Dingwall Owners Club

[MultiScaleMale]

And here Sheldon talks about the frets being soft to start and then work harden with use. This is only a link since it’s a video.

 

[Mr_BK]

When I was worried about those lines on the frets of my all new Z3 ... Dingwall CS wrote the same thing ... the frets being softer at the beginning and hardening with use and that this was normal.
Seems that they were right

 

[Bassheart365]

Dingwall does not use stainless steel frets. SS frets are rarely used on any basses. SS fret wire is very stiff and harder to cut and install than standard fret wire.

 

[Mr_BK]

Dingwall does not use stainless steel frets. SS frets are rarely used on any basses. SS fret wire is very stiff and harder to install than standard fret wire.

I have a Mike Lull P5 with Stainless frets. It was an option with a price tag at the time.

 

[Nayatteu]

One of each once the import models land?

In all seriousness -- what will you pick up and play more? I do agree, somewhat, that 5 string (or low tuned 4s) tend to showcase the benefit of multiscale in very real and clear ways, but the benefits of it extend to 4 string just as well. It may just not be as pronounced then.

Sorry for the late reply.

Yes, we have 4 and 5-string models in stock, so we had a lot to think about.

These are the pictures below.

 

[been_effected]

That J is calling my name!

 

[Bassinga]

If you're experiencing a reduction in sustain, or other factors that couldn't be fixed with a minor action adjustment, it may be time to talk the Dingwall HQ in Saskatoon.

Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't hang around this thread or drool over catalogues very much, so it's possible that Sheldon is offering stainless frets these days, but historically, they've always been standard fret wire, in a smaller size than you'll see on a typical Fender. The Sklar is unique, in that it comes with Lee's preferred ultra-small wire (mandolin frets, I believe?).

If you look at any well-played Dingwall, you'll see small scratches that cross the fret at a diagonal.

This was something that I wondered about early on, but it turns out to be a fanned-fret thing, and a natural consequence of the angle that the strings hit the frets.

At least the way I understand it, the small wire size increases the surface contact between the pads of your fingers and the fingerboard, which may explain why these basses are so easy on the hands, and don't seem to need fret replacement as often as you might expect.

I only have two basses in heavy rotation, and my 2013 ABZ-5 is my #1. Despite over a decade of heavy use, the marks on the frets don't seem to have deepened any since I first noticed them around 2014 or 15...

Actually, what I'm getting is some buzzing at the first 3-4 frets of my B-string. The string height at the first 3-4 frets is more than I am comfortable with and my fretting hand gets tired after longer playing sessions. I'm not concered with any marks on the frets as I know those are nothing to worry about.

I recently took my bass to my local luthier whom I trust so he can set it up and try to get rid of the buzzing. He said that the frets are level so that's not the issue. He said he straightened the neck by adjusting the truss rod and set up the bass (there is still a bit of buzzing). But he also mentioned that the truss rod is now maxed out. He said he doesn't want to push it anymore for fear of breaking the truss rod.

This is the first I've heard of a truss rod on a Dingwall being maxed out to be honest and I'm quite surprised.

I think it's time to send an email to Dingwall and see what their input is.

 

[AB Nate]

Actually, what I'm getting is some buzzing at the first 3-4 frets of my B-string. The string height at the first 3-4 frets is more than I am comfortable with and my fretting hand gets tired after longer playing sessions. I'm not concered with any marks on the frets as I know those are nothing to worry about.

I recently took my bass to my local luthier whom I trust so he can set it up and try to get rid of the buzzing. He said that the frets are level so that's not the issue. He said he straightened the neck by adjusting the truss rod and set up the bass (there is still a bit of buzzing). But he also mentioned that the truss rod is now maxed out. He said he doesn't want to push it anymore for fear of breaking the truss rod.

This is the first I've heard of a truss rod on a Dingwall being maxed out to be honest and I'm quite surprised.

I think it's time to send an email to Dingwall and see what their input is.

Perhaps a new nut will fix your problems.

Curious about your truss rod though.

 

[davio]

This is the first I've heard of a truss rod on a Dingwall being maxed out to be honest and I'm quite surprised.

I think it's time to send an email to Dingwall and see what their input is.

Perhaps a new nut will fix your problems.

Curious about your truss rod though.

With the buzzing just in the first few frets, the truss rod might actually be *too* tight. Tightening the truss rod causes back bow, in turn causing buzz in the lowest frets. Might be a matter of loosening it slightly and lowering the bridge saddles to compensate for the higher action.

I had this issue a few years ago but my G saddle was maxed all the way down. Dingwall makes full-contact, tapered neck pocket shims to help with this but I believe they'll only send them to techs to make sure they're actually needed. If you go this route, have your tech email [email protected]

 

[Nolan Tremblay]

Actually, what I'm getting is some buzzing at the first 3-4 frets of my B-string. The string height at the first 3-4 frets is more than I am comfortable with and my fretting hand gets tired after longer playing sessions. I'm not concered with any marks on the frets as I know those are nothing to worry about.

I recently took my bass to my local luthier whom I trust so he can set it up and try to get rid of the buzzing. He said that the frets are level so that's not the issue. He said he straightened the neck by adjusting the truss rod and set up the bass (there is still a bit of buzzing). But he also mentioned that the truss rod is now maxed out. He said he doesn't want to push it anymore for fear of breaking the truss rod.

This is the first I've heard of a truss rod on a Dingwall being maxed out to be honest and I'm quite surprised.

I think it's time to send an email to Dingwall and see what their input is.

Did the luthier propose a reason for the buzzing? I'll presume that the luthier can do a competent setup, but there are setup issues that could cause the symptoms you are experience, particularly if you're saying the string height at the first few frets is quite high, which leads me to suspect the nut is not slotted to the correct depth for the B or possiblly that you're using a heavier gauge string that doesn't fit. I would then question if your action height is correct on those strings.

If you're confident all of that is good, I'd contact Dingwall. At the end of the day, the neck is wood and wood can be prone to movement. Despite Dingwall having an excellent track record, there's always the chance that a particular piece of wood might have a problem down the road. It sounds like it may be your issue.

 

[Pablo504]

Actually, what I'm getting is some buzzing at the first 3-4 frets of my B-string. The string height at the first 3-4 frets is more than I am comfortable with and my fretting hand gets tired after longer playing sessions. I'm not concered with any marks on the frets as I know those are nothing to worry about.

I recently took my bass to my local luthier whom I trust so he can set it up and try to get rid of the buzzing. He said that the frets are level so that's not the issue. He said he straightened the neck by adjusting the truss rod and set up the bass (there is still a bit of buzzing). But he also mentioned that the truss rod is now maxed out. He said he doesn't want to push it anymore for fear of breaking the truss rod.

This is the first I've heard of a truss rod on a Dingwall being maxed out to be honest and I'm quite surprised.

I think it's time to send an email to Dingwall and see what their input is.

This may be of no help whatsoever, but throwing this out just because it is similar.

I was developing a slight buzz at the 13th fret of the G string on my AB2-5 a couple of years ago. There was no change in setup, and this bass has been extremely stable since it was built. I was baffled.

Talked to Dingwall, they suggested taking it to Mo. Then I brought it up here on the forum, and a couple of our sages suggested looking at the strings. (Duh... I'm not the sharpest pencil I guess.) Put on a new set of Paysons and problem solved...

 

[AB Nate]

I have had a few frets rise up before(yes, on a dingwall) closer to the neck. Easy fix was push em back in(re-set them) . FB must have dried a bit over time allowing them to escape. I don’t think this is the discussed issue either but it’s one of the things that can cause grief.

 

[Bassinga]

Hey all, thank you very much for you suggestions. I believe most of the points you mentioned have been covered and I will respond to them here.

Perhaps a new nut will fix your problems.

Curious about your truss rod though.

My tech has checked the nut slot width and height and says that it is within the normal range for a .145 B string (I'm tuned to A currently)

With the buzzing just in the first few frets, the truss rod might actually be *too* tight. Tightening the truss rod causes back bow, in turn causing buzz in the lowest frets. Might be a matter of loosening it slightly and lowering the bridge saddles to compensate for the higher action.

I had this issue a few years ago but my G saddle was maxed all the way down. Dingwall makes full-contact, tapered neck pocket shims to help with this but I believe they'll only send them to techs to make sure they're actually needed. If you go this route, have your tech email [email protected]

I believe that the truss rod is not too tight since the height of the strings at the first 1-5 frets is quite height which makes me think the neck has too much relief. Also, I'm only getting buzzing on the B string (A string for me since I'm tuned one step down). I believe if the neck was back bowed, I would be getting buzzing on all the strings.

Did the luthier propose a reason for the buzzing? I'll presume that the luthier can do a competent setup, but there are setup issues that could cause the symptoms you are experience, particularly if you're saying the string height at the first few frets is quite high, which leads me to suspect the nut is not slotted to the correct depth for the B or possiblly that you're using a heavier gauge string that doesn't fit. I would then question if your action height is correct on those strings.

If you're confident all of that is good, I'd contact Dingwall. At the end of the day, the neck is wood and wood can be prone to movement. Despite Dingwall having an excellent track record, there's always the chance that a particular piece of wood might have a problem down the road. It sounds like it may be your issue.

I am indeed using a thicker gauge, a .145 for the B string (which is now tuned to A). But the nut slot was widened and the height was checked by my luthier (I checked it as well and the string is sitting flush in the slot) and he says that it's not the problem. Regarding the action at the 12th fret, I'm currently measuring around 2.00 mm from the 12th fret. But the height at the first 1-5 frets is still uncomfortable.

This may be of no help whatsoever, but throwing this out just because it is similar.

I was developing a slight buzz at the 13th fret of the G string on my AB2-5 a couple of years ago. There was no change in setup, and this bass has been extremely stable since it was built. I was baffled.

Talked to Dingwall, they suggested taking it to Mo. Then I brought it up here on the forum, and a couple of our sages suggested looking at the strings. (Duh... I'm not the sharpest pencil I guess.) Put on a new set of Paysons and problem solved...

Unfortunately this has been a problem through 2-3 re-strings at this point. I'm using Payson Drop A Nickel strings and love them btw!

I have had a few frets rise up before(yes, on a dingwall) closer to the neck. Easy fix was push em back in(re-set them) . FB must have dried a bit over time allowing them to escape. I don’t think this is the discussed issue either but it’s one of the things that can cause grief.

I'll visually inspect the frets today after work.

I've been in contact with Dingwall and their tech rep requested certain information about the setup. I'll take some pictures today after work and sent them over. Hopefully we can get this sorted out without needing a Trans-atlantic flight halfway across the world

Once again, thanks all for the input!

 

[steve_rolfeca]

…I believe that the truss rod is not too tight since the height of the strings at the first 1-5 frets is quite height which makes me think the neck has too much relief. Also, I'm only getting buzzing on the B string (A string for me since I'm tuned one step down)…

… .145 for the B string (which is now tuned to A). But the nut slot was widened and the height was checked by my luthier (I checked it as well and the string is sitting flush in the slot) and he says that it's not the problem. Regarding the action at the 12th fret, I'm currently measuring around 2.00 mm from the 12th fret. But the height at the first 1-5 frets is still uncomfortable.

…I've been in contact with Dingwall and their tech rep requested certain information about the setup. I'll take some pictures today after work and sent them over.

See my bold text items, above.

I’m struggling to visualize the geometry of this problem…

Buzzing only occurs on the lowest string. Action is too high on all the strings in the first position, and pretty low at the 12th. Assuming that the neck is straight and everything is adjusted correctly, then these symptoms are contradictory.

Taken together, they would normally suggest one or more of the following: the neck had a twist, a fret or frets were lifted near the nut under the fifth string, there was a localized hump in the fingerboard, or the nut and/or saddle for that string were set too low.

As others have pointed out, wood can move around, even with hand-selected lumber and a 5-piece laminated neck. But when it does, that movement can be quickly detected via a quick inspection with a ruler and a set of feeler gauges.

But you and your tech seem to agree that the answer is “none of the above”.

Are you sure that the buzz is really fret rattle?

I became the guitar tech for our family business around 1970, and I’ve heard more than my share of weird noises.

Unless there’s some other obvious issue, like you’re whacking the heck out of just the one string, or trying to de-tune it down to the A an octave below drop-A tuning, I’d be looking for unwanted resonances.

For example, when people accidentally break a truss rod, it can rattle around inside the neck and cause a pitch-dependent buzz that’s hard to isolate. Ditto for a bad string, cracks in the neck or headstock, or loose components in the electronics cavity/bridge/tuners (unlikely in this case, since those are generally pretty easy to identify).

Regardless, it’s unlikely that a trip across the pond will be necessary- I imagine that Dingwall has relationships with knowledgeable, experienced techs like Mo in other countries…

 

[steve_rolfeca]

This is the first I've heard of a truss rod on a Dingwall being maxed out to be honest and I'm quite surprised.

Me, too.

It’s particularly odd, given that you’re tuned down a whole tone.

Like many Canadians, I’m not careful enough about controlling the humidity in my house, especially in the winter. As a result, my ABZ usually needs a tweak when the heat comes on in late fall, and again in the spring. But it’s literally one flat on the Allen wrench, and only needed because I’m picky.

 

[Nolan Tremblay]

See my bold text items, above.

I’m struggling to visualize the geometry of this problem…

Buzzing only occurs on the lowest string. Action is too high on all the strings in the first position, and pretty low at the 12th. Assuming that the neck is straight and everything is adjusted correctly, then these symptoms are contradictory.

Taken together, they would normally suggest one or more of the following: the neck had a twist, a fret or frets were lifted near the nut under the fifth string, there was a localized hump in the fingerboard, or the nut and/or saddle for that string were set too low.

As others have pointed out, wood can move around, even with hand-selected lumber and a 5-piece laminated neck. But when it does, that movement can be quickly detected via a quick inspection with a ruler and a set of feeler gauges.

But you and your tech seem to agree that the answer is “none of the above”.

Are you sure that the buzz is really fret rattle?

I became the guitar tech for our family business around 1970, and I’ve heard more than my share of weird noises.

Unless there’s some other obvious issue, like you’re whacking the heck out of just the one string, or trying to de-tune it down to the A an octave below drop-A tuning, I’d be looking for unwanted resonances.

For example, when people accidentally break a truss rod, it can rattle around inside the neck and cause a pitch-dependent buzz that’s hard to isolate. Ditto for a bad string, cracks in the neck or headstock, or loose components in the electronics cavity/bridge/tuners (unlikely in this case, since those are generally pretty easy to identify).

Regardless, it’s unlikely that a trip across the pond will be necessary- I imagine that Dingwall has relationships with knowledgeable, experienced techs like Mo in other countries…

I’d certainly agree that there could be a completely different source or some kind of new sympathetic vibrating.

I’ve assumed that the luthier doing the setup is competent, however, if the action height and fret slot depth are not properly set then they could cause the issues you are describing as well. For instance, nut slot too shallow so the string height over the frets at the nut is too high and if the string action were measured without a capo at the first fret then this excess nut height comes up as an error in the string action, so the action could measure quite a lot higher than it actually is when depressed. I’m not saying this is what it is, but it can also cause these problems. If the luthier did setup on the other strings as well and there’s no issue at all with those, then I’d doubt this is the issue.

 

[Bassinga]

See my bold text items, above.

I’m struggling to visualize the geometry of this problem…

Buzzing only occurs on the lowest string. Action is too high on all the strings in the first position, and pretty low at the 12th. Assuming that the neck is straight and everything is adjusted correctly, then these symptoms are contradictory.

Taken together, they would normally suggest one or more of the following: the neck had a twist, a fret or frets were lifted near the nut under the fifth string, there was a localized hump in the fingerboard, or the nut and/or saddle for that string were set too low.

As others have pointed out, wood can move around, even with hand-selected lumber and a 5-piece laminated neck. But when it does, that movement can be quickly detected via a quick inspection with a ruler and a set of feeler gauges.

But you and your tech seem to agree that the answer is “none of the above”.

Are you sure that the buzz is really fret rattle?

I became the guitar tech for our family business around 1970, and I’ve heard more than my share of weird noises.

Unless there’s some other obvious issue, like you’re whacking the heck out of just the one string, or trying to de-tune it down to the A an octave below drop-A tuning, I’d be looking for unwanted resonances.

For example, when people accidentally break a truss rod, it can rattle around inside the neck and cause a pitch-dependent buzz that’s hard to isolate. Ditto for a bad string, cracks in the neck or headstock, or loose components in the electronics cavity/bridge/tuners (unlikely in this case, since those are generally pretty easy to identify).

Regardless, it’s unlikely that a trip across the pond will be necessary- I imagine that Dingwall has relationships with knowledgeable, experienced techs like Mo in other countries…

Thanks for the response, I'll clarify some information which I didn't mention in my original post.

1) The string height at the first 1-5 frets is only uncomfortably high on the B string. The rest of the strings are low and comfortable (which indicates that the nut slot might be the problem). But the string seems to be sitting flush in the nut slot and the height was checked by my luthier and he said it's normal.

2) Since I bought this bass used, when I bought it. I noticed that the relief was higher on the B string than it was on the G string. I emailed Dingwall about this worried that it might be twisted neck but they confirmed that it is common and nothing to worry about. See image below.

3) My luthier didn't mention anything about a localized hump in the fingerboard and he mentioned that the frets are level.

It 100% sure it is fret rattle, and I'm tuning to the right pitch. This has confused me as much as it has confused you unfortunately.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Bassinga]

I’d certainly agree that there could be a completely different source or some kind of new sympathetic vibrating.

I’ve assumed that the luthier doing the setup is competent, however, if the action height and fret slot depth are not properly set then they could cause the issues you are describing as well. For instance, nut slot too shallow so the string height over the frets at the nut is too high and if the string action were measured without a capo at the first fret then this excess nut height comes up as an error in the string action, so the action could measure quite a lot higher than it actually is when depressed. I’m not saying this is what it is, but it can also cause these problems. If the luthier did setup on the other strings as well and there’s no issue at all with those, then I’d doubt this is the issue.

The other strings are behaving completely normally. Normal action at the first 5 frets and normal action at the nut with minimal fret buzzing. The problem is isolated to the B string.

 

[AB Nate]

Thanks for the response, I'll clarify some information which I didn't mention in my original post.

1) The string height at the first 1-5 frets is only uncomfortably high on the B string. The rest of the strings are low and comfortable (which indicates that the nut slot might be the problem). But the string seems to be sitting flush in the nut slot and the height was checked by my luthier and he said it's normal.

2) Since I bought this bass used, when I bought it. I noticed that the relief was higher on the B string than it was on the G string. I emailed Dingwall about this worried that it might be twisted neck but they confirmed that it is common and nothing to worry about. See image below.
View attachment 7061665

3) My luthier didn't mention anything about a localized hump in the fingerboard and he mentioned that the frets are level.

It 100% sure it is fret rattle, and I'm tuning to the right pitch. This has confused me as much as it has confused you unfortunately.

Thanks for the input!

Just as a quick test perhaps you can install a shim in the nut slot on the B string? A bit of paper just to do a quick experiment.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

This is one where I’d love to have the bass in hand instead of guessing via keyboard. A lot of good insight already. I’ll just wish you luck and not in the snarky way of wishing luck.