CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

[Wisebass]

Hi Twofer

Bad bands did always exist! (And bad bands don 't get payed well)

To simplify the format and chord voicings of basic rock songs that you've been playing since the 60s????

Don' t you know: Playing things right, setting up a great show and dressing sharp… is too much work

I am always shocked by the number of folks,

who think that good musicians and entertainers have no fun when they gig.

Bunch of entitled.....

had to be quoted


greetings

Wise

 

[FunkHead]

You mean the same 50 miles where it's legal to have a Junk yard in your front yard. I'm not judging,just stating a fact.

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Imagine trying to sell your pristine home whilst potential buyers had to drive past some of these fine residences. Luckily I broke even. And Yes, I played many Bar Gigs in NC in the 10 years I lived there.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I have beem playing for money in bars since 1987. I was a teenager then playing in a band made up of thirty-somethings. Shortly after that I moved from home to hear where I live now. At that time I made a living by playing in five different bands. They literally had to check my schedule before they could book a show. (Bass players were rare.) Then, after that I made a living in a band that was 70% private/corporate and 25% bars with a few festivals annually throughout the Mid-Atlantic region. After that I went into fill-in gigs. I have filled in with just over 60 acts in virtually every genre. I have done pitt orchestra and church. I have taught bass lessons to as many as 32 students at once. I have worked in two music stores totaling ten years. And I briefly booked two clubs (how annoying)...... all in this area.


I would simply say that you would be hard pressed to find a dozen people within 50 miles of me who are more equipped to discuss the history, changes, and current state of the music scene in my area (since the mid 80s) than I am. A couple of recently-retired club owners, two guitar players, one drummer and a singer (off the top of my head... there are likely a few more) have been more involved in the scene for longer than I have in the area.

Does that make me amazing? Of course not. There are plenty of musicians here with many more accomplishments than that.

Does that mean I am qualified to discuss virtually every aspect of my music scene, including what is tearing it down? It sure does.

I am not wrong about my music scene.ISo there's no need to admit I'm wrong. I am simply blunt, honest, and realistic about it.

I still want to see your band. Not to bash, just curious.

 

[MtManiac]

I have beem playing for money in bars since 1987. I was a teenager then playing in a band made up of thirty-somethings. Shortly after that I moved from home to hear where I live now. At that time I made a living by playing in five different bands. They literally had to check my schedule before they could book a show. (Bass players were rare.) Then, after that I made a living in a band that was 70% private/corporate and 25% bars with a few festivals annually throughout the Mid-Atlantic region. After that I went into fill-in gigs. I have filled in with just over 60 acts in virtually every genre. I have done pitt orchestra and church. I have taught bass lessons to as many as 32 students at once. I have worked in two music stores totaling ten years. And I briefly booked two clubs (how annoying)...... all in this area.


I would simply say that you would be hard pressed to find a dozen people within 50 miles of me who are more equipped to discuss the history, changes, and current state of the music scene in my area (since the mid 80s) than I am. A couple of recently-retired club owners, two guitar players, one drummer and a singer (off the top of my head... there are likely a few more) have been more involved in the scene for longer than I have in the area.

Does that make me amazing? Of course not. There are plenty of musicians here with many more accomplishments than that.

Does that mean I am qualified to discuss virtually every aspect of my music scene, including what is tearing it down? It sure does.

I am not wrong about my music scene.ISo there's no need to admit I'm wrong. I am simply blunt, honest, and realistic about it.

I 100% agree, you have lots of valuable and relevant experience! I respectfully walk back my comments to you.

However - your opinion still seems to be based on a sense of entitlement, and I believe that you will find that is what people here are objecting to. None of us here has an actual entitlement to gigs.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I 100% agree, you have lots of valuable and relevant experience! I respectfully walk back my comments to you.

However - your opinion still seems to be based on a sense of entitlement, and I believe that you will find that is what people here are objecting to. None of us here has an actual entitlement to gigs.

Photographers are complaining about friends and family taking wedding gigs with their dSLRs. studios are complaining that everyone is recording at home now, radio stations complaining that streaming and satellite is killing their market, newspapers can't sell papers and do a crappy job online. Things and markets are continuously changing. Don't get comfortable in what you're doing, keep looking for the next thing.

 

[Pbassmanca]

You touched on demand, (demand stays the same), then you go right to the guys playing for free. You can't go there because demand has not stayed the same. Demand for music, demand for a party evening out, demand to drink in a bar, instead of drinking at home....all these demands have been reduced, and in the free market, prices for bands (supply glut) have to come down. They call it a "Law" of supply and demand. I don't know if it can be a "Law" but indeed it plays out over and over.

You're absolutely right, except that I would add that I think demand for live music is a local and Regional phenomenon. There are definitely some areas where the demand has lessened over the years but I think in order for us to know for sure we would have to have statistics on a city to City or town to town basis.

 

[frankie5string]

Sure, many did. There was a time where record companies sent people to bars to find bands to sign and make money off of them. No doubt.

Nobody is saying it can't be done. And certainly, with time and talent, you too can give a record company the middle finger (assuming they want anything to do with you to begin with...) and make your own album and hustle to a cult following. That's STILL not what the vast majority of bar/pub cover bands did.

Not even close to the way it was 50-60 years ago.

I am almost certain that somewhere, there's a group playing some bar, out there, and they're throwing in original material and aiming for that deal and working to be seen by a record company, or some promotion. The ones I've met certainly weren't telling others to stick to their basement jams. ;-)

What major band didn't play the bar circuit ?
The thing is that many of them got out of that rut and moved UP!
Rush played the bars for about six years and then they got a record deal... six years later they were selling out three nighters everywhere and playing music that they wanted to play.. imagine that, they didn't have to keep playing "Sweet Home Alabama" and "Brown Eye Girl" for the rest of their lives pretending to be rockstars in the local pub for their Facebook friends likes. They also gave the record company the middle finger when they said "produce an album with a hit"... and they wrote 2112. So there.
Bar gigs, festival shows, corporate gigs... what else is there?? Concert venues for local bands ?? Nope.
Play the bar set, sell the bar owners beer... wash, rinse, repeat. How does a band go beyond that these days?
I guess you have to have "connections".. and rip off Led Zeppelin to a "T" and call it original.

 

[Bass Viking]

Even if people get drunk and destroy a urinal and it costs him $800 to replace, he still makes more money.

That's some powerful uric acid!

 

[Bass Viking]

8) we can and do get gigs because we play what gets people on the floor and gets them buying beer. We don’t do 18 minute Jazz odysseys or “play what we like.” We are doing Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, and Honky Tonk Women, and we are making the 45+ year old girls scream and woohoo. It’s a lot of fun, and it’s why I want to play gigs.

I don't see it as an either/or situation. Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl and Honky Tonk Women is what's wrong with so many bands IMO and I say that as an audience member. Too many bands default to these tired and worn tunes because they can't or won't learn anything different. There are plenty of non-obscure songs a band could play that would set them apart from the rest of the pack.

 

[Passinwind]

I attended a neighborhood Superbowl party last night. The host's father was visiting NC from Upstate New York. He's a private party DJ. He used to do clubs as well. He's older than me..... maybe in his 60s if I had to guess. He started DJing on 1978 and has been doing it steady ever since.

(By the way, he did his first job entirely on a phone last week. He literally had Spotify and Amazon Prime apps going on his phone and took requests as well as having a "set list". The times, they are uh changin'.)

Get this......


He told me that it's "getting harder and harder to find work". Wanna know why?

He said that "Little bands are springing up everywhere all over the country. Not only are people getting tired of DJs. But these little garage bands will play for LESS MONEY THAN I CAN DO IT FOR."

You read that last part correctly.

We have had this discussion here before. Yes, it's been beat to death. But coming from a DJ who has been in the biz for decades it really hit home for me.

Two things struck me.

1) The whole time we live musicians are pissing and moaning about not getting work because of DJs, they're out there pissing and moaning about not getting work because of "hack bands" (his words).

Nope, successful musicians and DJ's don't generally piss and moan about that stuff IMO and IME. If it's getting harder and harder to make it work then they mostly just work harder and harder.

 

[Bass Viking]

I don't want "more" gigs.... and never said I did.

What I want is for awful bands to stay home. What I want is for good bands to charge more. What I want is a rising tide in the local music business. What I want is for the average quality of live music in small bars to go up.

I don't want more gigs. I want better gigs. And I want to see better live music when I go out. Geezers in socks and sandles hacking up simplified versions of same old same olds with horrible production for tips ARE hurting the music scene.... by sucking as much as playing for cheap.

I sympathize with this. Just this morning I was watching a YouTube video of a local band performing at a nearby venue. It was just kind of mediocre with no distinguishing features that makes we want to go check them out. The video was shot from the audience with a cellphone and had poor quality sound like so many of the videos bands use to promote themselves. The song was Listen to the Music (Doobie Brothers) and I couldn't help noticing that the guitarist was playing it wrong, using a major chord instead of the correct minor chord. This may sound like nitpicking but if a guy can't hear the difference between major and minor?

 

[City]

I have beem playing for money in bars since 1987. I was a teenager then playing in a band made up of thirty-somethings. Shortly after that I moved from home to hear where I live now. At that time I made a living by playing in five different bands. They literally had to check my schedule before they could book a show. (Bass players were rare.) Then, after that I made a living in a band that was 70% private/corporate and 25% bars with a few festivals annually throughout the Mid-Atlantic region. After that I went into fill-in gigs. I have filled in with just over 60 acts in virtually every genre. I have done pitt orchestra and church. I have taught bass lessons to as many as 32 students at once. I have worked in two music stores totaling ten years. And I briefly booked two clubs (how annoying)...... all in this area.


I would simply say that you would be hard pressed to find a dozen people within 50 miles of me who are more equipped to discuss the history, changes, and current state of the music scene in my area (since the mid 80s) than I am. A couple of recently-retired club owners, two guitar players, one drummer and a singer (off the top of my head... there are likely a few more) have been more involved in the scene for longer than I have in the area.

Does that make me amazing? Of course not. There are plenty of musicians here with many more accomplishments than that.

Does that mean I am qualified to discuss virtually every aspect of my music scene, including what is tearing it down? It sure does.

I am not wrong about my music scene.ISo there's no need to admit I'm wrong. I am simply blunt, honest, and realistic about it.

My point exactly. If you wouldn't have taken those fill-in gigs and just let those bands fail, there would have been less supply and your primary band could have had a monopoly over all of the eastern Southeast. By playing in multiple bands you are shooting yourself in the foot by helping provide the glut of bands in your area. So stop that, focus on one band and let those other guys fail. Thus your "band" would be in demand.

 

[Teijo K.]

I still don't believe its the other bands. Most hack bands are probably doing more good for the music scene than bad. Starting out you talk your friends and sometimes even family to come to gigs. People learn to go to gigs like that. What good bands are up against today is all the other entertainment that is available. A lot of the audience is also people who used to play in a band and played some gigs but "can't do it anymore man".

Your band or Netflix marathon? Band or staying home arguing in Talk bass? I think one huge thing is phone applications for dating. No need to go to a bar or a nightclub when you can swipe a partner at home with your phone.

I actually have had similar conversations with my Capoeira teacher and my kickboxing teacher. And in those cases no I don't buy the theories about other sports schools or like crosfit. We are actually in the business of people's spare time, and the competition for that is a lot more complicated than hack bands. I mean even Hollywood is suffering from it.

So I do believe things are changing around us, but I am not buying any of the reasons why you have.

 

[FunkHead]

I can actually sum this all up in one word. Adaptability.

 

[TheReceder]

Some good quotes from this thread...

People judging others and seemingly not being able to see themselves in a
"True Light".

Ever since they outlawed incandescent light bulbs my band looks better. True light sucks. Live the fantasy.

 

[two fingers]

How many of those bands were playing the "four chord version of Brown Eyed Girl" and got signed because of it?

Hootie was playing the four chord version of Hootie. Or is there a Hootie song with more than three?

Seriously though. They were doing some covers. And they did them well.

 

[two fingers]

Interesting tactic - reduce the broad argument that you were initially pushing, down to something that no one else can dispute: your specific situation. So, why would you feel the need to engage the rest of TB in a discussion so specific, that you are the only one qualified to speak about?

Well, of course, ANYONE who offers an opinion here can ONLY speak to his/her personal experiences. Duh.

I have said in this thread dozens of times phrases like "in my area" or "bars near me" etc.

I'm going to keep rolling with the assumption that every time you offer an opinion, it is filtered through your own experiences. That seems like a logical leap.

 

[Spidey2112]

How bout this, for some crazy perspective?

Disclaimer: This meme was generated a little after the Civil War.

 

[two fingers]

You mean the same 50 miles where it's legal to have a Junk yard in your front yard. I'm not judging,just stating a fact.

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I tried the truck pool. It was great right up until I needed more beer and had to move the truck. That made a mess and dumped my cousin/girlfriend out on a gravel road. (Don't tell my cousin/wife.)

Besides, how can I get to my junk if it ain't in my yard??????

 

[Spidey2112]

Besides, how can I get to my junk if it ain't in my yard??????

I ask this question every timed I'm forced to wear underwear...