3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

[LanciaY10]

He has been gambling on the "one man operation" motto for years to justify the prices, the delayed productions even when it was at its higher rate before 2020. But one man operations don't work with capitalism, and people always wanting more in general.

We've got another example of that in Europe: Mark Vanderkley. Same success story, one man operation, and now gone.

The problem with outsourcing is you're handcuffed by other companies. You have nothing else to do but relying less on outsourcing by investing on production machinery and labors. He would have been less prone to those "burn outs", to those problems with outsourcing.

You can invest on labors and production machinery and still be a boutique business model. I mean, I think at one point in his prime in 2016-2018 he was able to do it to survive. He gambled, and now he's loosing the game. The only thing that he brought with all that mess is speculators, everywhere here in the classifieds or on Reverb. I mean... at one point a Octabvre MKII was listed $ 1800.

He's aware of that, does he care ? seeing an Octabvre MK3 here selling for more than it was sold as new is not normal. I know, it's "capitalism", "human behaviors". But don't complain when you had opportunities you did not want to seize because you wanted to show you're the "White Knight" in this pedal business, how many times has he been whining and raging about Darkglass ? White Knights don't do that.

 

[T McClure]

He has been gambling on the "one man operation" motto for years to justify the prices, the delayed productions even when it was at its higher rate before 2020. But one man operations don't work with capitalism, and people always wanting more in general.

We've got another example of that in Europe: Mark Vanderkley. Same success story, one man operation, and now gone.

The problem with outsourcing is you're handcuffed by other companies. You have nothing else to do but relying less on outsourcing by investing on production machinery and labors. He would have been less prone to those "burn outs", to those problems with outsourcing.

You can invest on labors and production machinery and still be a boutique business model. I mean, I think at one point in his prime in 2016-2018 he was able to do it to survive. He gambled, and now he's loosing the game. The only thing that he brought with all that mess is speculators, everywhere here in the classifieds or on Reverb. I mean... at one point a Octabvre MKII was listed $ 1800.

He's aware of that, does he care ? seeing an Octabvre MK3 here selling for more than it was sold as new is not normal. I know, it's "capitalism", "human behaviors". But don't complain when you had opportunities you did not want to seize because you wanted to show you're the "White Knight" in this pedal business, how many times has he been whining and raging about Darkglass ? White Knights don't do that.

How did he gamble and lose? Every release of his sells out quickly.

 

[LanciaY10]

How did he gamble and lose? Every release of his sells out quickly.

Not EVERY as people points out here ... as far as I'm reading here, and also as my newletters' sub shows (because I'm a subscriber of 3Leaf Audio and I've used its pedals for years), not EVERY.

EDIT: by "not EVERY" I mean here he has delayed some, and seems to struggle mentally. Looks like loosing something to me: your mental sanity.

 

[Erithon]

He has been gambling on the "one man operation" motto for years to justify the prices, the delayed productions even when it was at its higher rate before 2020. But one man operations don't work with capitalism, and people always wanting more in general.

We've got another example of that in Europe: Mark Vanderkley. Same success story, one man operation, and now gone.

The problem with outsourcing is you're handcuffed by other companies. You have nothing else to do but relying less on outsourcing by investing on production machinery and labors. He would have been less prone to those "burn outs", to those problems with outsourcing.

You can invest on labors and production machinery and still be a boutique business model. I mean, I think at one point in his prime in 2016-2018 he was able to do it to survive. He gambled, and now he's loosing the game. The only thing that he brought with all that mess is speculators, everywhere here in the classifieds or on Reverb. I mean... at one point a Octabvre MKII was listed $ 1800.

He's aware of that, does he care ? seeing an Octabvre MK3 here selling for more than it was sold as new is not normal. I know, it's "capitalism", "human behaviors". But don't complain when you had opportunities you did not want to seize because you wanted to show you're the "White Knight" in this pedal business, how many times has he been whining and raging about Darkglass ? White Knights don't do that.

Not EVERY as people points out here ... as far as I'm reading here, and also as my newletters' sub shows (because I'm a subscriber of 3Leaf Audio and I've used its pedals for years), not EVERY.

View attachment 7481976
View attachment 7481977

EDIT: by "not EVERY" I mean here he has delayed some, and seems to struggle mentally. Looks like loosing something to me: your mental sanity.

What a bizarre diptych of posts. They're riddled with assumptions and unfounded statements. You assert that:

• Spencer "would have been less prone to those 'burn outs'" if he had made different business choices
• he "gambled" and is "loosing the game" and "the only thing that he brought [sic] with all that mess is speculators"
• some delayed releases mean not all releases sell out quickly

Let's start with this last one since it is by far the oddest. First, a delay in a release is independent from how quickly a release sells out. Second, 3 Leaf Audio releases continue to sell out in a matter of days, if not seconds or hours. That is wildly successful. He is not "loosing."

It is also absurd to claim that "the only thing that he brought [sic] with all that mess is speculators." While I agree much of the communication from the company is a mess, it's reductive to extend that category to all aspects of the business. The pedals themselves, for example, are not a mess. They are--judging by general consensus and demand--objects of high quality and utility. Indeed, that very demand attests that Spencer has done more than just produce "speculators:" his pedals have earned a positive reputation and generated so much demand that the secondhand market outprices the new market. (Also, in the interest of precision, these are not "speculators" since the market for 3 Leaf Audio is well established; it is more accurate to call them "flippers.")

Now I'll address your first claim: namely, that Spencer "would have been less prone to those 'burn outs'" if he had made different business choices. You have no idea why Spencer posted about feeling burned out the other month. You do not know what is happening in his life. There is not enough evidence to conclude that it is his business decisions that led to that outcome. Sure, it could be the size of the release relative to his one-man operation (though it's actually "two-man" since his wife is involved). Or it could be something else entirely and the release is one manifestion. All of us are holistic individuals, and it could well be that something in another area of his life impacted his business. Or maybe he just experiences seasonal depression. Frankly, it doesn't matter. Even if there were enough evidence to draw a conclusion, I think it is inappropriate to interrogate that in a public forum.

My history of posts in this thread testify that I'm no fan of how 3 Leaf Audio has historically operated, and I agree with you that its business model is unable to meet demand. But these two posts are full of irresponsible assumptions. And seemingly came out of nowhere. You made a TalkBass account less than two weeks ago and then dropped these two rather provocative posts with no context. To what end? I mean, sure, it's the internet so you can do this. But it's also an ... unusual way to introduce oneself. You say you've owned 3 Leaf Audio pedals for years so I hope you stick around. Seriously, welcome to TalkBass and this thread Just maybe rein in your assumptions about the mental health of strangers, you know?

 

[mouthmw]

I'd sure love to be "loosing" by selling out nearly every release within a minute.

 

[WG Plum]

I have plenty of thoughts about Spencer and 3Leaf, but not being successful is definitely not of them. If anything, he's crushing it in spite of himself.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

The guy is unique and he makes cool stuff. Seems to play by his own rules, which I respect. I’ve expressed my displeasure with certain aspects of the business model, but he’s doing something i am not capable of doing so there’s that. Takes all kinds. Id like to think he’s not done yet.

 

[davedamage]

The guy is unique and he makes cool stuff. Seems to play by his own rules, which I respect. I’ve expressed my displeasure with certain aspects of the business model, but he’s doing something i am not capable of doing so there’s that. Takes all kinds. Id like to think he’s not done yet.

Meh. You can do things that LOTS of people can't do. You're not a **** about it.

 

[davedamage]

But, nothing has kept me from buying the stuff. So, there's that...

 

[WG Plum]

But, nothing has kept me from buying the stuff. So, there's that...

In my case availability/used prices in the past, lack of interest/other things more recently. I did like the Enabler that I had, though.

 

[davedamage]

I think I paid $145 for the OG You're Doom here waaaaaaay back. I only ended up getting a Doom2 when I found one for a reasonable price. I went through a couple of Protons before landing a V4 and I got the Octabvre on a drop just to finish the trifecta. Don't think I've used any of them for more than 5-10 minutes but can't bring myself to part with them when I have other cannon fodder that needs to go first. However, there is nothing attaching me to the Proton or Octabvre. I have more preferred filters and octaves that are already not getting used.

 

[WG Plum]

I think I had a big box Octavre back in the day, and the second, smaller, version, probably around the same time I tried a Broughctave (sp?). Loooong time ago now.

 

[warptheory]

I think I had a big box Octavre back in the day, and the second, smaller, version, probably around the same time I tried a Broughctave (sp?). Loooong time ago now.

You've had the Broughctave?!?!? How does it compare to 3Leaf/Subsonic/BossOC2/etc?

 

[warptheory]

I kid with that pic, but am genuinely interested.

 

[meisi]

crushing it in spite of (my)self.

I need a tshirt and bumper sticker with this on it, asap.

 

[the baint]

I’ve had these two for quite a while, in the before times when each was ~$150. I was sad I didn’t get the blue/teal version of the Octabvre mini because I like neon colors, but these two were a workhorse pair back when I was playing out.

I’ve wanted to nab a Proton v4 at a steal to complete the synth sound, but haven’t been able find one at a cost I can justify.

Always thankful for Spenser’s work. I understand the frustrations, but I’d much rather he is able to put the occasional run of pedals out and handle his life than drop it all together. I’m glad he has found a way to make it work and to not be controlled the demand of industry.

 

[jbybj]

He has been gambling on the "one man operation" motto for years to justify the prices, the delayed productions even when it was at its higher rate before 2020. But one man operations don't work with capitalism, and people always wanting more in general.

We've got another example of that in Europe: Mark Vanderkley. Same success story, one man operation, and now gone.

The problem with outsourcing is you're handcuffed by other companies. You have nothing else to do but relying less on outsourcing by investing on production machinery and labors. He would have been less prone to those "burn outs", to those problems with outsourcing.

You can invest on labors and production machinery and still be a boutique business model. I mean, I think at one point in his prime in 2016-2018 he was able to do it to survive. He gambled, and now he's loosing the game. The only thing that he brought with all that mess is speculators, everywhere here in the classifieds or on Reverb. I mean... at one point a Octabvre MKII was listed $ 1800.

He's aware of that, does he care ? seeing an Octabvre MK3 here selling for more than it was sold as new is not normal. I know, it's "capitalism", "human behaviors". But don't complain when you had opportunities you did not want to seize because you wanted to show you're the "White Knight" in this pedal business, how many times has he been whining and raging about Darkglass ? White Knights don't do that.

I’ve always considered it unwise to assume another’s motives and goals.

 

[Bassheart365]

Welcome to the Spencer psychoanalysis thread.

 

[LanciaY10]

What a bizarre diptych of posts. They're riddled with assumptions and unfounded statements. You assert that:

• Spencer "would have been less prone to those 'burn outs'" if he had made different business choices
• he "gambled" and is "loosing the game" and "the only thing that he brought [sic] with all that mess is speculators"
• some delayed releases mean not all releases sell out quickly

Let's start with this last one since it is by far the oddest. First, a delay in a release is independent from how quickly a release sells out. Second, 3 Leaf Audio releases continue to sell out in a matter of days, if not seconds or hours. That is wildly successful. He is not "loosing."

It is also absurd to claim that "the only thing that he brought [sic] with all that mess is speculators." While I agree much of the communication from the company is a mess, it's reductive to extend that category to all aspects of the business. The pedals themselves, for example, are not a mess. They are--judging by general consensus and demand--objects of high quality and utility. Indeed, that very demand attests that Spencer has done more than just produce "speculators:" his pedals have earned a positive reputation and generated so much demand that the secondhand market outprices the new market. (Also, in the interest of precision, these are not "speculators" since the market for 3 Leaf Audio is well established; it is more accurate to call them "flippers.")

Now I'll address your first claim: namely, that Spencer "would have been less prone to those 'burn outs'" if he had made different business choices. You have no idea why Spencer posted about feeling burned out the other month. You do not know what is happening in his life. There is not enough evidence to conclude that it is his business decisions that led to that outcome. Sure, it could be the size of the release relative to his one-man operation (though it's actually "two-man" since his wife is involved). Or it could be something else entirely and the release is one manifestion. All of us are holistic individuals, and it could well be that something in another area of his life impacted his business. Or maybe he just experiences seasonal depression. Frankly, it doesn't matter. Even if there were enough evidence to draw a conclusion, I think it is inappropriate to interrogate that in a public forum.

My history of posts in this thread testify that I'm no fan of how 3 Leaf Audio has historically operated, and I agree with you that its business model is unable to meet demand. But these two posts are full of irresponsible assumptions. And seemingly came out of nowhere. You made a TalkBass account less than two weeks ago and then dropped these two rather provocative posts with no context. To what end? I mean, sure, it's the internet so you can do this. But it's also an ... unusual way to introduce oneself. You say you've owned 3 Leaf Audio pedals for years so I hope you stick around. Seriously, welcome to TalkBass and this thread Just maybe rein in your assumptions about the mental health of strangers, you know?

No context ? did you read well ? first, I've been an owner and a user of some his pedals for years before he decided to stop the worldwide distribution. And second I've read all his whining and complaints about Darkglass, that was really wrong. So because I'm only here since 2 weeks you mean I'm nothing right ? that's what you mean ? You only know me here, but hey... that's fine, I've been an intermittent, means a pro for at least 2 decades, band leader, producer, released various EPs on Bandcamp (like... many others I guess !) I'm 52, and have probably use way more different gears than you because I'm european, means we have access to all the US/Asian/South America stuff + the euro ones you've never heard about.

Anasounds ?

Val Martins ?

Chillbass ?

Alpine Basses ?

H-Labs ?

FT Elletronica ?

Becos ?

 

[WG Plum]

No context ? did you read well ? first, I've been an owner and a user of some his pedals for years before he decided to stop the worldwide distribution. And second I've read all his whining and complaints about Darkglass, that was really wrong. So because I'm only here since 2 weeks you mean I'm nothing right ? that's what you mean ? You only know me here, but hey... that's fine, I've been an intermittent, means a pro for at least 2 decades, band leader, producer, released various EPs on Bandcamp (like... many others I guess !) I'm 52, and have probably use way more different gears than you because I'm european, means we have access to all the US/Asian/South America stuff + the euro ones you've never heard about.

Anasounds ?

Val Martins ?

Chillbass ?

Alpine Basses ?

H-Labs ?

FT Elletronica ?

Becos ?

You’ll find some folks here have pretty deep experience, regardless of their location. I’m not a fan of Spencer’s, but I think you’re a little out of pocket in this.