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Cabinet Stand
- Thread starter ecolbeck
- Start date
Yes, I did. Hard maple base and black cherry top.
You have either misunderstood my intent, or didn't read it fully. My point is that I DO, and most of us here do care about our sound- but besides us, it really isn't something others notice so much, or really care about. I do not know a single bassist, or any other musician they uses a Db meter or any other audio analyzer on gigs. I HAVE seen Casino Pit Bosses, General Managers, and other sound police use them... to make sure bands do not exceed the Db limits. I stand by what I said. I spend more time on my sound at gigs than the other players usually do. Am I anal retentive? Maybe sometimes, I just know that even the most discerning band members don't know what bass I've brought to the gig. Most don't even notice that I'm left handed! I care. Maybe too much. I'm sure you do, too.
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This response and your previous post are strawmen. What has been discussed technically in this thread is basic physics and once understood, you actually need to measure little or not at all because you don't need to.
I have the gear to measure, and measure very well, but I have little need to because I know the theory and have done it before, so I KNOW what happens to the sound when you mount a bass cab on a stand, or angle it, so I can both describe it accurately and know how to adjust and compensate for it depending on what's required. Just plonking gear down and adjusting by ear without actually understanding what really happens, not the inaccuracies most musos believe as fact might get you a functional gig sound, but is much less likely to get you great sound.
For example, your earlier comment about the different responses between an empty and a full room are well understood, from measurement over decades and having that base knowledge will get you far closer than 'by ear' alone as the ear/brain interface is very inconsistent and full of errors in the same way the eye/brain interface is easily fooled with illusions.
You are correct that the audience generally does not know or care about the technicalities, or how good sound is achieved, but they do know the difference between good and crap.
Dismissing people with knowledge beyond yours says more about you than them.
Ah, another person who possesses less than average reading comprehension. it seems some here truly, are ignorant of my level of knowledge. You're assuming you have 'more' knowledge than I do- or perhaps, it's a 'different' kind of knowledge. I shouldn't have to qualify anything. This is TALK bass, not pissing contest bass. I'm not an Acoustician, but I've been a Luthier, and tech for more than half a Century. Yeah, I'm old. So what? I did not 'dismiss' you, nor anyone else. My posts were NOT directed at any particular person. Go back and re read them, if you still don't get it. Playing the bass since 1967. I really do not need to qualify my statements to you or anyone. Have a great night!
But you lead with an ad hom, showing you have little as little reading, as your technical comprehension.
Precisely where is my use of "ad hom?" You are at this point, simply looking for an argument. Not interested.
Whoah. I suppose I should have said something that didn't invoke actual science terms that I would inevitably fail to underatand and misuse. I appreciate the education.
Let me put it more like this: with a single elevated speaker I subjectively hear more mids and highs and less bass proportionally. With my 15s stacked and a few feet back from me I subjectively still experience the full bass of a cab on the floor while also hearing clarity and articulation. I freely admit I don't understand why, but I've tried lots of things in 36 years and that's my fave.
Also there's a great spot for my beer.
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The net effect of hearing stronger mids and highs is to perceive a decrease in the lows. But it’s only perceived and not real. Had a hard time wrapping my head around that at first.
So what does this mean in a practical sense and what (if anything) do we do about it?
- Does it mean that we actually don't like the sound of our cabs or that they were poorly designed? Or do we just need to accept their limitations?
- Does it mean that we should readjust the EQ when changing the cab's position relative to the floor? Or is that a fools errand because it's only a perceived change and not an actual change.
- To what extent does moving the cab change what the audience hears?
Right. Thank you. Somehow that essential point got lost in the noise.
BTW, love the stands. As mentioned, a built-in frame "kickstand" would be great...something that folds-up against the back of the enclosure but can be extended and locked into place allowing the desired tilt-back. Folks would be antsy about drilling addt'l holes in the cab but I bet we could incorporate the existing corner protectors.
Riis
My post about boundary effect was education about what's going on at low frequencies. It should not be taken as saying that a stand isn't a good idea - hearing more mids helps you know what note you're playing (which is a good thing) and hearing more highs (the attack of the note) helps you with timing. A stand can be a very good idea; it just doesn't do what some folks think it does to low frequencies.
Just FYI, here's a handy chart on: Boundary Cancellation and Room modes
Boundary Cancellation and Room Modes
Boundary Cancellation and Room Modes
That chart is good if you're along the line with the source and the closest point of the reflecting boundary (and you have to be away from either the boundary or the source) - everywhere else in the room, the math is different.
A "room mode" is not what that chart is addressing - a room mode comes from the distances between parallel surfaces, and also from more complicated modes that go diagonally across the room in 2 or 3 dimensions. That chart addresses a source/ nearby boundary reflection phenomenon along a particular direction.
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