Eb Major scale starting on G?

[Mark Ambler]

Gm7b9.............G Ab Bb C D E F G

F min maj7.....F G Ab Bb C D E F = Melodic minor ascending, so Gm7b9 is the 2nd degree of the Melodic minor ascending.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

So?

If you play in Phrygian mode what chord do you want the piano player to play?

Eb

 

[MichelD]

I am enjoying how much fail this thread contains.

Let me try to simplify. Modes are different types of "scales" that you can play when you start on different notes of a specific key. So, when you play in the key of Eb, start on the tonic (Eb) and play up 7 notes, you have the Ionian mode which is commonly known as the Major scale. Starting on the second note (F) and then going up 7 notes (using the same key signature) gets you Dorian mode. It sounds pretty cool but can be weird to most musicians. The third note, going up a 7-note "scale" gets you Phrygian mode which sounds pretty *-ing weird. There are 7 modes in all: Starting from the first note in a scale you have Ionian (major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian (natural minor) and Locrian which was considered the most evil mode and sounds really *-ing weird.

I realize that without some theory knowledge this was not simplifying but hopefully it can help someone here.

This is what I have always understood from my reading of theory.

I was just as I explained earlier, trying to get the Eb scale under my fingers because it is one I rarely have to employ and found that looking at it as the C minor scale was easier for me, just because that is a shape I memorized. Then I asked what you 'd call the same scale starting on a G. That's all. I wasn't trying to start a bun fight.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Then I asked what you 'd call the same scale starting on a G. That's all. I wasn't trying to start a bun fight.

And the answer is still G phrygian.

 

[gfh218]

If you take the Eb major scale (three flats) but start on the G (third note in Eb major scale) what would you call that scale?

Some kind of Gm7 ?

Phrygian

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

This is what I have always understood from my reading of theory.

I was just as I explained earlier, trying to get the Eb scale under my fingers because it is one I rarely have to employ and found that looking at it as the C minor scale was easier for me, just because that is a shape I memorized. Then I asked what you 'd call the same scale starting on a G. That's all. I wasn't trying to start a bun fight.

Understood. Yes, relative (same key signature) majors and minors are a great gateway to chord shapes. However, the same interval going the "wrong" way can get more than a bit strange.

 

[aprod]

Any decent chordplayer would avoid to add the b9 as a chord tone when he/she plays a minor 7th chord (here: avoid the Ab as a chord tone when he/she plays a Gmi7 in Eb) (and in all common situations. Finale/Sibelius/iReal don't even have a chord symbol for it, and I have never seen it in writing (and I have played a lot of written music)). That doesn't mean you can't use it in a melody or improvisation, of course.[/QUOTE
You lack experience and knowledge. Please don't give advice.

 

[SLO Surfer]

If you play in Phrygian mode what chord do you want the piano player to play?

Chords?! We're bass players. We don't need no stinking chords!!!

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

@aprod Feel free to give an example.

 

[SteveCS]

Yep, that's the 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale also known as 'Phrygian Dominant'.

And nothing to do with the Phrygian Mode, asked about, or at least implied, in the original question, with the minor 3rd from G to Bb. Sometimes these threads are a masterclass in obfuscation and smoke-blowing...

 

[Mark Ambler]

And nothing to do with the Phrygian Mode, asked about, or at least implied, in the original question, with the minor 3rd from G to Bb. Sometimes these threads are a masterclass in obfuscation and smoke-blowing...

Well I was just answering a question that was 'Phrygian' related Sorry if I've made a misdemeanour.

 

[bassbrad]

Eb/G

 

[HolmeBass]

To continue the automotive analogies: If you get on Route 95 at exit 3, which highway are you driving on? Some of the posters in this thread would have you believe you're driving on 95 + 3 = Route 98.

The simplest, least confusing answer to your question is that the Eb Major scale starting from G can perfectly well still be called Eb Major. You don't need "modes" to play songs like "Mary Had a Little Lamb," which starts on the 3rd of the major scale, or "Happy Birthday," which starts on the 5th.

Ageed, but OP was pretty specific, and the answer to their question is G Phrygian. What and when and where you actually use it is a question of much greater scope, a worthwhile discussion, but OP's question was nice and specific.

If you take the Eb major scale (three flats) but start on the G (third note in Eb major scale) what would you call that scale?

Some kind of Gm7 ?

The answer to "what would you call that scale?" seems to be succinctly and precisely "G Phrygian".

 

[SteveCS]

Well I was just answering a question that was 'Phrygian' related Sorry if I've made a misdemeanour.

My apologies Mark, you were just correctly explaining the initial "guess what - actually phrygian mode can have a major 3rd" derail... My gripe, if any, is that if people stuck to the question then clarifications such as yours would not be necessary.

 

[hintz]

And, very often, phrygian mode is played with a major 3rd: G - Ab - B - C - D - Eb - F - G. You can use a G7(b9) and also add a b13.

Ah yes, the "arabic" scale!!! This is a great bebop like substitution to a regular 5 chord! Adds a nice tension

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

And the answer is still G phrygian.

Wouldn't it be Eb phrygian? He's playing the Eb scale. He's just staring on the 3rd. It's still an Eb.

 

[Sparkl]

Feel free to show me one example of this chord in normal use. Take your time.

Every tune where the chord player decides to emphasise the phrygian mode. Especially and mostly if the song is modal from the get go.

In jazz yes, the b2 is usually avoided for it sounding bad but jazz isn't the only genre out there ya know.

Modern classical music post 1945 is also very likely to have quite a few examples of a minor7b9 in use.

 

[Sparkl]

Wouldn't it be Eb phrygian? He's playing the Eb scale. He's just staring on the 3rd. It's still an Eb.

No. Because that's not what the name "mode" implies.

Eb phrygian would be native to Cb major.

 

[Mark Ambler]

In jazz yes, the b2 is usually avoided for it sounding bad but jazz isn't the only genre out there ya know.
.

Now I know what I'm doing wrong For example, In Stella, I would use a b2 in the first chord. In fact, b2 or b9 is widely used, IMO. Maybe I've misunderstood you?

 

[morgansterne]

Matthew Shipp's piece "gesture" from his album pastoral composure is in this exact key.
Gesture
Edit: I should say this exact "mode". Although the melody uses a major third the piano is solidly in G phrygian.