DNA Owners Group

[jmcgliss]

Put her through a 4-1/2 hour show last night on an open air outdoor stage. Amp preformed wonderfully. I still need a bit of tweaking, but it just is sounding great. I am sorry, I don't really understand bringing up the gain high and the Master Volume up until I get a stage volume. I get distortion. Everything I always new about amps is bring up the gain high and the master low and you get distortion/growl as most call it now. I want super clean, very definable tone, so I keep the gain at about 3 or so and the master is at about 5 (Half way). Beautiful clean clear tone with great volume. Shape is at about 7-1/2 and is killing that mid section! Still a little clicky, but since the action on my bass is super super low, that explains a bit of that, which is where the tweaking will come in

I do not have a manual nearby but David's Set Level Light (green) should blink strongly as you play, signifying a healthy signal to noise ratio. You would have to raise the gain much higher than that to enter distortion (assuming downstream controls are not extreme). Knowing this will help if situations arise where you need more power.

I'm not quite sure about your Shape setting (7.5 out of 10 max?) which is higher than what many of use except in *low volume* situations. It scoops the mids which helps with slap tone but sometimes you need those mids back to cut. These are just guidelines and obviously you are free to let your ears guide you.

 

[iriegnome]

Totally understand that. When I was playing, that green light was strong and pretty constant. Yes I mean 7-1/2 of 10 or about 3 O'Clock on the dial and my EQ is set almost completely flat except a bit of High Mid Boost. My Modulus must have a pretty high output. On stage outdoors in front of a thousand people, full rack of line arrays for FOH and I had to bring my volume on stage down!! LOVE IT!! That to me is almost the best compliment I could get. Especially since my gain was on 3 and my master was on 5!! LOVE IT.. Really!!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

First and foremost, this in not a guitar amplifier and it is not a GK amp. The design of the gain and power structures are much different than what you have used before. The trick to getting a great sound is to use the gain-set light to set up the gain so you are sending the cleanest, hottest signal to the power section to be amplified. That will give you the best clarity and best signal to noise ratio. If you send a low gain signal, the power section will run harder to produce less sound and it will not be as clear because the signal to noise ratio will suffer from the far less than optimal signal. Please give the following a try. You can always go back to the way you're doing it now if you don't like it. I just think you haven't heard what this amp can do yet.

1. Turn off the compressor and the shape (all the way to the left) and set all EQ controls to flat
2. Turn master off or at least down very low
3. Turn the gain up to 10 o'clock to start with and start playing your loudest and lowest notes
4. If gain-set light is not blinking, turn gain up a little more. Continue turning gain up slowly until you reach the point where that gain-set light is dancing (blinking a LOT) on your lowest/loudest notes.
5. If gain light is staying on, turn gain down until it dances.
6. At this point, start turning up the master. You are now sending it the hottest, cleanest signal to work its magic on. If you hear some distortion, turn the gain down one click at a time until it's gone. Usually 2 clicks is the most it takes to clean it up.

After setting the gains like that, leave the shape turned off and start playing with the EQ's, again moving slowly as the EQ controls can cut/boost 16 db which is much more than most EQ controls. The mids are what give you presence in the mix. The low mids add the thump in your chest and the high mids will give you the clarity and edge. So pay special attention to what those two can do for you. You will easily hear the difference in sound with a two-click change. If everything sounds a bit boomy or muddy, drop a couple of clicks off the bass EQ. If you have too much string and fret noise, drop the treble a click or two. After you have dialed in the sound you like, then look back at the gain-set light. If it is no longer coming on with your lowest/loudest notes, turn it up one or two clicks at a time until it dances again. If it is staying on, then you need to drop the gain down until it dances again (one or two clicks less than that if needed).

At this point, you should be dialed in pretty well and bringing up the master to 4 o'clock or so should give you lots of volume. Bring it up higher if needed you will reach the point of diminishing returns somewhere around 5:30 or 6 o'clock unless you have a slew of stompboxes hooked up.

Now let's go back to the shape control. The shape control boosts the bass and the treble and cuts the mids. The higher you turn it, more it scoops out the mids so all you have is bass and treble. This can sound fine when playing by yourself at home-practice volumes or when playing a solo with just drums background (or no background), but you won't be heard in the midst of a band if you turn this rascal up above about 9 o'clock. It's also easy to set the shape control to what you want to hear for practice or solos and turn it on or off with the footswitch. If you're playing slap, you can turn the shape up more, even up to 12, but beyond that even slap sounds crappy.

It's a good idea to mess with the compressor when playing slap so you can get just the right amount of attack and sustain out of the slap. The compressor light will light up when the compressor is engaging. If you need more compression, turn down the threshold or increase the gain a bit. You can increase the gain a bit at this point if you like because the compressor is going to stomp on that signal before it sends it to the power section.

Finally be aware that what you hear standing next to your amp is not what your audience hears. It takes about 20 to 30 feet for the bass notes to really blossom. So get as far away from your amp as your cord will let you to get an idea of what you sound like out in the crowd. If you have a wireless, go out 30-feet or more from your amp. I learned this the hard way by having people about 25 to 30-feet out put their hands over their ears while my stage volume sounded fine. I had one of my bandmates play bass while I walked away from the stage and sure enough between 20 and 30-feet out there was a huge increase in volume and low end. The lower the notes the farther they have to travel to blossom. Sometimes the stage setting sounds like crap while it sounds great to the audience.

Please give this a shot and see what you think. You can always revert to what you are already doing.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Totally understand that. When I was playing, that green light was strong and pretty constant. Yes I mean 7-1/2 of 10 or about 3 O'Clock on the dial and my EQ is set almost completely flat except a bit of High Mid Boost. My Modulus must have a pretty high output. On stage outdoors in front of a thousand people, full rack of line arrays for FOH and I had to bring my volume on stage down!! LOVE IT!! That to me is almost the best compliment I could get. Especially since my gain was on 3 and my master was on 5!! LOVE IT.. Really!!

Sorry just saw this bit after I wrote that long diatribe. If your modulus is maxing the gain-set light at 9 o'clock (#3), then push in the pad button just to the left of the DI control on the front of the amp. That will cut 12db from the signal and allow you to run the gain up somewhere between 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock, which is where it likes to live.

Don't you just love it when they ask you to turn down?

Dan

 

[iriegnome]

I am usually the quietest guy on stage so it was pretty nice to be asked to turn down!! That hasn't happened for a long while. I will give steps 1 thru 2030 a try, but I am really liking how the amp is sounding right now. It can sound better I am sure, but I have only put 7 hours on it. It took me years to dial in fully my tone to fit in with 3 guitar players and 2 drummers.. I have a couple of weeks off I think, so I will get to dial it in a bit more. I would love to find a session sheet so I can mark what I have going and go back if needed. That way I can completely redo everything and go back again without any worry. But I will most certainly give it a whirl. Best thing is I can always bring it back to where I had it.

 

[iriegnome]

Here are my current settings that I made through the weekend wonderfully.. I actually think that the compressor is muted also

 

[iriegnome]

 

[jmcgliss]

Experimenting is good, since live settings can vary. And it's good to know your Modulus may have a hot output. My Lakland 55-02CS is that way.

Dan has posted his detailed set-up steps many times on this forum and also the Eden forum, so rest assured we're not bagging on you. One sign that your Shape level *may* be scooping too much is that you are adding back some Lo Mid and Hi Mid. Because Shape also boosts the lows there is the chance that it could rob you of headroom. When you were asked to turn down it's possible they only cared that your signal had too much low end, in which case turning everything down would compromise the mid frequencies even further that you often need to hear yourself over drums and guitars. EQ and Shape are very sensitive. Hope that makes sense!

 

[jjk2007]

Well, the old Eden WT-550 has been sold. If I can get one of my basses sold soon I'll put in my order for the 1350. Ready to get on board!!

 

[iriegnome]

Ok. I will ask the question, but I hate to open this can of worms... How different or alike are Eden and DNA? I have never owned a Eden head, but I did have an Eden combo and I hated it. Rattled the box completely apart and returned in.. Terrible experience. However I realize there are plenty of fans. I have played through the WT-500 and WT-800 and Navigator, but they weren't mine. Let's have it without derailing this into a versus thread. I really do like my 1350 btw

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Ok. I will ask the question, but I hate to open this can of worms... How different or alike are Eden and DNA? I have never owned a Eden head, but I did have an Eden combo and I hated it. Rattled the box completely apart and returned in.. Terrible experience. However I realize there are plenty of fans. I have played through the WT-500 and WT-800 and Navigator, but they weren't mine. Let's have it without derailing this into a versus thread. I really do like my 1350 btw

Probably the best way to look at it is as a journey that David started by making PA equipment back in 1976 and shortly therafter morphed into making Bass cabs and amps. He founded Eden and developed all of their products except for their most recent ones. He did collaborate with Marshall on the small Eden combos, which are new.

So the T series cabs, the D series cabs (both XLT and XST), the E-series cabs (both the current and the old cloth covered grill ones made for the E300T tube amp), the Nemesis series cabs, etc. are all David's designs. Same with the WT300, WT400, WT330, WT390, WT405, WT550, WT500, WT600, WT800, WTB1000, Navigator pre-amp, etc. He also had a lot of combos including the most famous workhorse the Metro as well as the CC series, and the Silver Series (budget entry). All of the stuff that Eden sold over the years from the 70's until he left Eden 5 years ago are his designs. The best of those are still being sold by Eden. He did not design the new WTP900 and WTP600 although they are using his WT800 and WT550 design as the basis for each, with some additional functionality and of course cosmetic changes.

DNA amps and cabs are the point on the road where he is now and I would call it an evolutionary step, possibly a revolutionary one. As far as sound goes, the cabs have a hi-fi sound similar to the XST but with even better clarity, higher power handling, and a wider frequency response. They do not have the mid-hump of the XLT's, but you can easily boost the mids to get that sound from them and still have the extended lower range. No one has ever done what he has done with speakers and cabs for DNA and he has a patent on his Class D power amplification designs (DNA1350 uses this patented power section). Right now, the DNA gear (in my opinion) is the best there is.

Sorry to hear of the problem you had with your first Eden gear. What was the one that fell apart on you?

Dan

 

[iriegnome]

No worries. With high end gear in my area, I have to buy to try. The cabinet came apart. I don't really know. It was wobbly when I returned it. Probably my luck with a bad one. Not the first time that happened, nor the last. Anyway, I do like the 1350 thus far. It has delivered a huge sound and tone for days. Some tweaking and I should be set for a long time with it.

 

[jmcgliss]

I look at this way. David would not have launched DNA unless he had ideas that would be a leap forward. He is not interested in just filling shelves with more of the same stuff that's out there. The shorthand version of the story is when we tested the DNA prototypes, one of the DNA cabs was enough to blow away two of the Eden cabinets in power handling and quality of tone. This was later born out in early demo events where some of Chicago's most aggressive thumpers tried them out. Cats that were using two 410s were convinced that one DNA 410 would do the job. A pair of DNS112's was mind blowing for everyone. The 1350 also benefit's from David finding components to deliver high power with super quiet operation and tone that can be both nuanced and powerful. Some players still swear by amps with iron transformers vs. Class D, but I believe the 1350 to be a breakaway design from other Class D amps running generic power supplies.

 

[jjk2007]

I look at this way. David would not have launched DNA unless he had ideas that would be a leap forward. He is not interested in just filling shelves with more of the same stuff that's out there. The shorthand version of the story is when we tested the DNA prototypes, one of the DNA cabs was enough to blow away two of the Eden cabinets in power handling and quality of tone. This was later born out in early demo events where some of Chicago's most aggressive thumpers tried them out. Cats that were using two 410s were convinced that one DNA 410 would do the job. A pair of DNS112's was mind blowing for everyone. The 1350 also benefit's from David finding components to deliver high power with super quiet operation and tone that can be both nuanced and powerful. Some players still swear by amps with iron transformers vs. Class D, but I believe the 1350 to be a breakaway design from other Class D amps running generic power supplies.

David and I talked about the cab thing in one of our conversations. With all the advances in technology he was just able to take advantage of it and build a better cab. I should be able to use 1 2X10 cab and replace the 4X10 I've been using. I will be ordering my 1350 in about a week and will get it just in time to take to the gig and put it through its paces! I'll put in the order for the 2X10 in a few more weeks and then be set.

 

[iriegnome]

I just wish I could get out of the cabs what everyone here is talking about. I played the DNS-112 and I just did not hear what has been talked about. The 1350 puts out a ton of watts. The 112 only handles 450w. Even with 2x112's, they do not put out enough to handle the amp. I think that is my fundamental problem is with the 1350, I need a pair of cabinets I can play a 60,000 person arena, but in a 110 capacity bar.. I need 115Db out of a cabinet. I know I will get a ton of flack for that one, but that is what my band puts out. Just about 115Db on stage.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I just wish I could get out of the cabs what everyone here is talking about. I played the DNS-112 and I just did not hear what has been talked about. The 1350 puts out a ton of watts. The 112 only handles 450w. Even with 2x112's, they do not put out enough to handle the amp. I think that is my fundamental problem is with the 1350, I need a pair of cabinets I can play a 60,000 person arena, but in a 110 capacity bar.. I need 115Db out of a cabinet. I know I will get a ton of flack for that one, but that is what my band puts out. Just about 115Db on stage.

My DNS410 will do that and I'm only pushing 800 watts through it. Theoretically, my 800 watts will push it to 130db. It's considerably heavier than the DNS210, but no question it has the guts. Be aware that it takes about 30 hours of playing music through them before the cabs break in and give all that they have to give. A common way to facilitate that is to hook up an mp3 player to it when you're not running your bass and just play music through it. My 410 sounds great at low levels too, just heavier than a 210 to lug around. That's why I have casters on it.

Dan

 

[jmcgliss]

The DNS410, especially at 4ohms, can inflict hearing damage. Just sayin'.

 

[iriegnome]

I have been using 12's now for 11 years. Never have been a big fan of 10's, so I am not sure that a 4x10 cabinet would do it for me. Not sure thought. I would love to give one a try

 

[jjk2007]

I have been using 12's now for 11 years. Never have been a big fan of 10's, so I am not sure that a 4x10 cabinet would do it for me. Not sure thought. I would love to give one a try

I've been into 10's for about 20 years. I've used some different variations of 12's over that time but I find myself sticking with 10's. Different strokes for different folks and it's all good!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I have been using 12's now for 11 years. Never have been a big fan of 10's, so I am not sure that a 4x10 cabinet would do it for me. Not sure thought. I would love to give one a try

I honestly was skeptical of 10's to begin with. Grew up using 212's and 215's. Got a 115 after not playing for about 15-20 years and hated it. Added a 410 to it and liked the sound I could get by balancing the two through my dual-block amp. Now I have the DNA 410 and it has FAR better sound and volume compared to previous gear. You should see if you can find one to play through. I think you'd love it.

Not all 410's are created equal!

Dan