A local TB'er ripped me off!!

[InhumanResource]

Spoiler: this has no bearing really, but.....

Many years ago I was a high school kid pumping gas after school and on weekends. Over the course of a year doing so you get to know regular customers. One such came in who I knew on a first name basis. I must have served him 30-40 times over the year. After pumping, he said he was short something like 5 or 10 bucks. I naively said no problem, I'll see you in a day or 2, give it to me then. I never saw him again. People are strange and become even stranger with greed.

Since we're off topic I had a similar experience with a young man in my neighborhood. He stopped me on my sidewalk one day to introduce himself and we talked a little. He is in construction, had just moved in with his fiancee up the street and was making the rounds offering to mow lawns for extra money, 20 bucks a pop. They were remodeling their new house and needed the cash. I live in an urban neighborhood with very old, inexpensive houses and stories like that are pretty common. He seemed a little slow-moving but I figured at least he was trying to do the right thing, so we made the deal to mow my lawn for 10 bucks (it's tiny and I can easily do it myself, but again I figured what the heck). This went on through the summer, he'd come by about every week or so and ask if I needed the grass cut. Always 10 bucks, always did a reasonable enough job and then I didn't have to bother.

The one day he caught me with only a 20 in my wallet. I said no problem, come to me when you're done with your other customers and give me change. I'll be home. Never saw the punk again! He burned down the whole thing over 10 bucks.

Guess I got rid of him cheap, though.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Yes, have your purchase shipped, or else PayPal will consider your buyer protection null and void.

Have you called the guy to have this resolved? And I forgot to ask--what kind of deal did he give you? Did you get the bass for a very good price?
Also, maybe you both need to make some amends before you go any further. Sounds like a big misunderstanding here. Something that clear communication can clear up AFTER you've both cooled down. Remember, he thought he sold you a decent bass, you like the bass, and now his reputation is tarnished here and Reverb.
My dad always told me, be quick to listen and slow to respond. Holds true to this day.
I wish you and the seller the best. You both sound like decent people.

 

[JackANSI]

Happens all the time. A rod can break any place, and it's only logical to break where it's the thinnest and sees the most stress.

I've broken off bolts replacing brakes many times (both tightening and loosening)... Always happens at the head or the threads (mostly between right where the threads start and the smooth shank ends, but sometimes lower if the non-sunk-in threads weren't rusted).

I can't recall a single time in all my 17 years working on different cars, including engine builds and teardown that a bolt snapped mid-way between the head and the thread.

Yes, bolts and truss rods are different animals... bolts are usually heat treated after the threads are done. I doubt truss rods are and threading does cause a bit of work hardening of the material (that's part of the reason why quality bolts are heat treated after the creation process). So it makes the most sense that a truss rod would snap where the threads are before anything else.

 

[5544]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think you're correct. The OP had a choice to buy from TB classifieds or Reverb and chose Reverb. The OP had a choice to do the transaction via mail or in person, he chose in person. Neither of those choices are necessarily wrong but each has a proper method of issue resolution.

Did the OP get shafted with a hidden defect? Sure looks that way.
Did the seller disclose that the truss was maxed out, rusty or broken? I don't know, I haven't seen either the TB or Reverb classified ad. But based on the OPs postings in this thread I'm going to assume it wasn't disclosed.

So from the side of the story we have so far, it looks like the OP was shafted by a schmuck that feels he can get away with it. The recourse for the OP who purchased the bass in person as a response to a Reverb ad would be to personally visit the seller and request a full refund. If the seller refuses, it should be followed up by a written letter or email outlining the issue, the sellers response and one last request for a refund before it goes to court. If the seller still refuses, it's off to small claims court where a judge can determine the merits of the case and if there was any misreprentation of the product.

Had the OP bought on eBay with PayPal via mail or on TB with PayPal via mail the recourse would be very different and probably with a better outcome. As it sits right now, I'd say the OPs chances of success in small claims court are slim unless the truss rod was specifically claimed to be in good working order.

We haven't heard both sides of the story (and there's always two sides) but right now I feel very sorry for the OP and I sincerely hope he is able to resolve the issue to his satisfaction. What a horrible way to start out the new year.

From the seller's reply, the truss rod adjustment was functional, the OP inspected the bass, purchased the bass and even wrote a thank you after getting home.

All the issues started once the OP started messing with the truss rod but never stated the reason why it needed to be adjusted in 22 pages of replies.

Now here is what I think disqualifies the OP from a refund. The moment there was an issue with the bass, instead of picking up the phone and calling the seller, a call was made to Lakland with the instructions to remove the neck - not to take it into a professional. If someone goes wrong with your used Mustang, you do not call Ford Headquarters and they instruct you to disassemble the engine, you take it to the professionals.

It was only after the neck was removed (read: altered from original condition) that the OP came on here and started making accusations against the seller - a few that were dispelled by other members.

Someone took a few of the OP's replies and put them all in a single reply one after the other and the wording kept changing like a classroom of 2nd graders playing telephone.

What makes maters worse is that Paypal agrees with the seller (agrees by not issuing a refund) so the OP contacts their credit card company to fight the judgement against them. That is considered fraud in from where I am sitting.

 

[4string4ever]

Why not just allow us TB'ers to donate a small amount of $ into a fund till you can get it fixed properly?

That's a very charitable and noble thought, and I thank you for it, but its not about a shortage of money. It's about trusting and then being taken advantage of.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Why not just allow us TB'ers to donate a small amount of $ into a fund till you can get it fixed properly?

I agree. Sure, I'll put my money where my mouth is with BigBadaBoom. Get us a price and let's start a fund! Come on TB'ers, are ya in?

 

[gwangi]

I was too lazy to read all the pages, first off sorry to hear about your bad situation, 2nd are you going to have Lakland fix the truss rod in the neck?

 

[alaskaleftybass]

That's a very charitable and noble thought, and I thank you for it, but its not about a shortage of money. It's about trusting and then being taken advantage of.

Did you read his post? Cool down and listen. I'm not against you but it sounds like he's trying to reach out.

 

[basspraiser]

When i first went to adjust it, it was frozen. Not wanting to risk breaking it, I called Lakland and asked their advice. The tech on the ihine referred me to Carl Pedigo, evidently a highly regarded luthier in Chicago. He advised me to remove the neck and then remove the nut from the truss rod. Once I got the neck off, the nut unscrewed relatively easily, at which point it came off after only 3 turns. There was 1/4" inch of truss rod, the end being pointy and rusty. It obviously had been broken long before, and a different nut attached.

Carl Pedigo is THE MAN... When it comes to fixing basses.... He is the right person to go to.

He can also fix it up...

See if lakland will do anything AFTER and if you cannot get the loser to give you a refund...

I cannot believe he did it like that!

 

[4string4ever]

From the seller's reply, the truss rod adjustment was functional, the OP inspected the bass, purchased the bass and even wrote a thank you after getting home.

All the issues started once the OP started messing with the truss rod but never stated the reason why it needed to be adjusted in 22 pages of replies.

Now here is what I think disqualifies the OP from a refund. The moment there was an issue with the bass, instead of picking up the phone and calling the seller, a call was made to Lakland with the instructions to remove the neck - not to take it into a professional. If someone goes wrong with your used Mustang, you do not call Ford Headquarters and they instruct you to disassemble the engine, you take it to the professionals.

It was only after the neck was removed (read: altered from original condition) that the OP came on here and started making accusations against the seller - a few that were dispelled by other members.

Someone took a few of the OP's replies and put them all in a single reply one after the other and the wording kept changing like a classroom of 2nd graders playing telephone.

What makes maters worse is that Paypal agrees with the seller (agrees by not issuing a refund) so the OP contacts their credit card company to fight the judgement against them. That is considered fraud in from where I am sitting.

Your facts are a little bit off. Firstly, a once over is not an indepth inspection. Do I really have to tell you why the truss rod needed adjusting? Well it needed some forward bow. Then when I found that it was in the condition it was in, wifey and I were on our way out shopping. Rather than trouble the seller with worry that something could be wrong, I thought it better to just call Lakland and ask what to do with a stuff truss rod. At which point they referred me to the aforementioned luthier "expert". It is at that point thst I call the seller and inform him. Being confident in my ability to remove a neck and simply back out the nut, I saw nothing that could be harmed. It doesn't necessarily require taking it to a shop to do that. My accounts have not changed, I have maintained the same statements the entire time. You need not inflame the issue with your off hand colored comments and plain stupid remarks.

 

[4string4ever]

From the seller's reply, the truss rod adjustment was functional, the OP inspected the bass, purchased the bass and even wrote a thank you after getting home.

All the issues started once the OP started messing with the truss rod but never stated the reason why it needed to be adjusted in 22 pages of replies.

Now here is what I think disqualifies the OP from a refund. The moment there was an issue with the bass, instead of picking up the phone and calling the seller, a call was made to Lakland with the instructions to remove the neck - not to take it into a professional. If someone goes wrong with your used Mustang, you do not call Ford Headquarters and they instruct you to disassemble the engine, you take it to the professionals.

It was only after the neck was removed (read: altered from original condition) that the OP came on here and started making accusations against the seller - a few that were dispelled by other members.

Someone took a few of the OP's replies and put them all in a single reply one after the other and the wording kept changing like a classroom of 2nd graders playing telephone.

What makes maters worse is that Paypal agrees with the seller (agrees by not issuing a refund) so the OP contacts their credit card company to fight the judgement against them. That is considered fraud in from where I am sitting.

And further, paypal did nut agree with the seller, they simply showed how they couod technically weasel out of potentially being on the hook for $800. They haven't had the change to investigate yet.

 

[GBassNorth]

@bassMG you're being called out any commentary?

Actually I just found the sellers response way back on page 12 of the thread. Looks fairly reasonable to me.

I'm of the mind that the seller and buyer should split the cost of repair if the buyer wants to keep the bass or that the buyer should return the bass to the seller along with an additional $150 (or about half of the repair costs) for a full refund. I think it's feasible the seller sold a bass that appeared functional to him and the buyer noticed undisclosed damage to the truss rod upon closer inspection. I can honestly say that I haven't closely examined every truss rod before I started adjusting them and in this case it sounds like the buyer didn't confirm the rust or break until he removed the neck and inspected the rod end. Up until then his only indication of a problem was a stiff or possibly frozen nut which isn't that uncommon on a truss rod that hasn't been adjusted in a long time (that's why pros will always tell you to loosen the nut first) or with a guitar hack that is trying to put back bow on a neck with the strings on and under tension.

They need to split the cost and move on. It's a nice looking bass and only requires a cheap fix to be perfect.

 

[4string4ever]

I agree. Sure, I'll put my money where my mouth is with BigBadaBoom. Get us a price and let's start a fund! Come on TB'ers, are ya in?

I will not accept donations, but thank you for the sentiment. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

[gln1955]

e.

What makes maters worse is that Paypal agrees with the seller (agrees by not issuing a refund) so the OP contacts their credit card company to fight the judgement against them. That is considered fraud in from where I am sitting.

Totally uncalled for.

 

[4string4ever]

Actually I just found the sellers response way back on page 12 of the thread. Looks fairly reasonable to me.

I'm of the mind that the seller and buyer should split the cost of repair if the buyer wants to keep the bass or that the buyer should return the bass to the seller along with an additional $150 (or about half of the repair costs) for a full refund. I think it's feasible the seller sold a bass that appeared functional to him and the buyer noticed undisclosed damage to the truss rod upon closer inspection. I can honestly say that I haven't closely examined every truss rod before I started adjusting them and in this case it sounds like the buyer didn't confirm the rust or break until he removed the neck and inspected the rod end. Up until then his only indication of a problem was a stiff or possibly frozen nut which isn't that uncommon on a truss rod that hasn't been adjusted in a long time (that's why pros will always tell you to loosen the nut first) or with a guitar hack that is trying to put back bow on a neck with the strings on and under tension.

They need to split the cost and move on. It's a nice looking bass and only requires a cheap fix to be perfect.

I in fact messaged the seller a couple of hours ago proposing a settlement, however he has not had anything to contribute to the dialogue.

 

[john turner]

sorry for your experience, but the basses forum is for instrument-specific issues only.

 

[4string4ever]

Have you called the guy to have this resolved? And I forgot to ask--what kind of deal did he give you? Did you get the bass for a very good price?
Also, maybe you both need to make some amends before you go any further. Sounds like a big misunderstanding here. Something that clear communication can clear up AFTER you've both cooled down. Remember, he thought he sold you a decent bass, you like the bass, and now his reputation is tarnished here and Reverb.
My dad always told me, be quick to listen and slow to respond. Holds true to this day.
I wish you and the seller the best. You both sound like decent people.

I did talk with the seller yes. I paid $800

 

[5544]

Your facts are a little bit off. Firstly, a once over is not an indepth inspection. Do I really have to tell you why the truss rod needed adjusting? Well it needed some forward bow. Then when I found that it was in the condition it was in, wifey and I were on our way out shopping. Rather than trouble the seller with worry that something could be wrong, I thought it better to just call Lakland and ask what to do with a stuff truss rod. At which point they referred me to the aforementioned luthier "expert". It is at that point thst I call the seller and inform him. Being confident in my ability to remove a neck and simply back out the nut, I saw nothing that could be harmed. It doesn't necessarily require taking it to a shop to do that. My accounts have not changed, I have maintained the same statements the entire time. You need not inflame the issue with your off hand colored comments and plain stupid remarks.

Your once over was good enough for you to take the bass in exchange for money.

Wait a minute here...

You called Lakland while you were out shopping with your wife? You said earlier that once you found out that the truss rod nut was frozen, you called Lakland right away. I don't understand how you are able to do a truss rod adjustment in the middle of shopping with the wife but couldn't do one in front of the seller.

 

[4string4ever]

I was too lazy to read all the pages, first off sorry to hear about your bad situation, 2nd are you going to have Lakland fix the truss rod in the neck?

I'm stills waiting to hear back from the seller, and let my claims process through before I decide anything.

 

[4string4ever]

Your once over was good enough for you to take the bass in exchange for money.

Wait a minute here...

You called Lakland while you were out shopping with your wife? You said earlier that once you found out that the truss rod nut was frozen, you called Lakland right away. I don't understand how you are able to do a truss rod adjustment in the middle of shopping with the wife but couldn't do one in front of the seller.

Here we go with semantics again. indis call them right away, as soon as we left to go shipping. Was a matter of a couple of minutes. I didn't see any reason to tweet my every second of movement, geez dude