Baer Amplification Megathread!

[KJung]

To be honest its Bergs that I'm biasing more of my perception of tone from (12s vs 10s) since most of my local Boston bass players friends who all have some version of something that Jim makes (including myself).

I can see that. Again, within product line, the kind of 'driver diameter' cliche's somewhat hold.

Of course, two of the deepest voiced, mid relaxed cabs Jim has ever made IMO are the original HT210 and the HT110 (that I don't think ever made it into production). And, one of the more tight and punchy offerings is the original HT112.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Bass guys are the worst about trying to convince other bass players to use what they use. By far.

Acoustical engineers OTOH are aware of the laws of acoustics, so there's very little for them to disagree about, as those laws apply to everyone equally.

I respectfully disagree.
Yep as has been said several times a certain player is going to sound like him or herself no matter what...

I'll tell you what...I had to do a fillin not to long ago where there where to older bag end 15s as part of the backline and I brought a LMII (which I use a lot) and the "tone" I was not the same as if I was using one of my own cabs (I expected this of course) believe I wish it was...LOL

One of those laws is that driver size does not determine tone, only dispersion. Any and all tonal differences are attributable to other factors.

 

[jnewmark]

Acoustical engineers OTOH are aware of the laws of acoustics, so there's very little for them to disagree about, as those laws apply to everyone equally.

One of those laws is that driver size does not determine tone, only dispersion. Any and all tonal differences are attributable to other factors.

Not to derail , but , this topic has always interested me regarding the JBL K140, which, no matter what size, brand, or type of cab I have used it in, always seems to have that sweet tone I associate with that 15. Other 15's I have tried to retrofit in other cabs always seem to sound different, but the K140 always seems pretty consistant as far as tone goes. Is it just my predjudiced ears , or are there other factors involved that I am not aware of with this particular 15 ?

 

[KJung]

Not to derail , but , this topic has always interested me regarding the JBL K140, which, no matter what size, brand, or type of cab I have used it in, always seems to have that sweet tone I associate with that 15. Other 15's I have tried to retrofit in other cabs always seem to sound different, but the K140 always seems pretty consistant as far as tone goes. Is it just my predjudiced ears , or are there other factors involved that I am not aware of with this particular 15 ?

I think that is a good example of Bill's point. Each driver sounds like it does, regardless of diameter. If the size of the driver was key, then you would be able to find another 15 that sounded like the K140. It is just as hard to match those other 15's with another driver that sounds the same. The difference is that you happen to prefer the K140 tone

 

[AMp'D.2play]

Thanks, Ken, I really enjoyed the clips.

Of course, my thought process has now been muddled, since I was all set to get a 2nd Aggie GS112, but with the recently introduced Berg HD112 and now hearing the ML112, I don't know what I'm gonna do!

And despite not being gain-matched in one of the vids, I liked the F500 (which still remains on my short list).

 

[KJung]

Thanks, Ken, I really enjoyed the clips.

Of course, my thought process has now been muddled, since I was all set to get a 2nd Aggie GS112, but with the recently introduced Berg HD112 and now hearing the ML112, I don't know what I'm gonna do!

And despite not being gain-matched in one of the vids, I liked the F500 (which still remains on my short list).

I love that F500. It is just a little workhorse, and the voicing right out of the box is just a great, musical, punchy, clean, full starting point for just about any cab I've tried it with.

The GS112's are a bit different than this cab. Less low mid meat, and MUCH less upper midrange. Roger's cab, to me, is more of a 'better DB112' than having anything to do with the deeply voiced, somewhat mid attenuated, and upper treble present GS112.

I haven't checked the GS prices in a long time, but if the $650 for this cab is not much more, the decision would be a no brainer unless you specifically wanted that 'dip in the upper mid/extended treble response' sound of most more traditional 112's.

IMO and IME there.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I think that is a good example of Bill's point. Each driver sounds like it does, regardless of diameter. If the size of the driver was key, then you would be able to find another 15 that sounded like the K140. It is just as hard to match those other 15's with another driver that sounds the same. The difference is that you happen to prefer the K140 tone

+1. You won't find other fifteens that sound like the K140 because they aren't made the same as the K140. Even within the JBL line its specs are unique.

 

[David Jayne]

Nice review, Ken. I really, REALLY like the P bass, into the streamliner with a little dirt dialed in. Just lovely. Fat and present.

 

[KJung]

Nice review, Ken. I really, REALLY like the P bass, into the streamliner with a little dirt dialed in. Just lovely. Fat and present.

Thanks! That combination and tone setting really made me smile also, and I have a feeling that part of that clip was probably the closest to what Roger's 'sound in his head' is when he voiced the cab, and I assume his head when it comes out... round, warm, articulate, with a bit of hair in the upper mids for character.

 

[PDGood]

I haven't had a chance to read all of this yet or listen to the clips, but just want to say "thanks" again for doing them - especially the comparisons. When talking about nuances of sound, it can be difficult to get anything meaningful out of a single youtube clip because of so many variables in the recording quality and the playback system. But by doing comparisons it's easier for the ear to get a reference.
Many many thanks for this.

 

[KJung]

I haven't had a chance to read all of this yet or listen to the clips, but just want to say "thanks" again for doing them - especially the comparisons. When talking about nuances of sound, it can be difficult to get anything meaningful out of a single youtube clip because of so many variables in the recording quality and the playback system. But by doing comparisons it's easier for the ear to get a reference.
Many many thanks for this.

Thanks! These clips are so quick and easy to do, I figure some will find them helpful, and at least the readers of my way too many posts will have a baseline of what I like in a bass tone, for better or worse.

It's all pure joy for me to try this out and then try to describe it and compare it to other stuff (since most can't 'try before buy').

 

[David Jayne]

Off topic:
Ken, I obviously haven't been paying attention, as i see you are playing a p bass these days. Wondering how you got there as I recall you saying you really didn't care for p basses. Could you direct me to a relevant thread?

 

[PDGood]

Thanks! These clips are so quick and easy to do, I figure some will find them helpful, and at least the readers of my way too many posts will have a baseline of what I like in a bass tone, for better or worse.

It's all pure joy for me to try this out and then try to describe it and compare it to other stuff (since most can't 'try before buy').

Fortunately, you and I like the same tone and describe sound similarly. So it's almost like being there in person. Couldn't be better.

 

[kringle77]

Ken, I might have missed it in the thread but, did you buy the cab or are you just demoing it for Roger?

 

[SactoBass]

Thanks! These clips are so quick and easy to do, I figure some will find them helpful, and at least the readers of my way too many posts will have a baseline of what I like in a bass tone, for better or worse.

It's all pure joy for me to try this out and then try to describe it and compare it to other stuff (since most can't 'try before buy').

THIS is, IMO, one of the key reasons why TB exists.

Big time kudos to Ken for doing what he does!

 

[KJung]

Ken, I might have missed it in the thread but, did you buy the cab or are you just demoing it for Roger?

This was just a demo thing. I'm very interested in all these types of 12's, and Roger was kind enough to send one to me to check out. Quite frankly, if I didn't have the AE210, I would buy it, but have too much stuff, and the AE210 covers the same ground in a similar way (which is high praise for Roger's cab).

I did purchase the Acme112, since that is a TOTALLY different beast from anything I own.

 

[KJung]

Off topic:
Ken, I obviously haven't been paying attention, as i see you are playing a p bass these days. Wondering how you got there as I recall you saying you really didn't care for p basses. Could you direct me to a relevant thread?

I don't think I ever got totally into the logic on a thread. I did a pretty good review of it on the Nordy thread when I got it about 9 months ago (right after NAMM).

Very quickly, the combination of the amazing build and tone of the Nordstrand VP5 (I posted on another thread that I can get that wonderful Ready Freddie 'Forget-me-not' type tone on it) that resulted in the same 'playing experience' as my boutique J's, along with the fact that the type of casual pop gigs I do on a freelance basis really has changed a lot in the last few years... moving from the 70's funk type thing to more neo soul, polite hip hop, and for the oldies, kind of 80's/90's rock, and since the mixes have gotten even more dense (now that we have a hip hop DJ as part of the band on many gigs sliding in tracks and other stuff), the P just 'sits better' in that mix.

The thing that actually started it was a gig I did in Cancun last year. I didn't want to bring a bass down there, so used an old 4 string P banger, and ended up having a whale of a good time with it

And finally, I find that the meaty low mids and lower treble result in me being able to handle even my largest gigs with a very small rig and still sound punchy and good. The 70's style J's that I love are a little less forgiving when pushing a small rig at high volumes.

 

[T. Alan Smith]

Ken,
I'm curious as to your comments on how this compares to the Berg ceramic 1x12's.

 

[KJung]

Ken,
I'm curious as to your comments on how this compares to the Berg ceramic 1x12's.

Quite different (although I have not played the current HD112, that I guess just started shipping). The low end is tighter than the HT112ER, and the top end is totally different, with the HT112ER actually having a bit of dip in the upper mids and a very hi fi type crystal clear upper treble oriented tweeter, and the Baer being very even from the mid mids to upper mids, and then being more 'bright' through the lower treble than sizzly. Quite different... more similar to the AE112 or 210 than the HT112ER to my ear.

 

[Anthbass]

Finally in on the party! One of my amplifiers arrived yesterday, so I've been able to spend some time with the ML112 and my 5 string Cirrus.

First impressions: smooth. As Ken and others have noted, the mid speaker gives a nice top end without the 'tink' of a tweeter. Notes sound very even across the range, and the bottom end is clear and detailed. I'm using a Carvin B800 at the moment, which at 8 ohms, should be delivering around 300 watts to the cabinet. For my living room needs, this is more than enough, and with the 'drive' knob at 3 o'clock and the master at 3, you can get a bit of grind with the Cirrus. Slap tones are very nice: even, detailed, and again, smooth.

I'm looking forward to some fretless action, and trying the other amp (GBE 750), whenever it arrives. If I can make some time, I'll put up a short video clip a la KJung.

Obligatory pic here:http://s630.photobucket.com/albums/uu25/Dehouser/?action=view&current=P1000515.jpg