll only be you coming to harm, but if there are other people in the car you would be endangering them in a crash.

Also, Re-Eublet's mention of "liberals & nanny state". Unless I'm mistaken or things are different in the US, Liberals are all about the liberty of the individual?

 

[EBodious]

In regards to seatbelts example mentioned earlier. I'd agree that if you are in the car alone, then fine, don't wear one if you dont want to. It'll only be you coming to harm, but if there are other people in the car you would be endangering them in a crash.

unless you choose not to wear a seat belt, get into an accident, don't have insurance, get physically debilitated, and live on public assistance the rest of your life. if you enjoy the benefits of society you have to pay for that luxury somewhere along the line.