AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[strost]

So close to pulling the trigger on a Changeling 115 (Duke’s suggestion after emailing with him). But the Barefaced Big Baby II and (especially) the fearless f112 are very tempting too. It’s hard not being able to play or hear any of these!

Since this is the AK thread, feel free to talk me into it!

(And yes, I’ve read everything I could find on talkbass comparing these (well, the Hathor anyway))

 

[winegamd]

I would probably choose the AK or Barefaced cabs before the Fearless, but that is my taste. I just like the tighter low end of Duke's cabs. I also like the very natural top end of the 3" drivers in the Hathor/Changeling 1533. If you want a more sparkly top end and maybe a bit more low end I would go with the Barefaced. If you need the deepest lows and most extended highs, then go with the Fearless. I think the AK will have more tonal variation through blocking ports and mid switches. If you need the smoothest sound, then go with the Fearless. The Barefaced is kind of in between the two.

 

[nostatic]

So close to pulling the trigger on a Changeling 115 (Duke’s suggestion after emailing with him). But the Barefaced Big Baby II and (especially) the fearless f112 are very tempting too. It’s hard not being able to play or hear any of these!

Since this is the AK thread, feel free to talk me into it!

(And yes, I’ve read everything I could find on talkbass comparing these (well, the Hathor anyway))

The BB2 sounds similar to the TC112 (imho). The secret sauce with the Hathors is the 3" paper cone driver for the upper mids and highs. No horn I've heard (including Duke's and Barefaced) sounds as good to my ear. That is a personal preference, but I think a big part of why the Hathors end up being beloved cabinets - it is just hard to get a bad sound out of them.

The Fearless stuff has never been my cup of tea. I don't want a "flat response" cabinet, nor do I want a ton of info below 80 hz. Neutral doesn't sound good to me, I want some coloration, but it has to be the right coloration. Ymmv.

 

[strost]

Both very helpful assessments. Thanks! Would I be correct in my thinking that the Hathor/Changeling 1203 is not as “loud” as the BBII? That’s the main reason why I am considering the 15. I’ve decided I just want one cab.

 

[nostatic]

Might not be quite as loud, but I think it sounds better, and the way the notes speak, I don't have to turn up that loud in a mix. Ymmv.

 

[slagheap]

For awhile in my guitar gigging years, I used a mint-condition open-back Fender 4 x 12 that I got used from the print classifieds (remember those? no?) and it came with a really nice custom cover. The previous owner had it made by an auto upholsterer, out of heavy-duty black seat vinyl, like what you'd see on an old pickup's bench seat. It had edge-stitched rectangular holes in each side that lined up with the cab's cast metal recessed handles. Slipped right on and was just snug enough, and it was easy to carry. Don't remember if I ever asked the seller how much the cover cost, but if you have some auto upholsterers in your area it couldn't hurt to ask.

three good amp cover makers i know about:
studio slips
tuki covers
leCover

 

[slagheap]

for one-cabinet solution i'd go AK1505 or AK1533, pardner.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

I have a bunch of covers from studio slips fit great

 

[Dee-man]

Not sure what your application will be, but you might want to consider a TC212 or Hathor 212 if you're concerned about volume. Still one cab. I've had the TC212. Great form factor with a micro head. Sounds great, goes deep and brings the hammer. Around 40lbs. Also, since you're looking at AK stuff and one cab solutions, the Birdhaus 48 may get you there, as well as one of Duke's 18" cabs (TC118 (I had this and it was awesome; about 44 lbs) or an 1855 that got rave reviews). Just more options in addition to those already suggested. Hope this helps, DM

 

[strost]

Not sure what your application will be, but you might want to consider a TC212 or Hathor 212 if you're concerned about volume. Still one cab. I've had the TC212. Great form factor with a micro head. Sounds great, goes deep and brings the hammer. Around 40lbs. Also, since you're looking at AK stuff and one cab solutions, the Birdhaus 48 may get you there, as well as one of Duke's 18" cabs (TC118 (I had this and it was awesome; about 44 lbs) or an 1855 that got rave reviews). Just more options in addition to those already suggested. Hope this helps, DM

Thanks! I thought about the Hathor 212 but then 2 1203s is not much more $$. So I decided to not even start down that slippery slope. 18s are too big and heavy (I know, I’m a wimp now). One 15 should be plenty.

 

[Dee-man]

Makes sense. I try to stay under 30 lbs. a schlep. I've had Duke's 15's (TC narrow and wide and an early Hathor (1503?)) and you won't be disappointed. Good luck, DM

 

[Joebone]

I would probably choose the AK or Barefaced cabs before the Fearless, but that is my taste. I just like the tighter low end of Duke's cabs. I also like the very natural top end of the 3" drivers in the Hathor/Changeling 1533. If you want a more sparkly top end and maybe a bit more low end I would go with the Barefaced. If you need the deepest lows and most extended highs, then go with the Fearless. I think the AK will have more tonal variation through blocking ports and mid switches. If you need the smoothest sound, then go with the Fearless. The Barefaced is kind of in between the two.

If "smooth" is the goal, the AK Thunderchildren give you more of that than the fearless. The fearless cabs are pretty amazing because they do have a bit of a "voice" - particularly if you work the rocker switch on the back - but still offer a full-range presentation that is extended on both ends. In comparison, the Thunderchildren are the Titans of Transparency, and the Sultans of Smooth.

I shifted away from Thunderchildren to fearless but did not sell my old 4-ohm 115, and for a number of reasons, mostly ergonomic but also somewhat sonic, am tilting back toward the AK camp.

 

[strost]

Thanks for all the feedback. Changeling 115 is still the leader. I’ve seen a lot of love for the Hathor 1203 but not as much for the 1533. Would I lose the “magic” by going with the 15 instead of the 12? Obviously the weight and bulk are more, and the tone will be different, but do people love the 1533 tone as much as the 1203?

Particularly interested in thoughts from folks who have played both.

I’m looking at the Changeling not the Hathor though, and, as far as I know, only one person can comment on the 112 vs 115. I’ve gotten some info from Duke and I’ll likely be calling or emailing him this week for more (of course he can weigh in here too!)

Thanks!

 

[MarkA]

I've never played the 15, so I can't say much about it except what Duke offers in the descriptions on his website. Worth note:
Hathor 1203 handles 500 Watts with efficiency of 94 dB/W/m. Hathor 1533 also handles 500 Watts, but efficiency is 98 dB/W/m. Hathor 212 handles 1000 Watts and is 97 dB efficient.

Based on those, I'd expect the 212 to hit a little harder (two motors vs. one, as Duke mentions in the product description) and maybe go a little louder (by virtue of taking more power) than the 1533 but the 15 is still a good deal more efficient than the 1203 and a hair more efficient than the 212. In terms of available SPL, the 212 wouldn't have an advantage over the 15 unless you ran it with a pretty hefty amp. The 1533 cab is 4" wider than the 212 but, to my surprise, not any deeper (14" for both). Can't comment on the feel or presentation of either beyond speculation, but the 15 would be easier to set a non-micro amp securely atop (a small rack or a tube amp) than the 212. The 212 would, of course, be taller. The 212 is ~$200 more.

Either would be a pretty cool one-cab solution for most gigs. The 4/8 Ohm switch on the 1533 might be handy if you ever did combine it with another cab like a 1203/Changeling (I keep saying "Hathor" but I know you said "Changeling") at a later date.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I picked up a locally built Fearless 12/6/1 recently hoping it would be a one cab solution but realized it really wasn't for my louder cover band and blues rock bands. I don't think it's much louder than one 112 Berg. Currently I'm usually using a pair of Berg 112's or an AE212 or any combination. Now I'm thinking that I'd really like to get one of these super 115 cabs which I believe would be a one cab solution, for most gigs for me. Any of the 112's will cover a quiet gig for me.

 

[TomB]

I have a TC-115 wide V1 that is my "bigger" one-cab solution - I haven't bottomed it out yet, powering it with an MB500. It's definitely louder than my TC-112V1, but between those two I haven't needed anything else for a few years now, and in fact, sold off all but my old V4 cab. I keep thinking I might need to run them together some time - they happen to stack pretty nicely - but I haven't needed that yet, not even outdoors! As a disclaimer, I guess we're not as loud as some other bands. ...or so they tell us as they hire us back .

 

[anderbass]

and an early Hathor (1503?))

Sounds like that mighta been the Hathor 1544, It was the first Hathor model Duke released back in 2012.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Do you think 4 of one of the Faital 12PR3nn drivers would work in a reasonable size cab similar to the Birdhaus 415 & still hit the 62Hz range hard enough?

I do have a Birdhaus 412 designed "on paper", and just in case I ever decide to actually build the beast, I'd like to keep the woofer choice a secret for now.

Would I be correct in my thinking that the Hathor/Changeling 1203 is not as “loud” as the BBII?

I'm curious about this as well. My guess is that Alex's woofer is a little bit more efficient than the stock Kappalite 3012LF that I use, however, I think it's unlikely that the difference in efficiency is large. This assumption is based on my understanding of how much "horsepower" is available from the Kappalite motor, and how the other parameters are affected when a woofer is optimized for significantly higher efficiency. For example the 3012HO is about 3 dB more efficient than the 3012LF, but a significant amount of low end bandwidth and mechanical excursion capability is lost in pursuit of that higher efficiency.

Nostatic may be right that the "zig where the guitars zag" voicing of the Hathors (and Changelings) makes them sit in the mix well, even if they aren't particularly loud. That was my intention anyway.

 

[4StringTheorist]

Nostatic may be right that the "zig where the guitars zag" voicing of the Hathors (and Changelings) makes them sit in the mix well, even if they aren't particularly loud. That was my intention anyway.

You and I, my good sir, are going to have a talk sometime soon either here via PM or at the next DFW GTG about me and a Changeling or a Hathor.

 

[winegamd]

One thing the Fearless and Barefaced will have a hard time doing is matching the transient response of the threes in the high midrange region. The Faital 5 is nice but not as detailed and quick as the threes. The bare faced might have a lowish crossover for the horn, I'm not not sure since it isn't listed, but I am sure the woofer is playing higher up into the upper mids where the size and mass of the cone are going to start losing detail compared to the threes. The threes can cross over low enough that it gets the crossover Freq out of the range where our ears are most sensitive, so I am betting that off axis the Hathor's are going to sound closer to a single point source. This is all Audiophile speak, but, if you want the best sound and most detail possible those magic little threes are the ticket.