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Baer Amplification Megathread!
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
Has anyone tried the L stack with the midranges closest together (top cab upside down)?
I think the woofers are still close enough together to couple well & the mids have such good dispersion having the top mid right over the one in the bottom cabinet, I think you'd be surprised how well they sound.
I guess you'd want to put either a thin piece of foam between them or if you wanted to do it on a regular basis, you could put a set of feet on the top of one cab.
I'm imagining a dual ML115 with that setup [or a horizontal ML115 with a flipped vertical ML212 on top (3x6" stacked)].
For the latter rig, you'd need a 2 ohm capable amp (like the Valkyrie) or a two channel power section amp like the GB ShuttleMax 12.2 or preamp + stereo power amp rig, but OMG, what a rig!!!
Maybe Mr Baer has tried this...?
As I get asked about building mirrored baffle cabs quite a bit, let me try and explain our reasoning for not building them. The main problem with building mirrored speaker baffle arrangements is that our cabs are not custom built one at a time to order. If they were, we could offer more options, but we would also have to charge considerably more per cab. As it is, we book time on the factory floor and the cabs are made in runs of 25 to 30 cabs, depending on the model. So, while this allows us to get the cost down per cab, it also means that we have to come up with a rather large chunk of cash every time we make a run of cabinets. So, something as "simple" as a mirrored baffle version of one of our cabs, means having to have the cash flow to invest in building and stocking what is essentially to us, a completely different model.
So, the question for us becomes "do the advantages of a mirrored baffle outweigh the business disadvantages of actually building and stocking those cabs?" IMO, the benefits of the mirrored baffle are greatly exaggerated. Let's look at a cab like the ML112( in vertical layout). Sure stacking a regular and a mirrored baffle cab will get the mids closer to each other, but they still wouldn't be in the optimal configuration which is stacked directly on top of each other, like they are in the ML212. So, in exchange for a slight (IMO) benefit to the mid dispersion, we have now placed the woofers further away from their optimal center to center layout (as in the ML212), plus we also now have both mid drivers below knee level. In other words, if you really want the best driver configuration, the ML212 is the way to go. After that, I would still choose two ML112's stacked vertically over a regular ML112 and mirrored baffle ML112. Mirrored baffles, IMO, simply don't offer any benefits worth the extra cost related to us building and stocking a different cabinet model.
I'm still amazed at how much a single ML112 can cover. That said, I think I need to try and L-stack next time
Roger I have been thinking more and more about selling my ML112 and purchasing an ML212 instead. I used my ML 112 at an outdoor gig tonight and it sounded amazing, but I have to admit, eventhough I have it stacked on top of a Compact DR Bass 112 cab (hiding), I would like to hear a bit more vertical dispersion on the ML when i slap. It's funny I'm constantly fooled by this cab. I'll tweak my settings as I'm setting up and feel like I'm not 100 percent happy, maybe 95 percent, and then once I start playing finger style with the band it sounds phenomenal. Absolutely perfect!
However when I slap, I feel I miss a little on the vertical dispersion. When I kneel down a bit it sounds absolutely perfect, but when standing I miss some of the tone, due to the fact I'm usually standing close to the cab, but I don't miss any tone when playing finger style. I know it is sounding great when I slap, because my sound engineer and fellow musicians have complemented me on my slap tone through this cab many times.
So to make a long story short, would I benefit from more vertical dispersion with the 212 cab, even though it will probably be a little lower than my present set up of the ML112 and the dr bass compact 112? I have tried putting the ML112 on a stand but didn't like it because I felt I lost low end tone and feel from it not being coupled to the floor. Thanks.
The problem is simply the fact that a single ML112 on the floor has the mid driver about 18" off the floor, while your ears are up at 60" +. The dispersion on that mid driver is pretty good, but if you are close to the cab, it's simply a matter off your ears being too far off axis from the mid driver to really hear it properly. No small cab will be imune to this. Stacking the mids on the ML212 improves horizontal dispersion, not the vertical dispersion. The only real improvement in vertical dispersion, is simply because the mids in that cab are higher off the floor. Now, buying another ML112 and stacking the cabs vertically will get that top mid much closer to ear lever, so that even up close, you are going to hear the mid driver much better. Some players, like Chef, use an AmpWedge between the two cabs to tilt the top cab up a bit, improving vertical dispersion even further.
There's also the possibility that you are getting some phase cancelations or comb filtering occurring between the Dr. Bass cab and the ML112, which is leaving your overall response lacking in some areas. If you like the portability factor of that rig, I would probably recommend another ML112, to go with the one you have now. Feedback from double ML112 users is usually very positive in regards to being able to hear yourself (and the mids) clearly on stage.
I actually did not mention or ask about mirrored baffles, but this being talkbass, I'm sure you have plenty of people asking about the possibility.
I think you pretty much answered my question anyway, thanks!
Two ML115 each in horizontal position, but stacked vertically, that's what I'm dreaming about (yeah, I know the ML212 would be much more practical, but I can dream).
^^^ this. A pair stacked vertically kills anything I've tried wrt hearing yourself no matter how dense the mix on stage.
Sorry about that. Was working on an email from a customer asking about mirrored baffles and somehow lumped your post in with that, but most of what I said holds true, in that I think there is little to be gained by trying to get the mids close together (to increase horizontal dispersion) at the expense of moving the mids further from your ears. In my experience, horizontal dispersion is really not a huge factor for the 90% of players who spend most of the time on axis in front of their cabs. Better to get the mids closer to ear level, which let's you bring your overall volume down, which is almost always a benefit to everyone!
Chef
In Memoriam
I use 2x112 vertical 95% of the time, even when I don't need two cabs; because this gets me better personal monitoring.
At some venues, they "feel better" horizontal, then, as roger noted, I use The Ampwedge between them to tip the top cab up at me a little; again, for better personal monitoring.
At some venues, they "feel better" horizontal, then, as roger noted, I use The Ampwedge between them to tip the top cab up at me a little; again, for better personal monitoring.
The one config I didn't try while demoing: one ML112 on the floor in tilt-back position. Rear edge on ground, front edge lifted a few inches to point at my ears.maisbass said:
Anyone tried tilt-back with one cab yet?
I have with my ampwedge but I felt it wasn't enough for me when I slapped. Finger style is fine for me, even with it not tilted back but slapping has been a different story. Part of the problem is that I usually have to stand right in front of my rig so I miss the pop of the mid driver when slapping, although out front everyone says it sounds awesome. IMO If you're able to stand about 6 feet or so in front of you're rig, I don't think you will have any issue at all.
How will the upcoming ML115 compare to the ML212 - weight, dimensions, wattage? Will it sound closer to the 212 or the 112?
I'm at an impasse deciding between buying the 212 (love the tone and headroom) -VS- buying one or two 112 cabs. Very curious about the 115. :yep
EDIT:
Found it:
http://www.baeramps.com/ml-115-bass-cabinet.html
I'm at an impasse deciding between buying the 212 (love the tone and headroom) -VS- buying one or two 112 cabs. Very curious about the 115. :yep
EDIT:
Found it:
http://www.baeramps.com/ml-115-bass-cabinet.html
One other thing, IME I have NEVER played a single cab that I was able to hear the full tonal spectrum at close proximity (less than 3 feet in front if it). With that being said, I also have never played a cab that has the thickness and punch of the Baer, especially at close proximity. The ML112 is Absolutely the best 112 I have ever played, and I was never a fan of 112 cabs. I always played with 10's.
I think Chef's suggestion sounds like the best approach when playing in close proximity to your setup.
I know some of you guys prefer the cabinet on the floor and possibly tilted back, but I prefer my Baer standing upright and off the floor on a stand. That places it closer to my ear and allows me to "feel" the sound more. I don't have enough room to step 6 ft away from the cab, either.
I don't play out as much as the past, but I still do some; because of that I would truly love to purchase another Baer 112.......btw I still plan to "modify" one for my business.....just sayin'.
Link Removed
I don't play out as much as the past, but I still do some; because of that I would truly love to purchase another Baer 112.......btw I still plan to "modify" one for my business.....just sayin'.
Link Removed
