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Wood choices and considerations

#221
mrperkolator said:
Do you think it would have a different reaction if it was clarified of impurities? (I've moved from practical to theoretical with this question)
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No, because it's the oil itself that turns. There may be ways to convert the oil so that it's stable and useful for wood treatment, but the cost of development and production, plus the high cost of olive oil as a raw material, kind of kills the point to even trying. We already have so many other oil treatments for wood, many of which are time-tested and fairly cheap. We don't really need one that would be expensive and of uncertain long-term value.
mrperkolator said:
Well....not a prank, but it wasn't what anyone would consider a great source. I knew asking that it wasn't an ideal solution either way. More of a curiosity.
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You didn't ask a stupid question. I've been hearing about using olive oil on wood both here and elsewhere for maybe two or three years now and it's one of those things, like Facebook memes, that can start to seem normal or obvious when people around you keep repeating it, despite its inherent problems.
 
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#222
As far as I understand it, all vegetable/nut/food oils in their natural form will go rancid. Oils like linseed, tung, walnut, etc. used as finishes are generally heat-treated and filtered to remove the perishable components. You might be able to do something similar with olive oil, but it would take some experimentation, and I'm not sure what it would get you that one of the existing finishing oils would not.
 
#223
I would strongly argue that non-drying oils have no place at all in stringed instrument construction or finishing. Mineral oil is great on a cutting board, since it is food safe and won't spoil.

I would also argue that even oil-based mixes with driers added - like most BLO or tung oil finish products - are pretty questionable these days. They work great if you're trying to do a period-correct refinish on a piece of furniture or something, but there are so many modern finishes that are so much better in every single way. Putting tung oil or BLO on a guitar is sort of like buying a 1950's car to use for daily transportation to work.
 
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#224
Max Bogosity said:
As far as I understand it, all vegetable/nut/food oils in their natural form will go rancid.
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Some food oils go rancid faster than others. eg, peanut oil turns faster than canola/rapeseed oil does. Invalid Link Removed seems to have data on how each of them behave but I can't see the useful data behind the paywall. If anybody has access through an academic link, let us know... I suspect the answer is that none of them, without added stabilizers anyway, are going to be good for the decades that an oil finish is expected to last on wood.
 
#225
dwizum said:
Putting tung oil or BLO on a guitar is sort of like buying a 1950's car to use for daily transportation to work.
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That's a pretty good analogy. Royal Enfield has made the same motorcycle essentially unchanged since the 1950s, still sells them by the thousands, and most of them are used for daily transportation in the Indian market. It has only a fraction of the performance of a modern motorcycle and breaks down if you look at it wrong, but it's easy to make, easy to ride, easy to fix, and has a certain retro appeal. Arguably about the same virtues as tung oil or BLO.
 
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#227
When I've used non-drying oils to finish kitchen or food-related items, I've always used food grade mineral oil. Cutting boards, spoons, spatulas, chopsticks, bowls, etc. There's also the heat-the-wood-and-rub-on-beeswax method for such things as well. For the same appearance on a surface but greater protection, I'm really liking Osmo Polyx as well. :thumbsup:
 
#228
dwizum said:
I would strongly argue that non-drying oils have no place at all in stringed instrument construction or finishing. Mineral oil is great on a cutting board, since it is food safe and won't spoil.

I would also argue that even oil-based mixes with driers added - like most BLO or tung oil finish products - are pretty questionable these days. They work great if you're trying to do a period-correct refinish on a piece of furniture or something, but there are so many modern finishes that are so much better in every single way. Putting tung oil or BLO on a guitar is sort of like buying a 1950's car to use for daily transportation to work.
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Out of modern finishes, particularly wipe on/rub on, what is your favorites to replace the 1950's car with a modern car?
 
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#229
mrperkolator said:
Out of modern finishes, particularly wipe on/rub on, what is your favorites to replace the 1950's car with a modern car?
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Minwax oil based wipe on poly in satin sheen. It has all the same basic characteristics as tru oil, BLO, and most tung oil finishes in that it goes on super easy and can be built up to a desired look, but it dries much more quickly, builds thickness much more quickly, and is much more durable. It has the same amber tint as pretty much all oil based finishes, which looks really nice and makes grain and figure pop really well.

With tru oil, you might put on 10-12 coats, with a day of drying each, plus a solid week or two at the end for it to finish curing. You're in it for two weeks. If you use the minwax poly instead, you can do two coats a day for two days - 4 total - then let it cure for a day, and end up with pretty much the same exact look and feel, but it'll be done in three days instead of two weeks, and it'll be more durable.

Varathane ultimate water based poly would get my nomination too, if you want zero VOC and a crystal clear result.
 
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#230
RichterScale said:
They had about 3-4 pieces of Kiaat (Muninga) so I looked it up. I read that it is very stable wood, very light for it's strength and not a wood that gets imported often, so it's rare to see. First thing I thought was I should grab a piece or 2. Actually, Id like a lot of it. A wood that's as light as poplar, but hard, stable and looks like black walnut? Yes please.
Unfortunately, every piece had grain runout and knots. The nicest piece with no knots had the worst runout.
I'd love to use this stuff for body cores and neck lams, but the runout made me think it's not great for a neck. Even lams.
Anyone work with it or have thoughts on the runout?
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Sorry for the rebump. Anyone ever work with Muninga, or have thoughts on wide boards with runout on both sides? Maybe okay for body parts?
 
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#232
So, I went back to Rockler, considered a few things and made some choices.
One thing I did not consider was their prices,....or I woulda walked out empty handed.
They had a cart that was full of padauk at one point (missed it last time) and had 5 pieces left on it.
My considerations for the kiaat (Muninga) was the strength : weight ratio and stability, but it had runout. They only had 5 pieces of that too and who knows if I'll ever see it again. So I took my chances on the best looking piece.
And the Peruvian walnut has the same properties and price of black walnut, but it's much darker. So, I decided to try a piece.
I'm going to sand down a section of the Kiaat and walnut and hit with mineral spirits to see what it looks like.
Next bass should be interesting. And once again, going in blind with a new design and woods I've never worked with.
 

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#236
Crawforde said:
Are you already planning a WBO build?
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I have an idea stuck in my head for the next WBO, but that could change several times. I picked the 3 different woods today for 3 different reasons, not necessarily to use together or with any plan. But now that I have them, I'm sure I'll try to think of ways to make them work together.
It was mostly that they only had a small selection of those woods and if I didn't get them now, they'd be gone and there's no telling when they'll get more delivered or what they'll get.
I mostly just wanted enough material for a few projects to get me through winter. But I'm sure this wood will end up being a WBO bass.
 
#240
Some interesting links came up on another site that I freqeuent...
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Steel wood (extra Scientific American article)
Wood nails

Very few product ideas make it from the laboratory to the shelves -- even when there's a potential market, its production usually doesn't scale upwards effectively from the workshop to the factory. But it's still interesting to think about.

What kinds of guitars could you make out of sheets of wood as strong as steel? I'm thinking that for starters it might be nice to have something to bend into shape as a fretless fingerboard. Then that gets me thinking about tubular necks, or designing bodies that can be hollowed without worrying about the usual damages bass string tension can cause.
 
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