Wisdom on Prince from Gene Simmons

[kenneffdupriest]

you ppl talk about jean simmons more than you do Jaco.

 

[joebar]

Gene says that he's never been drunk or high in his life in many, many interviews. Good for you Gene, you're better than the rest of us. Happy now?

but he brags about sleeping with thousands of women and seems to have an addiction of a carnal nature.
same poop different pile.

 

[basschanges]

Perfect timing. I've read a number of posts on this thread like the above, and this one came through right when I wondered if I should comment.

Many here are all about defending Prince's addiction issues because it was a response to pain, and we understand pain. Physical pain.
It doesn't matter that Prince had the ability, agency, and means to a) not get hooked, and b) get help when he did. He gets a pass because we like him or his music, or his "contribution to culture." And we know physical pain.

But Simmons on the other hand, is an "ass-hat". His emotional disorders cause behavior that offends the tender sensibilities of those who don't even know him because they don't understand mental health problems. Mental health problems are far more stigmatized than drug problems. So when Simmons mouths off, people don't say "oh, isn't it sad that his emotional problems have atrophied his empathic abilities, I sure wish he and others like him could get help for the sake of his family and friends." And he didn't play bass like Jaco Pastorius (another musician with mental health problems) So, he's an ass-hat. "egotistical, arrogant [...] shameful."

Narcissism is not an epithet you direct at someone with an overdeveloped self image. It's a mental health issue. Had Simmons never been successful with Kiss, he still would be a narcissist. That doesn't make him a bad person, it only means that things that come out of his mouth may reflect an inability to relate to other's thoughts or feelings. In our society, that's a social crime. Drug addiction? oh, poor soul.

Prince was a talented dude whose music I had no inclination to buy. His death was too early and even more sadly, preventable.
Simmons is a talented dude whose music I bought until his creative fire was overtaken by success. With therapy, the discomfort that he causes his family (he has few friends) could be prevented. I wish him well.

As for you, my TB friends: If you're one those who have nothing but "ass-hat" and "shameful" for those that don't have all the screws in their head buttoned down, take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself just how compassionate you really think you are?

Of course, you don't have to be compassionate, now do you?
You could just be an ass-hat.

Right?

Interesting philosophical quandary you bring up. Perhaps we are being asshats for calling an asshat and asshat. Maybe, by your own logic, you're being an asshat by implying that we could be asshats. I'm not saying this to be cute. I'm doing it to underline the discussion of responsibility and agency, the question of how much any of us have free will, so to speak. I don't really know myself.

Still, here's my answer to your post. Sociopaths would also fit your description of the mentally ill, pedophiles too. I don't call sociopaths or pedophiles asshats, or monsters, or morally bankrupt....until they hurt people. What Gene did was further the notion that addiction is a moral weakness, a sign of poor character. The dissemination of that notion actively hurts people and prevents progress in treating addiction. In doing that, he was being an asshat. I don't think he should be prosecuted for it. I also don't think me calling him an ass-hat is any great attack. To illustrate my point by taking it to an extreme: Jefferey Dahmer was likely born a violent psychopath, not his fault. But when he decided to eat people...he was an asshat.

And yes, in the sense that Prince hurt his family and his friends by killing himself, he was being an asshat as well. However, his addiction was an illness, not an act of moral turpitude.

 

[GregC]

Why, yes, because we can call him names from afar as well. It's not like his issues aren't obvious. And it's not as afar as you think, I've spoken with him several times.

Gene didn't comment on his own mental health issues in that article but he did demonstrate them.
And why do you think he says douchy things, GregC?

Are you a mental health professional? Your initial rant post is based almost purely on your assumption that Simmons is mentally ill.

We don't actually know for sure yet that Prince had addiction issues--that's another assumption. Yes, it may very well be a fact soon, but Simmons had no business making his declarations based upon speculation.

Why does he say these things? I don't know. Maybe he's simply a garden-variety jerk? Or is it your contention that all people who might be called that have mental health issues, so we should give them a pass on the crappy things they say to and about other people?

I find it ironic that you mockingly refer to others' "tender sensibilities" while saying that they should give poor Gene a break, because he's "obviously" mentally ill.

 

[Max Blasto]

Interesting philosophical quandary you bring up. Perhaps we are being asshats for calling an asshat and asshat. Maybe, by your own logic, you're being an asshat by implying that we could be asshats. I'm not saying this to be cute. I'm doing it to underline the discussion of responsibility and agency, the question of how much any of us have free will, so to speak. I don't really know myself.

Still, here's my answer to your post. Sociopaths would also fit your description of the mentally ill, pedophiles too. I don't call sociopaths or pedophiles asshats, or monsters, or morally bankrupt....until they hurt people. What Gene did was further the notion that addiction is a moral weakness, a sign of poor character. The dissemination of that notion actively hurts people and prevents progress in treating addiction. In doing that, he was being an asshat. I don't think he should be prosecuted for it. I also don't think me calling him an ass-hat is any great attack. To illustrate my point by taking it to an extreme: Jefferey Dahmer was likely born a violent psychopath, not his fault. But when he decided to eat people...he was an asshat.

And yes, in the sense that Prince hurt his family and his friends by killing himself, he was being an asshat as well. However, his addiction was an illness, not an act of moral turpitude.

Indeed.
And in some people, lack of empathy results from an illness, not from moral turpitude. Not all, of course. Some people just don't care about others.

Regarding your second paragraph, you've perfectly outlined _why_ mental health problems are stigmatized in society. The symptoms splash into other people's boats. You don't curse a guy in a wheelchair because his problem doesn't affect you. You do curse a guy who shoots guns in a movie theater because that _can_ affect you. Who cares if Jeffrey Dahmer is crazy as long as he doesn't _do_ something crazy. But that's the problem with mental health: you an only tell something is wrong by what people do.

 

[Mind Eroded]

Gene needs to say a "dick-ish" thing every so often to stay in the headlines. It's his only way of trying to stay relevant today. So predictable.

 

[Max Blasto]

Are you a mental health professional? Your initial rant post is based almost purely on your assumption that Simmons is mentally ill.

I'm convinced that he has an emotional disorder.

We don't actually know for sure yet that Prince had addiction issues--that's another assumption. Yes, it may very well be a fact soon, but Simmons had no business making his declarations based upon speculation.

We really don't know what happened to Prince yet. I hope we do so that the stupid stuff on the tabloids can be put to rest and if painkillers were involved the issue coming to light can help others.

Why does he say these things? I don't know. Maybe he's simply a garden-variety jerk? Or is it your contention that all people who might be called that have mental health issues, so we should give them a pass on the crappy things they say to and about other people?

No, and I don't see why you need to resort to reductio ad absurdum to entertain the possibility that some people lack empathic skills others take for granted.

I find it ironic that you mockingly refer to others' "tender sensibilities" while saying that they should give poor Gene a break, because he's "obviously" mentally ill.

I think it's ironic that you think you're in the business of giving people breaks and passes. Good thing we have you to decide who gets slack.

I don't care whether you think I know anything about emotional disorders anymore than I care whether you're actually the judge that you make yourself out to be. You don't have to lay an egg to know a rotten one.
If you don't like Gene, call him names. If you think people who do drugs are bad, call them names too.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I might very well be totally off here... but I don't think Gene Simmons is going out of his way thinking up Trump like things to say in order to get his face splattered about the blogspots and facebook. Then again, who knows?

In an effort to slightly derail this thread, I DO ABSOLUTELY think that the new Mehgan Trainer video stuff about them photoshopping her waist is COMPLETELY a well though out marketing scheme. People that are marketing these people and making their videos aren't stupid. They're marketing geniuses. That's why they work with the top stars. I find it next to impossible to believe that they photoshopped her body, without telling her - when she's clearly ALL ABOUT THAT BASS - and then on her own accord, started swinging her bat telling them she won't stand for it. And gets them to change it. GTFOOH. I'm fairly certain this was discussed at great length long before that video even went into production. And I think it was brilliant, because it got her lots of publicity, and positive publicity too. It worked. Excellently.

Then again, Gene is great at marketing too - but who besides him can know his motivations? I honestly think he doesn't care any more at this point about promoting himself. Why does anybody care so much what he says, anyhow?

In case anyone doesn't know the MT story Meghan Trainor pulls 'Me Too' video altered to make her thinner - CNN.com

 

[Tommyc]

you ppl talk about jean simmons more than you do Jaco.

Well, that's because it's an easy choice.

 

[Hues]

Remember that Gene and his band have built an entire career from getting negative reactions to what they say and do.

It's been this way from the beginning.....To not be talked about is to be forgotten.

 

[Bass212]

Gene Simmons is a turd, truly an awful human being from the stories I've heard (hey that rhymed). Pretty sure Prince took pills because he had to, he had some pretty substantial health issues and probably had chronic pain.

 

[Strung_Low]

Prince is not getting deified, or glorified, because he died. He is glorified because he was a bada$$ musician, writer, producer, and most of all, performer. Of course not everyone liked him or his music, but its pretty remarkable how his fans were from so many different backgrounds and age groups. I never got to meet him, but general word on the street is that he was also a very nice person as well. I'm sure there are some band-wagoners only saying how great Prince was after he died, but most of us well knew his greatness while he was still with us. I can't believe some people here are getting irritated because so many folks speak so highly of Prince and his musical contributions, ***.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Prince is not getting deified, or glorified, because he died. He is glorified because he was a bada$$ musician, writer, producer, and most of all, performer. Of course not everyone liked him or his music, but its pretty remarkable how his fans were from so many different backgrounds and age groups. I never got to meet him, but general word on the street is that he was also a very nice person as well. I'm sure there are some band-wagoners only saying how great Prince was after he died, but most of us well knew his greatness while he was still with us. I can't believe some people here are getting irritated because so many folks speak so highly of Prince and his musical contributions, ***.

I think it's because people are getting on Gene. The title and premise of the thread has a lot to do with the responses it's evoking.

 

[Strung_Low]

I think it's because people are getting on Gene. The title and premise of the thread has a lot to do with the responses it's evoking.

Yeah, i get it. Kiss was the first rock band i ever got into from way way back in the day. And agreed, the thread is all about bashing Gene...however, olden day Kiss fan aside, i gotta admit he says some pretty dicky things sometimes ...I guess i dont hold it against him too much tho

 

[Beavisplaysbass]

The point is that if drugs were the reason he died, we don't know if it was abuse or the byproduct of addiction brought on by legitimate medical use. Where the line is drawn says more about us than Prince.

I stand by what I said, not all doctors know it all.

 

[TedH]

From what I have been reading, most people caught up in the current opioid epidemic here in the US were prescribed painkillers for legitimate reasons and became addicted.

Any of you guys ever had injuries where your doctor prescribed percocet or oxy? A good friend of mine who works in construction has back pain and refuses them even if his doctor recommends them because of the addiction possibility...I would do the same.

Prince was in his 50s and doing acrobatics on stage in high heels...reports are he had pain from that and he may have gotten legitimate prescriptions at first.

Either way, it's sad.

BTW anyone remember Ted Nugent calling Duane Allman an ******* for riding a motorcycle and getting himself killed?

Good on your friend. Lower back pain is huge for oxy usage (talk to the auto manufacturers about that one...)

I work in drug development and have seen a lot of stuff on opiods, and the long and the short of it is that the US is one of the few nations that prescribes them for very run of the mill pain (e.g. dental, etc) along with Canada, AUS, NZ and a bit in the UK; most other countries only use them for end of life pain (e.g. cancer). It is a public health issue and I would say that the docs carry a reasonable part of that burden along with the patients who doctor hop, and keep going to get someone who writes them, plus they are in many pain guidelines.

My mom just had a minor dental surgery and is an RN. She didn't want opiods for pain both philosophically and from a side-effect profile, so she asked me to work with the surgeon on making sure he didn't do that. I brought him studies on a neuropathic pain drug in both dental and knee and hip replacement surgeries that showed pain reduction, and by definition, reduction in opioid consumption. Side effect of the drug was somnolence, which is a great side effect post-dental surgery. Would he consider that? His response "I'm not familiar with it in dental pain, so she can cut the 80mg oxy in half if it bothers her stomach". Seemed upset to have his judgement challenged. He didn't know the generic name of the med I mentioned, only the brand name (and now you know one other reason why drug companies advertise in the US...). I gave the same speech to her dentist, who read the studies quickly, even printed out another one he found for me, and wrote a script for her. We tore up the oxy script.

Bummer if that was an issue for Prince. You get 30days of an opiod and you're pretty much hooked; it's serious stuff.

 

[louloomis]

Disclosure: I'm not a fan of Kiss' music. BUT:

Gene Simmons has had his own trauma early in life. Regardless of whether or not he ever did drugs (which I guess he didn't), just as a human being he deserves our compassion.

And, I respect his right to an opinion. Yes, it appears insensitive at times. But, where is the sensitivity and compassion towards his early life plight and that of his mother? Did the world show them that? No.

Maybe if he and his mother received more compassion from the world back then, he would be more sensitive on this particular topic...and maybe others? I don't know, but I see a lot of people calling Gene a "this" and a "that" without any regard to his own internal suffering. He's just a human being who struggled from absolutely nothing to become a self-made man. If you read about Gene's early life experiences and that of his mother, you will be moved, if you don't already know about this.

I'm sure Prince himself had his own pain, too, otherwise he wouldn't have been taking painkillers. If you've seen Gene talk about his pain, genuine tears come....yes....all these years later. We should show compassion to both him and Prince.

Is it a contest about who is a better musician or is it really a litmus test for us to see if we can be compassionate equally towards these two suffering people?

LL

 

[Brad Johnson]

From what I have been reading, most people caught up in the current opioid epidemic here in the US were prescribed painkillers for legitimate reasons and became addicted.

Any of you guys ever had injuries where your doctor prescribed percocet or oxy? A good friend of mine who works in construction has back pain and refuses them even if his doctor recommends them because of the addiction possibility...I would do the same.

Prince was in his 50s and doing acrobatics on stage in high heels...reports are he had pain from that and he may have gotten legitimate prescriptions at first.

Either way, it's sad.

BTW anyone remember Ted Nugent calling Duane Allman an ******* for riding a motorcycle and getting himself killed?

Agreed, Brian.

The idea that someone who's in pain chooses to get addicted to drugs is an interesting one to say the least.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Disclosure: I'm not a fan of Kiss' music. BUT:

Gene Simmons has had his own trauma early in life. Regardless of whether or not he ever did drugs (which I guess he didn't), just as a human being he deserves our compassion.

And, I respect his right to an opinion. Yes, it appears insensitive at times. But, where is the sensitivity and compassion towards his early life plight and that of his mother? Did the world show them that? No.

Maybe if he and his mother received more compassion from the world back then, he would be more sensitive on this particular topic...and maybe others? I don't know, but I see a lot of people calling Gene a "this" and a "that" without any regard to his own internal suffering. He's just a human being who struggled from absolutely nothing to become a self-made man. If you read about Gene's early life experiences and that of his mother, you will be moved, if you don't already know about this.

I'm sure Prince himself had his own pain, too, otherwise he wouldn't have been taking painkillers. If you've seen Gene talk about his pain, genuine tears come....yes....all these years later. We should show compassion to both him and Prince.

Is it a contest about who is a better musician or is it really a litmus test for us to see if we can be compassionate equally towards these two suffering people?

LL

I don't know anything about whatever Gene went through. How that ties in with his ignorant remarks about Prince escapes me. Many people have gone through things... is that justification for crapping on others? In this case it didn't change a thing about Gene's history, it just seems like an incredibly classless thing to do. Which is nothing new for Gene from what I've seen.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Media sensationalism works. Case in point.
The title of the Rolling Stone article could just have easily read "Gene Saddened by Prince's Death" and just quoted his politically correct sentiments but that wouldn't have interested anyone...

Instead of just quoting what he said? Seriously?


Gene made the choice to say what he said... unless an autopsy proves otherwise.