112+210 vs. 112+112

[petergales]

I use an Aguilar GS112 on top of an Aguilar GS112NT. That gives a beautiful warm bass tone and I have the tweeter in the top cab if I need to add a bit of 'bite'

I use this combination with either my Aguilar DB751 or my Ampeg PF350 (for smaller gigs where I stack the Aggies on their side to save room). Bass heaven!

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I suggest assessing your needs first.

Do you have to go it alone, or do your venues have PA support? If they always have PA support, then all you need is something for you and the band to hear. Once you take into account ear plugs, it almost doesn't matter what it sounds like and if it combs, beams, or whatever. The first couple of rows of audience probably don't care either.

If you play small venues with no PA support, then this stuff is very important. Some cabs and stacks do mix driver sizes, but they are engineered as such. As mentioned earlier, if you mix sizes by chance, it is a crapshoot. Without engineering support, best to stick with the guaranteed solution, IE, stack same cabs and forget about the guy with a 410 a top a 15. He usually has PA support, and probably never wandered into the main house to hear his naked rig anyway.

 

[wmhill]

The common reaction on TB is to hate any mixed speaker configurations. While I have not used 10s/12s together I wouldn't be opposed to it. In 30 years of gigging I have come to like my (SWR son of bertha) 1x15 coupled with a (SWR goliath JR) 2x10. I have done single cabs, 4x10 (dual & single), dual 1x15 s etc.....yet the mixed pair is hands down my fave, and I get tons of love from other players about my tone. Haters are gonna hate (feed em beans...) but don't be afraid to try mixed drivers. Tecamp is one of the finest bass amp companies around- and they make mixed driver cabs, and I doubt they do that to make it sound bad.

 

[Mystic Michael]

Irrespective of anyone's alleged "hate" issues, the only substantive point here is that mixing unmatched, nonmated cabs of different sizes, types, structures, specifications, brands, etc. can often lead to unforeseen, unpredictable, and often undesirable results - nothing more, nothing less.

As for Tecamp, great company with great products. If their mixed-speaker cabs sound great, it may very well be because they were systematically designed and engineered to work that way - a condition that Coolhandjjl has already noted. Or it could be that they sound great in spite of having not been designed and engineered to work that way.

The same principle applies, regardless of make, model, prestige, or reputation - from Bergantino on down to Behringer. There's not much one can tell for sure other than that, without delving deeply into the acoustics of each cab and each component.

MM

 

[midichlorine]

yep, plenty of pro working bass players who have never laid eyes on talkbass and who have successfully worked for years have mixed cabs live.
some of the kings actually!

hell, for at least a decade or 2 people ran 1x15 and 4x10 setups and some still do (adam clayton)

its acceptable and totally normal to want this.

do it til you're satisfied and I promise you that the babes in the front row ( assuming you have babes in the front row) won't be able to tell the difference .

bass is fun and lets keep it that way!

 

[Rea]

My perspective is this: In art and flavor YOU dictate whats right. It takes a leap of faith on your beahalf to trust yourself. Mixed Cabs could very much be the way to go as that's the only way to fine tune your palette and not sound like few times the same cabinet you are duplicating. But for that you need to:
A. KNOW what you want to hear- Without that there is nothing to look for. Might aswell change occupation.
B. KNOW what each cabinet sounds like.

Only then you can mix and match like a fine chef in the kitchen. Same cab multiplied is going safe.

What happened to me today was a proof. I felt like the sound of the 210 is what's missing and even though i did not get much support to do that it turned out to be exactly want i was looking for. 2 similar cabs of 112 would have not get me there.

 

[friendlybass]

You know what sounds great with a 112? 2x8. Similar to my 210+115 setup, but with a lit more bunch and clarity. I know you already got a rig you like, just my 2 cents if you see a 2x8 cab around snap it up cause that is the mini rig my friend

 

[sloppy_phil]

Well, chipping in now is slightly moot since you've got your new cab (congrats, btw!), but I was at a similar crossroads a while back. Downsized a 4x10 to a 2x10, and then even went down to a 1x12. Had the 2x10 still kicking around, and tried pairing them up. The sound was alright, but nothing too special. It seemed like maybe they weren't going to play nice with each other when I started to turn the volume up a fair bit (though I didn't get to test this with a band), so I ended up grabbing another 1x12. No regrets here. Hope you find yourself similarly lacking!

 

[Rea]

I suppose it depends on several things, the cab models and design philosophy, the amp, and your taste/sound your going for..
Were they part of a same series of cabs?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Vertically stacking your 2x10 is going to project your tone much wider than the other way. So what if the logo badge is sideways?

 

[MDBass]

I hear you. So ill be real specific as this is on the table.

Considering i am using the cabinets/drivers from the same manufacture/line (Aggy GS in this case), Were they not designed to interact?

Case in point: I feel that my GS112 is not focused enough but has a sweet warm low end, are the 210's, from that same series model, not going to give me the most natural answer to solving this, by introducing the more mid focused behavior of the 10's?

Yep. The GS112's are very sweet and warm but not what anyone would call 'punchy'.

Sell the GS, pick up a pair of DB112's and call it a day

 

[MDBass]

OK-
I brought in a GS210 to go with my GS112. Its what i was looking for. They compliment exactly how i hoped they would. the 2x10's bring the mid growl and the 1x12 adds the nice round bottom end. Glad i did this.

Only problem is that they dont align size wise unless i put the 210 vertical. Not sure they were meant to project sound in such a way..

Glad to here this worked out!

Vertical speakers arrays ALWAYS work better, lots of more technical minded folks around here will tell you why.

Don't change a thing

 

[Rea]

Yep. The GS112's are very sweet and warm but not what anyone would call 'punchy'.

Sell the GS, pick up a pair of DB112's and call it a day

I have added the GS210 and it really sounds right. I need few more days to play around with this in order to give true feedback on it.
I am very surprised there is not one place in NYC, the MECCA of bass,where you can compare configurations... its strange... Buying and selling sure isn't the best to find out

 

[Rea]

Glad to here this worked out!

Vertical speakers arrays ALWAYS work better, lots of more technical minded folks around here will tell you why.

Don't change a thing

So why are they sold as a horizontal orientation...? And while on that, can you explain why vertical should work better?

 

[MDBass]

So why are they sold as a horizontal orientation...? And while on that, can you explain why vertical should work better?

Better dispersion, less phasing/beaming etc.

Essentially the output of each speaker isn't interfering with the other...more clarity, less mud, and more consistent tone whether you're standing directly in front or off to the side.

 

[Downunderwonder]

So why are they sold as a horizontal orientation...? And while on that, can you explain why vertical should work better?

Badge orientation is a marketing decision. Good luck finding anyone in marketing who can explain why it's good to have vertical alignment.

Side by side sources of sound take a straight path to the listener. When the extra distance to the far away one reaches half a wavelength of the interesting frequency there is cancellation. This is called comb filtering.

Above the beam frequency the comb becomes a simple hot zone of response within a narrow horizontal field.

Individual speaker has its own combing effect from opposite sides of the cone.

If you put your rig all laid flat across the stage and walk the room you will hear how vastly the sound changes from front to sides. If you don't you're deaf to it like Jimmy.

 

[Real Soon]

I see you matched the 210 & 112 via the thread, cool.

But it's obvious that you had your heart set on the 210 and had zero intention of letting anyone talk you out of it, valid points about the unknowns or not. Hopefully it works out as a best-case scenario.

As for why 2x10 cabs are sold with the logo placed as if it should go horizontally...very likely an arbitrary convention, sort of like the QWERTY keyboard, based on some idea that one person had that caught on. Seeing as you're kind of a Doubting Debbie in here, no: I don't have hard proof or science on that. But I do have my Hartke cab, with the logo that reads horizontally but with the info on the back (like input, extension out, resistance) written vertically. That tells me that they don't necessarily intend the cab to be placed horizontally at all. Or vertically, in case you want to place a pair of 2x10s on each other flat. They don't tell you how to make your sound, just give you the means to do it.

Just like the QWERTY keyboard, illogical as it is, doesn't tell you what words to type, only the means to do so with all its little foibles.

 

[Rea]

Hey Bro- I don't doubt Debbie, maybe Sarah, but that's another story...
Also, saying my heart was set on this or that is a bit rude and intrusive... however, i did feel that i need the sound of 210's and not another 12. Sorry for having a personal taste.

 

[walterw]

What happened to me today was a proof. I felt like the sound of the 210 is what's missing and even though i did not get much support to do that it turned out to be exactly want i was looking for. 2 similar cabs of 112 would have not get me there.

and just how do you know that? you said it yourself...

Unfortunately i do not have an opportunity to hear these 2 options side by side...

...which means you have no idea if that's true or not.

what you have figured out is that two cabs usually kicks butt over one, mixed or not; we're all with you on that one.

the best advice at this point if you really wanted to nail the perfect stack would be to listen to each cab by itself, decide which one sounded the best to you, then try two of those.

(i have a feeling you might just be a "10s guy", in which case ditching the 12" and putting a second matching 2x10 underneath the first one, all stacked vertically, would kick butt.)

 

[Rea]

I can tell you that when i am listening to each Cab on its own and then together i can tell exactly what each contributes to the final picture. What is this? doubtfest? are you guys out of your minds? Ive been making a living with these ears for 30 years. Find another tree to bark at.