A promoter once wanted to withhold 50% for taxes. That didn’t go well. These guys will try anything if they feel they can get away with it.
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90 miles for $200.00? Reasonable?
- Thread starter glocke1
- Start date
Its not just gas... its wear and tear. Even at $0.50/mile for vehicle use you've used up almost half of your pay just to get there and back. So that leaves about $110 for your time and performance. Figure 3 hours of driving after 15 minutes of loading gear at home... and unloading gear at home puts you at 3.5hrs for the commute. Even if you only want ten bucks an hour (half what a waiter makes) that takes up another $35 of the pay so now you're down to $75 for your performance and use of your gear.
Now dont get me wrong... ive driven to another state to play for free because its fun so Id totally do it. But if youre asking if its "worth it", my answer is no.
Now dont get me wrong... ive driven to another state to play for free because its fun so Id totally do it. But if youre asking if its "worth it", my answer is no.
There seems to be a few camps of players just saying what they would do. And we don't really know what camp you're in just yet:
A) Working Musicians who will take any work they can get; if it's simply down to either working or not working: Make The Money
B) Those who are still used to the musical minimum wage of $100/gig, who would gladly take a $200 gig.
C) Working Musicians who have grown accustomed to making a fair wage for their craft, place a slightly higher value on their time, and have the option to turn down work that isn't really worth it for them.
D) Hobbyists who are more proned to pick and choose gigs based on what would be "worthwhile" in their own personal sense.
I fall somewhere between A and C.
Currently I'm very used to making at least $200 a gig (though that doesn't mean I always do). Most weekend gigs yield more than that. Weddings are typically a premium, as are various other gigs.
I also drive a lot, but rarely too far (unless I'm going on a road trip for fun). Lots of 75-120 hour drives from Philly to various shore points. I'm also fairly young and enjoy driving.
At the end of the day, I expect to at least make "decent" money, and I'm extremely fortunate that I currently do.
HOWEVER, I don't forget where I came from, and work is work. Sometimes you gotta hustle.
But there also comes a time where you need to start prioritizing your time/needs and to begin placing greater value on your time/needs.
It's a fleeting spectrum at best, and it all really depends on what your needs are. Not all gigs are about the money. There's a level of "musical nirvana" that is rarely achieved on a typical cover gig, and I'll gladly play for free if it means that type of experience. On the other hand, sometimes I'm simply too worn out to squeeze in extra work and I need to rest whenever I can.
Ideally, you've simply learned to develop a solid instinct that helps you make decisions, even when things seem uncertain, that thing inside you will know.
I'd probably take the gig haha.
Edit: Then again it depends haha. If it's a season where I'm up to my neck in work and along comes this willy nilly gig that may or may not pay out, that doesn't have a clear beginning and end time, that seems like a potentially unprofessional mess, I might be too grumpy and impatient and just pass and choose to spend my time doing something more productive, like sleeping.
Or if it's during an off season, and I'm game for an adventure? Hell, screw it, let's see what happens.
A) Working Musicians who will take any work they can get; if it's simply down to either working or not working: Make The Money
B) Those who are still used to the musical minimum wage of $100/gig, who would gladly take a $200 gig.
C) Working Musicians who have grown accustomed to making a fair wage for their craft, place a slightly higher value on their time, and have the option to turn down work that isn't really worth it for them.
D) Hobbyists who are more proned to pick and choose gigs based on what would be "worthwhile" in their own personal sense.
I fall somewhere between A and C.
Currently I'm very used to making at least $200 a gig (though that doesn't mean I always do). Most weekend gigs yield more than that. Weddings are typically a premium, as are various other gigs.
I also drive a lot, but rarely too far (unless I'm going on a road trip for fun). Lots of 75-120 hour drives from Philly to various shore points. I'm also fairly young and enjoy driving.
At the end of the day, I expect to at least make "decent" money, and I'm extremely fortunate that I currently do.
HOWEVER, I don't forget where I came from, and work is work. Sometimes you gotta hustle.
But there also comes a time where you need to start prioritizing your time/needs and to begin placing greater value on your time/needs.
It's a fleeting spectrum at best, and it all really depends on what your needs are. Not all gigs are about the money. There's a level of "musical nirvana" that is rarely achieved on a typical cover gig, and I'll gladly play for free if it means that type of experience. On the other hand, sometimes I'm simply too worn out to squeeze in extra work and I need to rest whenever I can.
Ideally, you've simply learned to develop a solid instinct that helps you make decisions, even when things seem uncertain, that thing inside you will know.
I'd probably take the gig haha.
Edit: Then again it depends haha. If it's a season where I'm up to my neck in work and along comes this willy nilly gig that may or may not pay out, that doesn't have a clear beginning and end time, that seems like a potentially unprofessional mess, I might be too grumpy and impatient and just pass and choose to spend my time doing something more productive, like sleeping.
Or if it's during an off season, and I'm game for an adventure? Hell, screw it, let's see what happens.
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A lot of these informal polls are always answered, "it depends." If you're a sideman with a busy calendar, maybe not. If the booker/band leader/venue is important to your income, probably.
Using all expenses including amortizing purchase price, insurance and maintenance, the AAA says that your trip will cost about 108$. Using a 7 hour work day with the fourish hours of driving and 3ish hours on the gig, you're going to be at around $15 per hour. I don't know about PA but here in So Cal that's still quite a bit more than minimum wage. I LIKE playing and miss playing out (I play solitary instruments for pleasure now) so I say yeah, it's worth it to me. Like others said, carpool, pay for at least half the gas and the dinner and you'll both still be further ahead financially.
Using all expenses including amortizing purchase price, insurance and maintenance, the AAA says that your trip will cost about 108$. Using a 7 hour work day with the fourish hours of driving and 3ish hours on the gig, you're going to be at around $15 per hour. I don't know about PA but here in So Cal that's still quite a bit more than minimum wage. I LIKE playing and miss playing out (I play solitary instruments for pleasure now) so I say yeah, it's worth it to me. Like others said, carpool, pay for at least half the gas and the dinner and you'll both still be further ahead financially.
Our BL booked us at a Wedding in Crested Butte this summer. That’s a 5 hour drive from Denver and lodging up there ranges from not inexpensive to crazy. I’m not sure what the pay is (probably about $350 per), but I’ll put $75 in gas into my car to get there and back.
Luckily I sold my wife on making a weekend of it. I wanted to kill the BL; I think we should all weigh in on gigs a certain distance away.
Luckily I sold my wife on making a weekend of it. I wanted to kill the BL; I think we should all weigh in on gigs a certain distance away.
As far as I’m concerned, not enough information to advise you. Here’s what I mean:
Are you on the verge of homelessness? Could $200 mean the difference between making rent or not?
Or, do you have an awesome day job that covers all your bills, and music is a pick and choose hobby for you?
Either way, you gotta weigh the loss and the gain. You’re going to do 3 hours of driving, an hour setup, and a 4 hour gig. That’s 8 hours of your time, out the window. There’s $30 in gas, probably food and drink too.
$200 - expenses, divided by 8 = hourly rate.
Are you on the verge of homelessness? Could $200 mean the difference between making rent or not?
Or, do you have an awesome day job that covers all your bills, and music is a pick and choose hobby for you?
Either way, you gotta weigh the loss and the gain. You’re going to do 3 hours of driving, an hour setup, and a 4 hour gig. That’s 8 hours of your time, out the window. There’s $30 in gas, probably food and drink too.
$200 - expenses, divided by 8 = hourly rate.
Big Hoss
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- Sep 5, 2014
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Dumb question. Why aren't you travelling as a band to these gigs? The only ones we do where we commute separately are when they are very local, and right after day job time and everyone just musters at the gig locale... Otherwise we have a van we use and a small trailer for our gear...
not a dumb question...im going to suggest we do that, but that with the exception of 2 other members, we all live about an hour from each other, so we'd be traveling 40-60 minutes to get to a meetup point, than drive another 2 hours or so to the gig...adds on extra travel time.
A few years back I used to play in a touring band that was a full-time commitment. We were an all-originals act and our manager would typically book festival gigs or other well-paying gigs and then we would just fill in the gaps in between with whatever reasonable gigs we could get along the way. $200 per person would have been reasonable to us and we definitely would have taken it to plug a hole in the schedule. Granted, we were all in our 20's, good friends, enjoyed travelling/driving, were passionate about our music, and had a blast playing.
Nowadays, I see music as strictly something that I do for fun on the side. If I'm with a group that I enjoy hanging out and playing with, I don't need to have any extra cash at the end of the night. I would never pay a venue to play and free food/drinks is always appreciated... sure it's nice to walk away with more dough in my pocket than when I went in, but I don't see it as necessary because I get great enjoyment and fulfillment out of playing my bass with good people.
I would not play with a band who stresses me out or whose members I dislike, unless at the end of the day, I'm getting at the very least the same (but probably more) hourly pay than I get at my 40hr/wk job.
Nowadays, I see music as strictly something that I do for fun on the side. If I'm with a group that I enjoy hanging out and playing with, I don't need to have any extra cash at the end of the night. I would never pay a venue to play and free food/drinks is always appreciated... sure it's nice to walk away with more dough in my pocket than when I went in, but I don't see it as necessary because I get great enjoyment and fulfillment out of playing my bass with good people.
I would not play with a band who stresses me out or whose members I dislike, unless at the end of the day, I'm getting at the very least the same (but probably more) hourly pay than I get at my 40hr/wk job.
in LA, we often get quotes to play gigs in Las Vegas.
Thats 3-4 hours away from where I live without traffic (which is nearly always there on weekends).
Last Saturday, I did a quick turnaround gig there, drove up in morning, was there from 3-9PM and drove back at night, getting home by 12:30pm. I could have stayed the night, but preferred to pocket as much $ as possible.
This was only worth it to me to get paid more than 2X per man than you did.
I would not have done that for $200.
Thats 3-4 hours away from where I live without traffic (which is nearly always there on weekends).
Last Saturday, I did a quick turnaround gig there, drove up in morning, was there from 3-9PM and drove back at night, getting home by 12:30pm. I could have stayed the night, but preferred to pocket as much $ as possible.
This was only worth it to me to get paid more than 2X per man than you did.
I would not have done that for $200.
OP I would just make myself do it just to be in a new environment.
Nothing kills off musicians faster than the bitter big fish small local dive bar hampster wheel.
Nothing kills off musicians faster than the bitter big fish small local dive bar hampster wheel.
A buddy of mine did the county fair circuit in the day, local bar/club/halls/farm/backyards at night.
Live the dream, live off of corn dogs and the kindness of sad women.
This is one of those threads with so many things said (by the op and others) that are simply beyond comprehension.
You're worried about falling asleep so you're going to take an ambien and get a hotel room for 4 or 5 hours?
Or you're going to stop for a nap "every 30 minutes"?
You fall asleep on a simple 2 hour drive but are "healthier than the average 50 year old"?
At any rate, I would probably take the gig. I did something similar a while ago although that was for a sound gig and all I had to bring was myself, and I was also provided a hotel room (since the event was at a hotel), plus some food and drinks. I didn't consider it GREAT pay, but it was enough to get me out the door. I took half a day or so the next day to do some shopping and explore the town a bit and then drove back by a fairly scenic route in the mid afternoon which was nice.
Anyway, it definitely makes the most sense to carpool to the degree possible. Unless you're all coming from completely different directions from the gig (which would make being in a band completely impractical), there is SOME common point where you're all (or at least 2 or 3 of you) on the same route. Meet up there and park at a grocery store or something (the idea is somewhere with free parking that won't tow). That should mean you can get at least 30 or 45 minutes of napping in before getting back to your car (at which point you can choose to nap some more or start driving). Don't rent a van, that's silly. If you were all in the same area that might make sense.
If you absolutely can't carpool with SOMEONE, rather than blowing money on a hotel "for 4-5 hours" (still don't understand this, is the "private party" int he middle of the week or something and you have work the next morning? Why wouldn't you just get a full night's sleep and get your money's worth from the hotel and drive home in the morning in the light of day?), just get your gear packed and loaded in your car, and TAKE A NAP THERE. Sleep until you wake up. If you don't have some medical issue, this should mean you're fairly alert and awake now. Perhaps stop and grab a coffee or soda if necessary. Drive until you either get home or get tired again (if that's in the neighborhood of 30 minutes, sorry but you are not healthier than an average 50 year old).
You'll get home a hell of a lot faster if you just get the sleep you need up front (ie when you need it), instead of trying to mete it out in little doses and not getting much driving done in between. And as far as caffeine, it's not like you just drink a coffee or soda and you're instantly wired, that's not how it works. It takes maybe a couple hours for it to kind of kick in, and at least for me, it's most noticeable after maybe 4-6 hours or so.
Anyway, my perspective might be a different because almost every other driver on the road is lousy compared to me, so the less traffic, the happier (and safer) I am. Plus I'm a night owl. I'll regularly start a 5 or 6 hour road trip at 8 pm or so just to avoid the majority of traffic. I might have one coffee or soda at the beginning of the trip and that levels out any sleepiness at the end of the trip and then I can fall asleep pretty easily when I get where I'm going.
Sorry, but this is definitely not true. I mean, lol at all the people who think that the federal mileage reimbursement rate is what it necessarily costs to drive a certain distance. Doing some rough calculations, if I drove 15k miles in a year, it would cost me about $3500 to run my van, that's including gas (at 20mpg), insurance, regular oil changes (at about $70 each), proportional amounts of replacing brakes and tires, and maybe a bit. The reimbursement/deduction would be about $8200. My entire van only cost $2k, and it's comfortable and runs great. So I could buy 2 more of them at the end of the year with what's left over. Oh, and I can fit 3 band members (including myself) and all our gear (sorry drummer) for gigs (not including PA) in it.
So no, spending an extra $25 (if you get a good rate), plus the usual $10 for insurance on a rental is not really cheaper than just putting a couple hundred miles on your car. Plus the hassle of getting to and from the rental place, unloading/loading your gear, etc... Where it MIGHT make sense is in a family with 1 car so you can leave the family car for your spouse while you're gone. But that's still more of a logistical necessity than a cost savings. Or if you're making enough that the $35 or so saves the mileage on your own car and provides some peace of mind.
...A THREE HOUR TOUR?
You're worried about falling asleep so you're going to take an ambien and get a hotel room for 4 or 5 hours?
Or you're going to stop for a nap "every 30 minutes"?
You fall asleep on a simple 2 hour drive but are "healthier than the average 50 year old"?
At any rate, I would probably take the gig. I did something similar a while ago although that was for a sound gig and all I had to bring was myself, and I was also provided a hotel room (since the event was at a hotel), plus some food and drinks. I didn't consider it GREAT pay, but it was enough to get me out the door. I took half a day or so the next day to do some shopping and explore the town a bit and then drove back by a fairly scenic route in the mid afternoon which was nice.
Anyway, it definitely makes the most sense to carpool to the degree possible. Unless you're all coming from completely different directions from the gig (which would make being in a band completely impractical), there is SOME common point where you're all (or at least 2 or 3 of you) on the same route. Meet up there and park at a grocery store or something (the idea is somewhere with free parking that won't tow). That should mean you can get at least 30 or 45 minutes of napping in before getting back to your car (at which point you can choose to nap some more or start driving). Don't rent a van, that's silly. If you were all in the same area that might make sense.
If you absolutely can't carpool with SOMEONE, rather than blowing money on a hotel "for 4-5 hours" (still don't understand this, is the "private party" int he middle of the week or something and you have work the next morning? Why wouldn't you just get a full night's sleep and get your money's worth from the hotel and drive home in the morning in the light of day?), just get your gear packed and loaded in your car, and TAKE A NAP THERE. Sleep until you wake up. If you don't have some medical issue, this should mean you're fairly alert and awake now. Perhaps stop and grab a coffee or soda if necessary. Drive until you either get home or get tired again (if that's in the neighborhood of 30 minutes, sorry but you are not healthier than an average 50 year old).
You'll get home a hell of a lot faster if you just get the sleep you need up front (ie when you need it), instead of trying to mete it out in little doses and not getting much driving done in between. And as far as caffeine, it's not like you just drink a coffee or soda and you're instantly wired, that's not how it works. It takes maybe a couple hours for it to kind of kick in, and at least for me, it's most noticeable after maybe 4-6 hours or so.
Anyway, my perspective might be a different because almost every other driver on the road is lousy compared to me, so the less traffic, the happier (and safer) I am. Plus I'm a night owl. I'll regularly start a 5 or 6 hour road trip at 8 pm or so just to avoid the majority of traffic. I might have one coffee or soda at the beginning of the trip and that levels out any sleepiness at the end of the trip and then I can fall asleep pretty easily when I get where I'm going.
Sorry, but this is definitely not true. I mean, lol at all the people who think that the federal mileage reimbursement rate is what it necessarily costs to drive a certain distance. Doing some rough calculations, if I drove 15k miles in a year, it would cost me about $3500 to run my van, that's including gas (at 20mpg), insurance, regular oil changes (at about $70 each), proportional amounts of replacing brakes and tires, and maybe a bit. The reimbursement/deduction would be about $8200. My entire van only cost $2k, and it's comfortable and runs great. So I could buy 2 more of them at the end of the year with what's left over. Oh, and I can fit 3 band members (including myself) and all our gear (sorry drummer) for gigs (not including PA) in it.
So no, spending an extra $25 (if you get a good rate), plus the usual $10 for insurance on a rental is not really cheaper than just putting a couple hundred miles on your car. Plus the hassle of getting to and from the rental place, unloading/loading your gear, etc... Where it MIGHT make sense is in a family with 1 car so you can leave the family car for your spouse while you're gone. But that's still more of a logistical necessity than a cost savings. Or if you're making enough that the $35 or so saves the mileage on your own car and provides some peace of mind.
...A THREE HOUR TOUR?
You're a member of the band, right? And the gig is booked, right? I'd do it no question, and get the motel room if my safety and the safety of others on the road depended on it. If you decide it's really too much for you, let the BL know that in the future you would rather get a sub for gigs outside a certain radius.
I’m not sure where or when you took up accounting, but you have a significant misunderstanding how the mileage deduction works, especially the advantage you have with a vintage auto. First of all, when you play music and get paid for it, you receive taxable income, which requires form SE of which nails you for about 15.2% in addition to your nominal federal, state, and local income tax, unless you have deductions. 180 miles @ $.54 cents a mile bringing the adjustment to income @ -$97. In a nominal 15% tax bracket plus FICA and Medicare, would save you about $30 in taxes. And that is just one gig.
Now for your ride, just how long have you had it, and just how how many more years, miles do you expect to get out of it? You know, sooner or later you are going to have to replace it. That is called depletion.
I’m going to assume it is paid for. To figure your current cost of operation per mile, add the anticipated miles left in your current ride, and the anticipated miles of operation of the new vehicle, then divide the total amount of anticipated miles but the cost of the new vehicle, any maintenance, repairs gas, licenses, personal property tax, tolls, finance charges, and insurance. That will give you the true cost per mile of operating your current vehicle.
Once you do that, multiple the cost per mile times 180 miles, and maybe I’m not so much of an idiot. I assure you the figure will be more than just the gas for the round trip. The best way lower your auto expense is to avoid depletion on your current vehicle, and the best way to accomplish that is not to drive long distances with it, which will drastically lower your cost per mile getting from here to there.
I’ve crunched number for many a decade, most of which I’ve been self employed. Trust me, it works, just don’t rent a really upscale ride, like an Escalade, BMW or Benz.
BTW, got a big chuckle about drummer... hilarious. Have a good one.
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To claim deductions, you have to be paying taxes on the gig.
A promoter once wanted to withhold 50% for taxes. That didn’t go well. These guys will try anything if they feel they can get away with it.
These posters have given you what is reasonable costs of autoownership how much have you depreciated you equip, with out going through. The number you will net is 50 60 bucks.
If someone wants to stiff the band 50% some thing is wrong get itemized. Bill
I think that's reasonable and I totally understand the consideration about the drive back, but If you really need to stop and take 3 naps (for an hour and 40 min. drive back home), I'd pass it up if I were you.
