Check out this $3000 "Fodera"!!

[sheepdog]

And it has a Bart P pickup with exposed pole pieces. Two more things that appear wrong with the description.

That still doesn't mean Vinny couldn't have made it.

quite possibly. and if he

1. provides a letter stating that
2. lists it as built by and not a "Fodera"
3. lists the features properly

this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue

 

[Simo98]

Bah, they removed it, wheres the fun in that.

 

[Just Thumpin']

Wow, sorry I am so lat to the party gang! Unfortunately I never did get a chance to see this thing! As someone earlier pointed out, Fodera didn't build its first instrument until 1983 and the Fodera bridge came a couple of years after that. Prior to that we used unadorned Schaller bridges...

Anyway, sorry that I missed it!

 

[Roy Vogt]

He could've gotten the years it was used wrong... or is that too impossible?

Did Vinny only build his first bass after he officially started his company? We (should) know that he bulit instruments prior to that.

Vinnie was primarily working for Ken Smith Basses before he started his company. I remember seeing very early prototypes in 1984 in NYC with either EMG P-J configurations or Soap Bars (EMG or Barts) in the case of 5s and 6s. I suppose he could have done work on this bass or built it from a kit, but is that a $3000 Fodera in this case?
Because none of us were there I guess we're all guessing, but we could use the same argument to prove we never went to the Moon (didn't FOX do some screwball show about that in the 90s, BTW?)
Reminds me of the "Alembics" I sometimes see on Ebay that look suspiciously like P Basses
If Roger Sadowsky adjusts my truss rod, does that make it a Sadowsky? How about if he replaces my pickups? At what point can I claim it's a Sadowsky?
If my cat has her litter of kittens in or under my stove does that make them biscuits?

 

[Roy Vogt]

Wow, sorry I am so lat to the party gang! Unfortunately I never did get a chance to see this thing! As someone earlier pointed out, Fodera didn't build its first instrument until 1983 and the Fodera bridge came a couple of years after that. Prior to that we used unadorned Schaller bridges...

Anyway, sorry that I missed it!

Wish you'd been here-you would have been proud to see the fine Precision knock-off that your company made

 

[kjpollo]

Wow, sorry I am so lat to the party gang! Unfortunately I never did get a chance to see this thing! As someone earlier pointed out, Fodera didn't build its first instrument until 1983 and the Fodera bridge came a couple of years after that. Prior to that we used unadorned Schaller bridges...

Anyway, sorry that I missed it!

It actually wasnt a bad looking bass but there's just no way it was an authentic Fodera.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Vinnie was primarily working for Ken Smith Basses before he started his company. I remember seeing very early prototypes in 1984 in NYC with either EMG P-J configurations or Soap Bars (EMG or Barts) in the case of 5s and 6s. I suppose he could have done work on this bass or built it from a kit, but is that a $3000 Fodera in this case?Because none of us were there I guess we're all guessing, but we could use the same argument to prove we never went to the Moon (didn't FOX do some screwball show about that in the 90s, BTW?)
Reminds me of the "Alembics" I sometimes see on Ebay that look suspiciously like P Basses
If Roger Sadowsky adjusts my truss rod, does that make it a Sadowsky? How about if he replaces my pickups? At what point can I claim it's a Sadowsky?
If my cat has her litter of kittens in or under my stove does that make them biscuits?

But you and others aren't acting like you're guessing, you're acting like you know. Some people see the difference.

Roy, you're obviously far more comfortable with assumptions over facts in your initial response than I am. Unless you were with Vinny every step along the way in his journey as a luthier... apparently you weren't. I OTOH have seen a few early basses by prominent builders that the "TB experts" loudly and quickly proclaimed were bogus... and they were wrong. Apparently you and a few others know Vinny's closet better than anyone else.


BTW hardware changes are typically called upgrades


Here's a silly question... anyone ever seen an older Fodera upgraded by Fodera? For example a Pope preamp in a bass that was built before Pope preamps were offered? Is it no longer a Fodera?

By the logic here I could loudly proclaim an early Ken Smith with a pickup swap isn't a Ken Smith... because Ken didn't offer those pickups. Or my 78 Tobias isn't a Tobias because Mike didn't install EMGs in basses back then. But Paul Reed Smith installed them in mine in the early 80's.


So your answer to this question is a definitive "no"?

"Did Vinny only build his first bass after he officially started his company?"


And yeah, if you bake those kittens they most certainly could be biscuits. Depends on how you present them. They could even be pancakes.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It actually wasnt a bad looking bass but there's just no way it was an authentic Fodera.

Because...?

You know Vinny never made a P bass style instrument?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Wish you'd been here-you would have been proud to see the fine Precision knock-off that your company made

Roy, Mike Tobias wasn't always a company. He started out as a guy who built instruments. They were still Tobiases. Vinny built things before he was a company, which you obviously already know.

The logic is fun.

 

[Brad Johnson]

quite possibly. and if he

1. provides a letter stating that
2. lists it as built by and not a "Fodera"
3. lists the features properly

this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue

A bass built by Vinny Fodera is not a Fodera? Why? I've always considered early work by a luthier that's not built under another name to be their own.

I agree that the listing should be accurate. I also know that if the seller is a non-bassist the things we find to be glaringly wrong are sometimes not as obvious.

I have questions about the bass' authenticity too. But before I go all angry mob storming castle Frankenstien (ebay), I'd take the photos/link, forward to Vinny and ASK HIM IF HE BUILT IT. Because I don't personally know one way or another.

 

[Rickett Customs]

Brad makes a very good point here ^^

You'd be surprised by some builder's early instruments, so maybe it's not a Fodera, that might not mean that perhaps Vinny may have/have not built it.

 

[kjpollo]

Brad makes a very good point here ^^

You'd be surprised by some builder's early instruments, so maybe it's not a Fodera, that might not mean that perhaps Vinny may have/have not built it.

I think whats being forgotten here is that the seller WAS advertising this as an actual Fodera with a pricetag to match.

Maybe Vinny DID cut a P-bass body out of koa and buy an ESP neck and made a franken-bass as a one-off, first-time project. But maybe he DIDNT.
I think its a HECK of a lot more likely that Vinny's only "connection" to this particular instrument is the fact that one of his bridges ended up on it. Just playing the odds on this one.

IMHO, its deceptive advertising, trying to cash in on the name and reputation of a highly respected luthier.

 

[rubato]

Here's some of the pics for those who missed it...

 

[bassteban]

Here's some of the pics for those who missed it...

Not seeing them- haven't lit my torch, but my pitchfork is handy.

 

[thepontif]

me either

 

[Rickett Customs]

It's been pulled, that's why.

 

[bongomania]

And to be clear, it was pulled by Ebay, not by the seller. If a seller closes an auction, it is still findable via searching completed auctions; whereas an auction pulled by Ebay will have that "this item has been removed" notice that is there now.

 

[Smurf-o-Deth]

Rule of thumb: someone making a claim that is outside accepted parameters (such as, the bass in question, which looks nothing like a Fodera bass, being a Fodera bass) has the onus of responsibility placed upon them to prove said claim. No amount of wrestling with semantics can overcome that. Obviously, that didn't happen, and eBay pulled the ad.

 

[Roy Vogt]

But you and others aren't acting like you're guessing, you're acting like you know. Some people see the difference.

Roy, you're obviously far more comfortable with assumptions over facts in your initial response than I am. Unless you were with Vinny every step along the way in his journey as a luthier... apparently you weren't. I OTOH have seen a few early basses by prominent builders that the "TB experts" loudly and quickly proclaimed were bogus... and they were wrong. Apparently you and a few others know Vinny's closet better than anyone else.

I do have limited knowledge, only having hung out at their workshop, been in and out of New York gigging and recording since 1984 and being a denizen of the 48th St. shops at the time, and been a player of custom instruments of one sort of another since 1976 (Alembic, Tobias, Modulus) dealing with the builders directly. Mike Tobias built the replacement neck for Jeff Berlin's 60s P Bass with twin Bartolini humbuckers that he later sold, so I know he made Fender replacements. Maybe Vinnie did-not sure he'd want a Fender type kit bass marketed under his name.
Generally, the thing I do know about builders are their philosphies. For instance, a lot of people don't know that Alembic imported and upgraded Japanese P and J copies in the late to mid-70s under the name Pan or Pan-Alembic. They were shipped to Alembic, who redid the shielding, wiring, etc. and marketed them under the Pan name. I suppose someone could make a case that they are Alembics on E-bay, but I'm not sure why. The design philosophy (exotic woods, neck-thru or set neck rarely, active electronics) just isn't there. So, are they Alembics because Rick Turner, Ron Wickersham and Co. tweaked them?
BTW, Brubakers are nice instruments. The solo bassist who won Guitar Players solo contest in 1984 played one.
We could always ask Vinnie if he ever built a P-Bass. Mike and Jason-can you make an inquiry?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I do have limited knowledge, only having hung out at their workshop, been in and out of New York gigging and recording since 1984, and been a player of custom instruments of one sort of another since 1976 (Alembic, Tobias, Modulus) dealing with the builders directly.
Generally, the thing I do know about builders are their philosphies. For instance, a lot of people don't know that Alembic imported and upgraded Japanese P and J copies in the late to mid-70s under the name Pan or Pan-Alembic. They were shipped to Alembic, who redid the shielding, wiring, etc. and marketed them under the Pan name. I suppose someone could make a case that they are Alembics on E-bay, but I'm not sure why.
BTW, Brubakers are nice instruments. The solo bassist who won Guitar Players solo contest in 1984 played one.
We could always ask Vinnie if he ever built a P-Bass.

This has nothing to do with how limited or expansive one's exposure is. This is about one piece and nothing else. When you first posted, could you definitively say it wasn't a Fodera? If not... see the problem I stated with the reactions?

People who didn't definitively know (aka people other than Vinnie) in effect called the guy a liar.

BTW I've been around boutique basses almost as long as you. That doesn't mean I know about every piece every luthier I'm personally familiar with might have built. I'm easily one of Mike Tobiases earliest customers but if I saw the same P style bass on ebay, substituting Tobias for Fodera, I wouln't go off like many did in this case. If I were truly interested in it's origin I'd ask the guy who supposedly built it. No bombing of an auction, no questioning of character, just get the facts... first. But hey, that's just me

Someone could make an Alembic connection to the basses you mentioned. And the reason why they'd do that is because more people are familiar with Alembic than Pan (Alembic). And there actually was a connection.

I didn't hook up with Kevin B. until the mid-90's and bought my first one around 1999. Thanks.