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2013 Ampeg V-4B 100W Reissue

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When it comes to running the amp on 6550, the question that we should be asking is not how to perform a 6550 conversion on a 6L6 amp. (The fact that this question even comes up does indicate that somebody senses a potential problem with 6L6.)
It doesn't indicate that at all. Look at the post again:
a question for Ampeg; will the new amp take 6550's safely, like the old models did? or would it need a separate filament tranny? i know it won't buy me any more power (and i don't want more, frankly). no, i'm interested in them them as a tonal option, to get closer to an svt's more wide open, deeper vibe. an original fitted with 6550's is a thing of beauty to my ears, and every bit as hip as a stock unit with 6L6's.
It doesn't indicate any more of a potential problem with the 6L6 than the 7027s, which people have indeed sometimes replaced.

ETA: I'm all for informed skepticism, but you might be trying too hard.
 
> "So the idea is to stick tubes in there that run too hot for the chassis and just barely fit and then add a 3rd tranny to it to make sure the tubes run too hot for the chassis? Where's the payoff? Starting a fire is not much of a payoff if you ask me."

Yes, the conversion would use a 3rd tranny, just like an SVT. ;)
Right, well that's the difference between a 300w tube PT and a 100w tube PT.

You know, doing a 6550 conversion on this amp wasn't *my* idea -- I'm only pointing out important reasons for why it's not a good idea to try to shoehorn 6550 into an amp that's designed for lesser tubes, and the reasons I mentioned are the really important reasons that the Ampeg people should not have left out. Seeing the most important information get left out gives me pause.
I think the mention of fire is enough to dissuade most people ;)

Anyway, I thought for a second you might be in favor of a 6550 conversion. Must have misread. I do that sometimes.

When it comes to running the amp on 6550, the question that we should be asking is not how to perform a 6550 conversion on a 6L6 amp. (The fact that this question even comes up does indicate that somebody senses a potential problem with 6L6.)

The real question that needs to be asked is that if suitable 7027 aren't available to perform an accurate reissue, then why wasn't the amp designed around a 6550 in the first place? We already know that today's 6L6 aren't what they used to be and they aren't 7027 either. 6L6 are going to require a voltage reduction in order to stay alive, and that brings up the question of why if Ampeg decided that a tube specification change was required to reissue the amp, then why didn't they make an incremental move up to a 6550 instead of making an incremental move down to a 6L6? Number crunching tube geeks who understand how numbers effect tone & reliability want to know.
Well of course I'm the wrong guy to ask, but I suspect that it's because the 6L6 is the closest tube to the 7027 and it's made in good enough quantity for Ampeg to do a wide-release amp.

I would, however, disagree about current 6L6's vs. NOS. They may not work as long as old tubes, but so far I've swapped JJ's, Rubys, Sovteks, GE and RCA grey plates through both my B-15N and 73 Super Reverb, and I honestly can't tell a sonic difference with any of them. Not about to be buying $100 single power tubes, either.

On the subject of buying the new amp, I have to admit, I'm a little bummed that the announcement for this amp came out a week after I bought a pair of SVT-2 Pro. Sometimes the timing just doesn't work out. That said, I'll be eager to hear your review after you get the product. I'm enough of a nerd that I want to know how the B+ voltages have been worked out before making a decision about whether or not I want to own the new design/implementation.
I hear ya. I just bought a Heritage SVT and 810e and swore I would only get one or the other. That lasted all of 3 days after I saw the V4B.
 
When it comes to running the amp on 6550, the question that we should be asking is not how to perform a 6550 conversion on a 6L6 amp. (The fact that this question even comes up does indicate that somebody senses a potential problem with 6L6.)

The real question that needs to be asked is that if suitable 7027 aren't available to perform an accurate reissue, then why wasn't the amp designed around a 6550 in the first place?

The question was asked because some people did the conversion to their original V4s (I'm one of them) and preferred the tone, not because of a perceived shortfall of a 6L6-based amp. Ampeg designed the new one around 6L6's because that is closer to the original than 6550s. If they were reissuing the V5/SVT-100 then sure, 6550s all day. But it's a V4B. The tubes may not be what they were, but as said a few times, given the availability of supply designing the amp around the readily available 6L6GC seems like it was a better choice for consumers in the long run.
 
There really is no sub for wattage, is there? Even at my piddly volumes, the SVT is like a bomb blast of bass that fills a room in such an awesome and unique way and stays clean and uncompressed. But if I can use a B-15, I can use a V4B so I'm good.
 
I don't think I would be too bummed about that. I had an early 70s V4 and an SVT 2 Pro. I sold the V4 and still have the SVT 2 Pro....

I moved in both directions on this one. I traded my V4 for a similar age SVT. Missed the lower wattage amp enough that I ended up getting a Sound City 120 and lately I've been considering dumping the SC for another V4.
 
I would, however, disagree about current 6L6's vs. NOS. They may not work as long as old tubes, but so far I've swapped JJ's, Rubys, Sovteks, GE and RCA grey plates through both my B-15N and 73 Super Reverb, and I honestly can't tell a sonic difference with any of them.

Jimmy, the observations of your ears are backed up by science. ;)

We recently had a discussion on one of the designers' sites about not being able to tell different brands of tubes apart by ear. My stance on the subject was that unless you're pushing the amp hard then you can't tell the tubes apart -- it's only when the amps get pushed into hard clipping that the differences between tubes become really obvious and tonally significant.

The reason for this is that the negative feedback loop is designed to compensate for any of the differences that may be exhibited by the different tubes; it's designed to zero-out those differences. As long as the feedback loop is working and it's gain hasn't been exceeded, then the different tubes should sound the same. Things fall apart when you exceed the capabilities of the NFB loop, so when you drive the amp really hard, that's when the differences become noticable.

If you can't tell the tubes apart in your amp, I'd wager that you're using your amps reasonably, not pushing them over their limits like a guitard, and the tubes sound the same to you because you're not exceeding the capabilities of the NFB circuit. If you really wanted to be able to tell the tubes apart, disconnecting the NFB loop would make the differences rather obvious, as the distortion would occur a lot sooner. But you probably would not like that kind of tone anyway.
 
a question for Ampeg; will the new amp take 6550's safely, like the old models did? or would it need a separate filament tranny? i know it won't buy me any more power (and i don't want more, frankly). no, i'm interested in them them as a tonal option, to get closer to an svt's more wide open, deeper vibe. an original fitted with 6550's is a thing of beauty to my ears, and every bit as hip as a stock unit with 6L6's.
It doesn't indicate any more of a potential problem with the 6L6 than the 7027s, which people have indeed sometimes replaced.

ETA: I'm all for informed skepticism, but you might be trying too hard.

i don't understand what you're saying here....
 
I don't think I would be too bummed about that. I had an early 70s V4 and an SVT 2 Pro. I sold the V4 and still have the SVT 2 Pro....

well, it's not like I'm cryin' about having bought the 2 Pro. :D Given the street price of the new V4-B and the used price that I paid for the 2 Pro, I still would have bought the 2 Pro because dollars are dollars and watts are watts, and those things matter!
 
Jimmy, the observations of your ears are backed up by science. ;)

We recently had a discussion on one of the designers' sites about not being able to tell different brands of tubes apart by ear. My stance on the subject was that unless you're pushing the amp hard then you can't tell the tubes apart -- it's only when the amps get pushed into hard clipping that the differences between tubes become really obvious and tonally significant.

The reason for this is that the negative feedback loop is designed to compensate for any of the differences that may be exhibited by the different tubes; it's designed to zero-out those differences. As long as the feedback loop is working and it's gain hasn't been exceeded, then the different tubes should sound the same. Things fall apart when you exceed the capabilities of the NFB loop, so when you drive the amp really hard, that's when the differences become noticable.

If you can't tell the tubes apart in your amp, I'd wager that you're using your amps reasonably, not pushing them over their limits like a guitard, and the tubes sound the same to you because you're not exceeding the capabilities of the NFB circuit. If you really wanted to be able to tell the tubes apart, disconnecting the NFB loop would make the differences rather obvious, as the distortion would occur a lot sooner. But you probably would not like that kind of tone anyway.
Ya, I'm no amp tweaker. I've done a little tube rolling, though, and the only time I've ever gotten a difference is in V1 preamp of any amp I've done it in, and most of the time I don't get much of a difference either, though there have been notable exceptions where I got huge differences, such as comparing Sylvania 6SL7's to Sovtek, or a NOS Russian 6N1P vs. a Sovtek in my REDDI. Actually preferred the Sovtek in my REDDI because the NOS tube gave it overly aggressive lows and came across a little muddy sometimes.

Under normal circumstances I don't crank my amps, but I do it sometimes, and I always crank when I swap tubes in the B-15 and Super. Still don't hear much of a difference in power tubes.
 
I moved in both directions on this one. I traded my V4 for a similar age SVT. Missed the lower wattage amp enough that I ended up getting a Sound City 120 and lately I've been considering dumping the SC for another V4.

Well, I wouldn't have let my V4 go if it was my only option in the 100'ish watt range. But, I also have a '73 Traynor YBA-3 and I finally had to admit to myself that I would never play the V4 as long as I had that Traynor, so the V4 went to a new home and I haven't missed it yet. :hiding:

Now, with my vintage SVT, my SVT 2 Pro, my B-15R and my Traynor, I feel pretty replete in all categories. The only thing I'd like to add is a Traynor YBA-3A, if I can ever find one at the same time I have some available cash.
 
Question: I'm checking out the Winged C 6L6GCs on tubedepot.com, and they list prices in matched pairs. Do I just buy 2 matched pairs, or do all 4 need to be matched? Still not sure I'm going to go for different tubes, but thinking about it.

Thanks,
Liam
 
Question: I'm checking out the Winged C 6L6GCs on tubedepot.com, and they list prices in matched pairs. Do I just buy 2 matched pairs, or do all 4 need to be matched? Still not sure I'm going to go for different tubes, but thinking about it.

Thanks,
Liam

In the notes on the order page just note you need a matched quad and they will take care of it. Don't wait too long though, winged "C"s are disappearing from reports.
 
In the notes on the order page just note you need a matched quad and they will take care of it. Don't wait too long though, winged "C"s are disappearing from reports.

Thanks. I just went ahead and ordered a quad. Even if I don't switch them out immediately, it can't hurt to have a set of power tubes on hand, and the Winged Cs are really good from all reports I've seen.

Cheers,
Liam
 
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