Club Sadowsky!!!

[Ivan M]

The guitar for Alejandro Sanz was actually a gift from Juan Luis Guerra. Juan Luis ordered the guitar as a gift to thank Alejandro for participating in his Haiti benefit concert in Santo Domingo last April. I shipped it right around the time of the Latin Grammys, so there is a good chance he has not seen the guitar yet.

Roger

I am into both their music, Mr. Sanz and Juan Luis Guerra, boy Alejandro is gonna be stoked when he sees and plays that baby, hopefully he had no clue so the surprise should be even better. Roger what is the writing at the very tip of the headstock? Thanks in advance.

 

[EagleMoon]

Looks like it says "La Funky".

 

[Chef]

So;
Alder/Morado RV5JJ, loaded with SC's, wearing new Blue Steels
versus
Ash/Maple MV5JJ, loaded with SC's, wearing the Blue Steels that it came from the shop with. Newish, but, not new.

So, what's the diff you ask?
Perhaps, not much, sort of

Took these two to two jobs this last weekend, one with my blues/jazz band, and one with a classic rock cover band.
Mesa M9>EpiUL410 one night,
Mesa M9>two LDS 2x8's stacked vertically the second night.

Both nights, both rigs, both basses:
extremely satisfying killer tone!
Fat, clean, articulate, and I really ran both basses with eq flat and VTC dialed back about 40-50%.
It is sooo easy to move blend one way or the other a tad for this song or that song, and also really easy to get a more aggressive solo tone by just opening up the VTC a little.
Super user friendly basses that way.

Surprising to me, but the top end seems to extend a little higher on the RV5. This might be cause the strings on it really are fresh, and have only a few hours on them.

Also surprising to me is that the MV5 seems to have a tad bit more native low end...nothing you can't dial into the RV5 easily enough with just a touch of bass boost though.

Last surprise was passive mode...I made myself try this on each bass the second night, and actually liked it enough that I ended up using it quite a bit. Engaging active mode provides a little more bass and treble extension, and a little more modern sound. Passive mode is nice when you want to tighten things up a little, and sound a little more old school. While it's not a creditable a passive tone as my Alleva, it's quite workable, and certainly not a "limp home when the battery dies" mode, for me.
I'm going to enjoy playing with that some more.

In the end, the biggest difference between these two seems to be where in the frequency range the top end lives. While it might be that an NYC RV5, with a gen-u-wine softer rosewood board would be softer than the MV5; in the case of these two particular basses, the Morado board of the RV5 seems to shift that roundwound zing up just a little higher than the MV5.

Might just be the strings though.

At any rate, and I can and will be happy using either of these for any job I get called for.

 

[simongpaez]

The guitar for Alejandro Sanz was actually a gift from Juan Luis Guerra. Juan Luis ordered the guitar as a gift to thank Alejandro for participating in his Haiti benefit concert in Santo Domingo last April. I shipped it right around the time of the Latin Grammys, so there is a good chance he has not seen the guitar yet.

Roger

Nice!! I bet he will love it, I have seen him with some Parkers in the past, this one will rock

 

[ElMon]

So;
Alder/Morado RV5JJ, loaded with SC's, wearing new Blue Steels
versus
Ash/Maple MV5JJ, loaded with SC's, wearing the Blue Steels that it came from the shop with. Newish, but, not new.

So, what's the diff you ask?
Perhaps, not much, sort of

Took these two to two jobs this last weekend, one with my blues/jazz band, and one with a classic rock cover band.
Mesa M9>EpiUL410 one night,
Mesa M9>two LDS 2x8's stacked vertically the second night.

Both nights, both rigs, both basses:
extremely satisfying killer tone!
Fat, clean, articulate, and I really ran both basses with eq flat and VTC dialed back about 40-50%.
It is sooo easy to move blend one way or the other a tad for this song or that song, and also really easy to get a more aggressive solo tone by just opening up the VTC a little.
Super user friendly basses that way.

Surprising to me, but the top end seems to extend a little higher on the RV5. This might be cause the strings on it really are fresh, and have only a few hours on them.

Also surprising to me is that the MV5 seems to have a tad bit more native low end...nothing you can't dial into the RV5 easily enough with just a touch of bass boost though.

Last surprise was passive mode...I made myself try this on each bass the second night, and actually liked it enough that I ended up using it quite a bit. Engaging active mode provides a little more bass and treble extension, and a little more modern sound. Passive mode is nice when you want to tighten things up a little, and sound a little more old school. While it's not a creditable a passive tone as my Alleva, it's quite workable, and certainly not a "limp home when the battery dies" mode, for me.
I'm going to enjoy playing with that some more.

In the end, the biggest difference between these two seems to be where in the frequency range the top end lives. While it might be that an NYC RV5, with a gen-u-wine softer rosewood board would be softer than the MV5; in the case of these two particular basses, the Morado board of the RV5 seems to shift that roundwound zing up just a little higher than the MV5.

Might just be the strings though.

At any rate, and I can and will be happy using either of these for any job I get called for.

I too LOVE the sound of Roger's basses when set passive and don't consider it a last option at ALL. Particularly if you have a muddy-sounding, crappy practice/church amp. Seems to have a leaner, more focused sound to me that just kills.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Alder/Morado RV5JJ, loaded with SC's, wearing new Blue Steels
versus
Ash/Maple MV5JJ, loaded with SC's, wearing the Blue Steels that it came from the shop with. Newish, but, not new.


Surprising to me, but the top end seems to extend a little higher on the RV5. This might be cause the strings on it really are fresh, and have only a few hours on them.

Also surprising to me is that the MV5 seems to have a tad bit more native low end...nothing you can't dial into the RV5 easily enough with just a touch of bass boost though.

Might just be the strings though.

Might be the strings, or it might be the wonderfully variable nature of wood. Can't make assumptions about tone based on materials. As Ed Friedland said in another thread:

For me it's about choosing the right wood combination and pickup configuration first. And of course, that is still no guarantee, tone is an individual thing. Not every alder body Jazz bass sounds equal.

I'm sure Ed would agree that not every alder/rosewood Jazz bass sounds equal.

That said, I really must set up a test between my two alder P5's, one with maple board and the other with Brazilian. Right now I have different brands of strings on them, so an A/B would be worthless. Perhaps when the current strings wear out I'll put a fresh set of blue label steels on each.

 

[KJung]

So;
Surprising to me, but the top end seems to extend a little higher on the RV5. This might be cause the strings on it really are fresh, and have only a few hours on them.

Also surprising to me is that the MV5 seems to have a tad bit more native low end...nothing you can't dial into the RV5 easily enough with just a touch of bass boost though.

IMO, this continues to be kind of misunderstood regarding more 60's style basses versus more 70's style basses. Ash/maple, in general, will have a more extended, deep low end and a brighter upper mid lower treble grind to them. With 70's pickup position, the top end seems to also extend a little bit more, but the Sadowsky MV5 are 60's position.

A more 60's spec alder/RW build actually will, again in general, have a more warm, round, less deep low end and a more upper treble sweetness, with a bit of a hole in the upper mids, which results in the tone discription many use of a more 60's spec'd instrument 'growling' and a 70's spec instrument grinding. That bit of hole in the upper mids allows the upper treble to 'speak' a bit more with that spec.

In your case, both of the spec's are pushed a bit closer together... your ash/maple instrument has 60's pickup position, and your alder/RW bass isn't really rosewood but rather Morado, which has a bit of that maple brightness to it.

So, your experience makes total sense. I think a lot of players think that an 'ash/maple' instrument will have more 'treble' than an alder/RW, but it is kind of just the opposite... more brightness, but actually that brightness can kind of cover up that sweet upper treble.

IMO and lots of IME!

 

[MikeBass]

Not sure if that's how those guitar stands work Chef.....Roger may want to chime in and maybe give some advice on this......

 

[MikeBass]

IMO, this continues to be kind of misunderstood regarding more 60's style basses versus more 70's style basses. Ash/maple, in general, will have a more extended, deep low end and a brighter upper mid lower treble grind to them. With 70's pickup position, the top end seems to also extend a little bit more, but the Sadowsky MV5 are 60's position.

A more 60's spec alder/RW build actually will, again in general, have a more warm, round, less deep low end and a more upper treble sweetness, with a bit of a hole in the upper mids, which results in the tone discription many use of a more 60's spec'd instrument 'growling' and a 70's spec instrument grinding. That bit of hole in the upper mids allows the upper treble to 'speak' a bit more with that spec.

In your case, both of the spec's are pushed a bit closer together... your ash/maple instrument has 60's pickup position, and your alder/RW bass isn't really rosewood but rather Morado, which has a bit of that maple brightness to it.

So, your experience makes total sense. I think a lot of players think that an 'ash/maple' instrument will have more 'treble' than an alder/RW, but it is kind of just the opposite... more brightness, but actually that brightness can kind of cover up that sweet upper treble.

IMO and lots of IME!

Oh yeah, but what kind of picks do you use?!?!??

 

[Chasarms]

Not sure if that's how those guitar stands work Chef.....Roger may want to chime in and maybe give some advice on this......

Actually, I am a lot more comfortable with using as shown than how they are "supposed" to be used. Those things terrify me.

In the words of Mama Klump: "Hercules! Hercules!"

 

[ElMon]

IMO, this continues to be kind of misunderstood regarding more 60's style basses versus more 70's style basses. Ash/maple, in general, will have a more extended, deep low end and a brighter upper mid lower treble grind to them. With 70's pickup position, the top end seems to also extend a little bit more, but the Sadowsky MV5 are 60's position.

A more 60's spec alder/RW build actually will, again in general, have a more warm, round, less deep low end and a more upper treble sweetness, with a bit of a hole in the upper mids, which results in the tone discription many use of a more 60's spec'd instrument 'growling' and a 70's spec instrument grinding. That bit of hole in the upper mids allows the upper treble to 'speak' a bit more with that spec.

In your case, both of the spec's are pushed a bit closer together... your ash/maple instrument has 60's pickup position, and your alder/RW bass isn't really rosewood but rather Morado, which has a bit of that maple brightness to it.

So, your experience makes total sense. I think a lot of players think that an 'ash/maple' instrument will have more 'treble' than an alder/RW, but it is kind of just the opposite... more brightness, but actually that brightness can kind of cover up that sweet upper treble.

IMO and lots of IME!

As usual your tonal palette is well-developed. I hear that 2007 was an exceptionally 'low-endy' year for alder, and that 2010's selection of ash has a slight hint of mint and lavender. Thoughts?



Seriously though, dead on. As for morado, I LOVED how the RV5 I had responded up high played fingerstyle, but did NOT like the slap tone compared to maple. ALL solved by switching to Braz RW/Alder!!! My current brz rw/alder PJ5, compared to the ash/maple PJ5 it replaced, has more lowmid content to the lows which translates (to MY ears) as a thicker sound, but not as much extension in the sub-lows, which I like. With careful tweaks of the bass/treb/VTC, I could get them to sound almost identical.

 

[KJung]

Seriously though, dead on. As for morado, I LOVED how the RV5 I had responded up high played fingerstyle, but did NOT like the slap tone compared to maple. ALL solved by switching to Braz RW/Alder!!! My current brz rw/alder PJ5, compared to the ash/maple PJ5 it replaced, has more lowmid content to the lows which translates (to MY ears) as a thicker sound, but not as much extension in the sub-lows, which I like. With careful tweaks of the bass/treb/VTC, I could get them to sound almost identical.

+1... I greatly prefer an ash/maple spec personally, but it has nothing to do with 'treble response'. The one thing that you can't get anything but an ash/maple spec do do IMO is that upper mid 'gank'. Of course, many don't dig that... it sounds quite harsh in a solo setting. But it is that classic 'hear with windings on the E string' sort of thing that I love in a mix (when all that pretty upper treble disappears the first time the drummer hits the hi hat). It's easy to roll that off with an upper mid control on many amps (that 800hz to 1K thing), but impossible (IMO and IME) to EQ in.

 

[KJung]

Oh yeah, but what kind of picks do you use?!?!??

Old school iron with an ash handle. That really crushes the rock good

 

[Joeykun]

I am a big fan of Ash/Maple tone as well.
I happen to like the treble response it produces.
Rosewood was never something I warmed up to. No pun intended!

 

[KJung]

I am a big fan of Ash/Maple tone as well.
I happen to like the treble response it produces.
Rosewood was never something I warmed up to. No pun intended!

Your clips are just a wonderful example of the ash/maple grind, and your use of the HC pickups (versus my love of the more grindy/meaty single coils) also adds that bit of upper treble that you lose a bit with the SC's, which really sounds nice and biting in a mix (especially in the context that you are playing now). Totally dig it

 

[ElMon]

+1... I greatly prefer an ash/maple spec personally, but it has nothing to do with 'treble response'. The one thing that you can't get anything but an ash/maple spec do do IMO is that upper mid 'gank'. Of course, many don't dig that... it sounds quite harsh in a solo setting. But it is that classic 'hear with windings on the E string' sort of thing that I love in a mix (when all that pretty upper treble disappears the first time the drummer hits the hi hat). It's easy to roll that off with an upper mid control on many amps (that 800hz to 1K thing), but impossible (IMO and IME) to EQ in.

Indeed!! Someday, $$$-willing, I'll have an ash/maple MV5 with Singles because as you say 'nothing else can get THAT sound'. I don't particularly NEED that sound for what I do, but it DOES give me shivers when I hear it from gents like yourself! Also, HUGE +1 to the last sentence. My general rule is that you can EQ anything out, but you cannot add what is not there in the first place. IME at least.

I am a big fan of Ash/Maple tone as well.
I happen to like the treble response it produces.
Rosewood was never something I warmed up to. No pun intended!

Nothing but solid gold zingers here!!!

 

[Chasarms]

Since we are debating nuance in the first place, does anyone have any thoughts on how a figured top plays into the equation. I can see how a layer of Maple on top of ash is no big deal, but if you put a fairly hard wood on top of alder, I have to wonder if it would behave the same a solid alder body would behave.

Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Joeykun]

Your clips are just a wonderful example of the ash/maple grind, and your use of the HC pickups (versus my love of the more grindy/meaty single coils) also adds that bit of upper treble that you lose a bit with the SC's, which really sounds nice and biting in a mix (especially in the context that you are playing now). Totally dig it

Thanks, Ken. I have been favoring the bridge pickup on some songs lately and it really kills!! I love the HC pups in the 4 bangers!!

Your clips with the Orange Bomber and Vics video from his church gig totally kill as well. I just love the Sadowsky tone.

Nothing but solid gold zingers here!!!

Thanks..... they do Zing!!!

 

[Joeykun]

Since we are debating nuance in the first place, does anyone have any thoughts on how a figured top plays into the equation. I can see how a layer of Maple on top of ash is no big deal, but if you put a fairly hard wood on top of alder, I have to wonder if it would behave the same a solid alder body would behave.

Talk amongst yourselves.

Roger says no. I asked this very question before.

 

[4-string]

+1... I greatly prefer an ash/maple spec personally, but it has nothing to do with 'treble response'. The one thing that you can't get anything but an ash/maple spec do do IMO is that upper mid 'gank'. Of course, many don't dig that... it sounds quite harsh in a solo setting. But it is that classic 'hear with windings on the E string' sort of thing that I love in a mix (when all that pretty upper treble disappears the first time the drummer hits the hi hat). It's easy to roll that off with an upper mid control on many amps (that 800hz to 1K thing), but impossible (IMO and IME) to EQ in.

This is pretty much how I hear the differences between ss and nickel rounds, generally speaking. YMMV of course.

For the first time in my life I really want a 5-string, and for the first time ever I want something from the P-bass family. PJ5 somewhere in the future. I blame you guys.