AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[John D Harris]

Yeah - I actually prefer it "neutral." I let the H1203 handle the bit of edge in the mid. The character of the horn vs 3" paper cone is different. I haven't gigged the TC112 yet though and that is always my gold standard.

I think what you hear with that setting is the top of the woofer, possibly with some Duke magic from the crossover (I would guess there might be some driver overlap going on though in the upper mids with the HF driver adding something, not sure).
Paging DLJ...
No doubt it will sound different than the 1203 though.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

On the TC112.8, the "smooth" setting simply bypasses the circuitry that would otherwise smooth out the top octave of the woofer's response. The compression driver's response is unaffected; we're just toggling between the 3012LF's native top-end response and a smoothed version thereof. This same approach is used in the TC212 and the TC115.8

On the Hathor 1203, the corresponding switch affects both the woofer and cone mid simultaneously. So they have built-in overlap, but then when the "smooth" setting is engaged, both drivers are brought down in level across their region of overlap (which spans roughly 1-2 kHz).

The Hathor 1855 uses yet another topology for the midrange switch: The switch only affects the pair of midrange cones, moving their rolloff frequency up or down depending on whether we want the growliness of overlap or the smoothness of gentle blending.

I don't use an overlapping topology on the Thunderchild series largely because the compression driver's power handling decreases rapidly as we try to extend its response lower. Beefier compression drivers are available, but they are expensive, and ime upper-mid bumpage just sounds better through a paper cone anyway.

 

[nostatic]

On a related note, Upper-Mid Bumpage had to cancel their summer tour. They are hoping to increase their live show frequency in the fall...

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

Duke!
Any update on the H 1533?

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke!
Any update on the H 1533?

Still waiting on the woodwork. One in the low-E configuration will be going to Ruben's friend Eric. I'm thinking the weight will be in the lower 30's, but won't know for sure until I actually build it and put it on my fancy digital scale. The 1544 was 34 pounds, and this one will be a bit less.

The low-F# version will be about 9 pounds heavier. I'm hoping it will be sort of like a baby 1855, with a simpler enclosure and less expensive midrange drivers so that it's easier (and less expensive) to build.

The two 3" cones will be side-by-side, so their horizontal dispersion will approximate that of a single 6" cone. Well actually the pattern arguably models a bit better than a single 6" cone in the horizontal, and then we have the side openings of that open-format mid chamber, so its horizontal dispersion should be quite decent. Of course its vertical dispersion will be even better, so aside from the slightly wider footprint, the Hathor 1533 should be every bit as tight-stage-friendly as the 1203.

 

[nostatic]

So Steuart came over tonight and brought his original TC112-4 to compare to the TC112-8 (and H1203 for grins). More different than we expected. The TC112-4 was a bit thicker through the low mids and smoother in the upper mids. The TC112-8 seemed to extend a bit lower, was a tad more open in the mids with a bit of bite in the upper mids. Still not quite into H1203 territory, but they sounded different. Trying to figure out what contributes - I think all the components are a bit different. Interesting because Steuart prefers the voicing of his 4, I liked the more open/edgy 8, and I really like the H1203. I just added a Smith 5 in the house so I'm pushing a B-string around. I think that the H1203 pair and the TC112-8 are the ultimate flex setup. I love the way the H1203 pair sounds, but I also like the extra extension that the TC112-8 gives.

 

[steubig]

yeah

we didn't expect there to be a difference *at all* . . . so we were quite surprised.

i will say that my being unclear on the switches on the back of the 8ohm version, or perhaps the fact that they have different functions than on the 4ohm version, may have created a slight pippin to macintosh situation. we also used only one amp (todd's monique/minnie setup), so we didn't go all-out. (partially cause we were just gonna hang and didn't expect much difference at all.)

i assume that variables are the 12-inch speakers and the crossover.


duke?


to give a really good appraisal, i'd probably have to hear them both again and then think about it a bit more.

in my view, the fact that the 4ohm version seems to have more in the low mids may create a *perception* that it does not extend as low as the 8ohm. also, the 8ohm version seeming to have more high end (?)—or at least it hits you differently—may also create some of these perceptions.

i guess i felt more support through notes in the middle of the fingerboard on the 4ohm cab. also, i like the way closely voiced chords work on the 4ohm version—which means it had less "sizzle" in the sound and more crosstalk between the close intervals, etc.

caveat: i'm a little bit of an anomaly in that i probably have charlie haden and dave holland in the back of my mind when i'm going for sound—not very usual for and e-bass player, so everything i say should be takes with a grain of salt


the hathor 1203/tc112-8ohm stack sounds fairly amazing

 

[Passinwind]

yeah

we didn't expect there to be a difference *at all* . . . so we were quite surprised.

i will say that my being unclear on the switches on the back of the 8ohm version, or perhaps the fact that they have different functions than on the 4ohm version, may have created a slight pippin to macintosh situation. we also used only one amp (todd's monique/minnie setup), so we didn't go all-out. (partially cause we were just gonna hang and didn't expect much difference at all.)

i assume that variables are the 12-inch speakers and the crossover.

Don't forget the different horn too.

I'm mostly interested in EUB performance and emulating guys like you mentioned, and Duke nailed it right out of the gate with his OEM 12 as far as I'm concerned. I did dig the TC112-8 a little bit more for BG though. Tradeoffs, always tradeoffs... Link Removed

 

[nostatic]

One of theories of the night was that the horn in the 8ohm version had a bit more vertical dispersion which made it seem a bit brighter and open.

 

[RColie]

I used a pair of the original 4-ohm TC112s for quite a while, and switched to a pair of 8-ohm TC112v2s so I would have more choices of amps. I think nostatic's and steubig's observations are accurate based on my experience and based on what I remember Duke saying. The custom 4-ohm woofer Duke used in the original version doesn't go quite as low as the stock 3012 which is in version 2. I think the difference is audible. Also, version 2 has a bit more going on in the upper mids than the original 4-ohm version, and I think Duke did this intentionally based on player feedback. So, version 2 a bit more low end extension and a bit more bite in the upper mids, or the original version just as smooth as silk. Both fantastic choices.

Hopefully Duke will step in and correct any omissions and errors I might have made.

Bob

 

[steubig]

yes, absolutely the different horn.

you expect me to be completely cogent at 8:00 a.m.??



i do think you're on to something about the 8ohm being a little more friendly to a certain set of the bg world. but i'm playing bg, but dislike a lot of current sounds, so the 4ohm version is the shizzle for me . . . as mentioned, i'm basing some of my sound on an ub sound template (which kinda makes me a freak, perhaps).

 

[Dee-man]

I read that Charlie Haden passed away a few days ago, in case folks missed that sad news. I think he was (only) 70. RIP.

 

[steubig]

76.

yeah. i know. actually why i kinda mentioned him. been reassessing his impact on me. met him a few times, briefly gave lessons to his son josh.

 

[MarkA]

I did not know. That is sad news.

 

[steubig]

you know it is sad, but my overwhelming feeling about it is gratitude to him.

 

[Joebone]

First night after he passed, I fired up the turntable and played Ornette's "Lonely Woman." My wife was blown away. Then some Liberation Orchestra ("Song for Che"), and finally, the closing tune on his "Missouri Sky" duet with Pat Metheny: "Spiritual."

He was a giant…and yes, even as I fumble about on Electric, he is often in my head.

 

[steubig]

for me it was his two duet albums from the 70s.

 

[MarkA]

you know it is sad, but my overwhelming feeling about it is gratitude to him.

Good perspective, and telling of his impact.

 

[Joebone]

for me it was his two duet albums from the 70s.

Don't know those! Gonna have to check them out.

There is one track I heard back in the day and wish I owned. It's either a Don Cherry or Dewey Redman album, with one tune that opens with a Charlie Haden solo…the theme is southeast asian, and I swear that the bass solo conjures up the feeling of rice paddies that have been worked for thousands of years.

And yeah, Audiokinesis is also pretty cool!

 

[steubig]

closeness and the golden number on the horizon label (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_Records).

do you know don cherry's brown rice? big fave. charlie is all over that.

yeah, and i love my tc112/4ohm.