You should be fine. Do you hear yourself alright? Do people ask you to turn up? Not sure what kind of gig you're playing but, the new acoustic stuff is pretty loud.
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BECAUSE THERE IS NO PA!!!
- Thread starter father of fires
- Start date
You should be fine. Do you hear yourself alright? Do people ask you to turn up? Not sure what kind of gig you're playing but, the new acoustic stuff is pretty loud.
Please define a decent sized combo.
115 or a 210 of the right design. Peavey BAM 210 comes to mind. A very loud little combo. Something of that nature. I'm surely not suggesting some tiny little bedroom amp.
My loudness is good, I generally only turn the amp volume up to about the 9-10 o'clock position and sometimes it feels that it's too loud. I'm pretty impress with Acoustic but the thought of a couple 810s behind me, sound awesome!!!!
I'm not against big rigs at all, or being insanely loud in the right venue. I love playing loud. While I don't play the same music, I like cranking up some AC/DC or Ozzy, what have you and I want it to thunder.
I prefer using a PA because it can crank it louder far easier than any bass rig can and my drummer gets to be just as loud.
I get that you want whatever gear can handle any situation and I like big bass rigs (just not for me personally to carry around myself...thus the big guns in the PA).
A+ thread
I've always been a firm believer that (if you are able, physically and financially) it's a good idea to have enough volume in your rig to be self-sufficient.
Hence this ridiculousness
Shows I play bass without PA support - I typically bring the GK, 810, Sunn slave and the 215.
Shows I play synth w/out a PA - Coliseum, towers, slave and 215.
W/ PA -
Bass - GK + 810 or 215
Synth - Depends on the venue's system. If I know it's good, sometimes I won't even need to bring amplification... but I'd NEVER EVER EVER rely on a PA for bass.
Yeah. Nope. That would be ********.
I've always been a firm believer that (if you are able, physically and financially) it's a good idea to have enough volume in your rig to be self-sufficient.
Hence this ridiculousness
Shows I play bass without PA support - I typically bring the GK, 810, Sunn slave and the 215.
Shows I play synth w/out a PA - Coliseum, towers, slave and 215.
W/ PA -
Bass - GK + 810 or 215
Synth - Depends on the venue's system. If I know it's good, sometimes I won't even need to bring amplification... but I'd NEVER EVER EVER rely on a PA for bass.
Yeah. Nope. That would be ********.
A+ thread
I've always been a firm believer that (if you are able, physically and financially) it's a good idea to have enough volume in your rig to be self-sufficient.
Hence this ridiculousness
Shows I play bass without PA support - I typically bring the GK, 810, Sunn slave and the 215.
Shows I play synth w/out a PA - Coliseum, towers, slave and 215.
W/ PA -
Bass - GK + 810 or 215
Synth - Depends on the venue's system. If I know it's good, sometimes I won't even need to bring amplification... but I'd NEVER EVER EVER rely on a PA for bass.
Yeah. Nope. That would be ********.
Love the setup!!
This thread has exceeded my expectations as well. I especially enjoy the fact that it remained a civil debate instead of becoming a pissing contest.
My loudness is good, I generally only turn the amp volume up to about the 9-10 o'clock position and sometimes it feels that it's too loud. I'm pretty impress with Acoustic but the thought of a couple 810s behind me, sound awesome!!!!
It's a beautiful thing. Only done it a few times and it was way overkill but, loved every minute of it.
A setup like that (with so much speaker surface area) can gut check you with the softest of notes.
I was thinking the same thing.
My last three drummers have all been capable of completely burying any small rigs or combos I've played through. Not only that, they've been able to do it with ease. One was in a metal/hardcore band (no shocker there), the next was in a funk/hip-hop band and the most recent is in a pop/rock/funk band.
For this reason and this reason alone I've gotten away from trying to do a lot with a small cab or combo. Big amp (albeit a compact and lightweight one) into a reasonably large cab (something comparable to a 410, but not as big as an 810) and I can cover almost any situation.
210 or 115 combo? Forget it.
Tell that to my drummer...
My rig (Tecamp Puma1000 into LDS nEarful 15/6/1) is by no means small, and in our rehearsal space, with no drums in the PA, I really have to get that rig cooking to keep up with him. I'm not maxing it out by any means, but it's definitely pumping.
The idea of bringing a "decent sized combo" for me is laughable at best. I might as well bring two cups on a string to use as my bass amplifier. I'd be just as audibly-invisible.
As a point of reference, we're not even playing a heavy genre.
A drummer with a loud kit, hitting hard, can be totally deafening in a practice space... and still not be heard at the back of a medium-sized room full of people. By room, I mean venue. Not just a room in somebody's house.
A bass rig that is keeping up with the drummer in that practice space will very likely still be heard in the back of the same medium-sized room full of people.
I guarantee you that a Peavey BAM210 (I call it out because that's what I happen to have direct experience with) will be plenty in your practice space. I don't care who your drummer is.
And if you go play a gig with the same drummer playing unamplified in a medium-sized room full of people, and you go back in the crowd until you find the furthest spot where you can still hear ALL the drums decently, you would also be able to hear a BAM210 decently at that spot, too.
Bass carries a LOT better than drums.
When I got my first sub (an 18" Yamaha) for my PA, we had band rehearsal at my house (as we always do) and I added the sub (with 250W pushing it) to the 12" monitors we were already using. We play just loud enough at rehearsal for everybody to hear their vocals and guitar/bass over my drums - i.e. decently loud, but not deafening. I'm the only one that uses hearing protection. I have never had a noise complaint from my neighbors before. The lady that lives immediately next door has told me repeatedly that she can barely hear us. That one practice with the sub hooked up is the only practice we ever had where the sheriff showed up and asked us to turn down. And that was because more than one person called - from houses, through a patch of woods, on the other side of the block!
To the guys who keep talking about the underground band scene and playing places where you don't have the time or the space for PA:
All I am saying is that, in those scenarios, you don't NEED a big bass rig - unless you want to play at volumes that will drum out the drummer. If you are playing louder than what a small to medium sized rig will do, and your drummer doesn't have his WHOLE kit mic'ed up, then you ARE drowning him out (in the ears of people "at the back"). You can probably hear him fine, as can the people up close to you.
All I am saying is that, in those scenarios, you don't NEED a big bass rig - unless you want to play at volumes that will drum out the drummer. If you are playing louder than what a small to medium sized rig will do, and your drummer doesn't have his WHOLE kit mic'ed up, then you ARE drowning him out (in the ears of people "at the back"). You can probably hear him fine, as can the people up close to you.
I've played several places where the drums were mic'd up, but the bass rig carried fine with it. No need to send the bass thru the PA if you don't have to. Also who knows if the PA could have handled both drums and bass at some of these places...
To all who have responded to this thread recommending small rig + decent PA reinforcement: How many of you own a boutique 410 (or equivalent) cab? If so, then by your own argument - WHAT FOR?
Aren't they overkill considering a decent PA system includes adequate stage monitors (ie please don't use "the backline to hear myself on stage" excuse)? By your own viewpoint, shouldn't you be using a mic'd 1x10 cab (for "tone") or going DI with no cab at all..?
Is there a double standard..? seems like some of those who criticize older clunky big rigs (ampeg fridge, sunn) own modern compact rigs capable of producing equivalent spl...
Aren't they overkill considering a decent PA system includes adequate stage monitors (ie please don't use "the backline to hear myself on stage" excuse)? By your own viewpoint, shouldn't you be using a mic'd 1x10 cab (for "tone") or going DI with no cab at all..?
Is there a double standard..? seems like some of those who criticize older clunky big rigs (ampeg fridge, sunn) own modern compact rigs capable of producing equivalent spl...
I almost always recommend a small rig with decent PA support - and I only have a 375 watt 1x12 combo.
Personally I use a 210/6 for all but the largest gigs. At very large or outdoor gigs I use another 210/6 on top. And that is because my bass doesn't go through the monitors.
We have a decent PA system but it does not include throwing drums or bass through onstage monitors as we have no need to be that loud onstage. Out front is another matter. Bass and the full drum kit goes through no matter what volume we play at, be it easy and light or teeth rattling.
And I don't criticize big rigs. I like big rigs though I don't haul them around anymore. All of my criticism of big rigs was the idea of using them to carry a room when the drummer is not amplified. If you need that big of a rig to be that loud, then IMO the drummer is getting drowned out somewhere in the room if he isn't going through a PA.
I don't know what kind of music you play, but my experience is that a setup like that* would not be adequate for even the rehearsal space of a typical punk or metal band.. think 2 detuned distorted guitars thru Marshall stacks chugging along to a pounding drummer.. unless you also use the PA support when you practice?
*unless your sound is all highs+mids, or you have a 12" on steroids, such as Eminence 3012LF?
In my experience, having a big rig is advantageous even if the venue has a full PA.
Most of my gigging life I've also been a lead vocalist, and basically every house system I've sang through hasn't had monitors that could clearly reproduce both vocals and bass; it just becomes a garbled mess. Therefore, I usually request nothing in my monitor but vocals, and need a loud rig to be able to hear my bass on stage. I know I could get a powered monitor for bass, but that would take up valuable real-estate that doesn't exist on narrow stages. And, in the bars where I play, PA's are permanent fixtures, so bringing your own just wouldn't be an option, especially with five bands on the bill...
Plus, big rigs have volume knobs too. I don't play louder than I have to, but it's nice to have the horsepower on tap if I need it.
Most of my gigging life I've also been a lead vocalist, and basically every house system I've sang through hasn't had monitors that could clearly reproduce both vocals and bass; it just becomes a garbled mess. Therefore, I usually request nothing in my monitor but vocals, and need a loud rig to be able to hear my bass on stage. I know I could get a powered monitor for bass, but that would take up valuable real-estate that doesn't exist on narrow stages. And, in the bars where I play, PA's are permanent fixtures, so bringing your own just wouldn't be an option, especially with five bands on the bill...
Plus, big rigs have volume knobs too. I don't play louder than I have to, but it's nice to have the horsepower on tap if I need it.
I just want to add that I've played shows with as few as 1 person in the audience, and shows with 10,000 people in attendance.
I brought my 810 (if possible) for all of them.
No joke.
I like they way it sounds. I like the way it feels. And I like the way it looks.
Was it always necessary?
No.
Did it always sound good?
You're damn right it did.
I know where the volume is on my amp.
Sometimes it needs to go up, and sometimes it needs to go down.
Were there instances where a smaller cab would have been insufficient?
YES
I'm guessing most of the guys in here arguing that large rigs are unnecessary don't play what I consider heavy music (or even real rawk&roll for that matter), or else they'd sing a different tune.
~ 210s are for middle aged white collars, or as I like to call it "Dentistry Blues musicians"
I brought my 810 (if possible) for all of them.
No joke.
I like they way it sounds. I like the way it feels. And I like the way it looks.
Was it always necessary?
No.
Did it always sound good?
You're damn right it did.
I know where the volume is on my amp.
Sometimes it needs to go up, and sometimes it needs to go down.
Were there instances where a smaller cab would have been insufficient?
YES
I'm guessing most of the guys in here arguing that large rigs are unnecessary don't play what I consider heavy music (or even real rawk&roll for that matter), or else they'd sing a different tune.
~ 210s are for middle aged white collars, or as I like to call it "Dentistry Blues musicians"
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