OK, I'm going to try to answer this post in sections...
I am very late to this forum but I am hoping that there are still folks here willing to share their knowledge and experience with me.
I have an Eden WT800B (2006) that is my primary head. I also have an Eden Navigator ( 1998 ) that I am still dialing in with a Crown XLS1500 amp.
Until recently I had been using one or both Peavey 410TVX as the cab. At the time I thought they were decent. I had recently acquired an Eden D410XLT ( late 90s – still has the banana connectors ). The difference between the Peavey and the Eden is breathtaking. It’s like a re-EQ the amp and there is much more definition and clarity. The bottom is tighter as well and not near as boomy and muffled ( that Eden growl ).
After that revelation, I decided to acquire more Eden cabs and that has proven difficult. I had order a used D210XLT through GC and got a Eden D210T instead. I tried and it could not handle the B string. Everything else sounded fine. The speakers were Eden EC1060M. I returned it. I then though if I get newer Eden, I would get a great cab. I ordered Blemished 2019 D210XST. When it came in, I was highly disappointed. The cab sounded like I had a distortion pedal in the signal path. We pulled both speakers and they looked fine and the cones moved freely. The speakers were the “made for Eden” Eminence speakers. They were marked as XS speakers but they looked like a lessor Eminence Legend B102 ( the black cast basket looked identical ) instead of something like an Eminence CA1059 or the like.
That brings me to a bunch of questions:
1) Are the Eminence “made for Eden” speakers inferior to the Eden made speakers or did Marshall just get cheap on the speaker? What Eminence speaker should be in the newer D210XST? Should I be looking for an older XST cab with the old Eden EC1060XS speakers in it?
The speakers that were/are used for the XLT and the XST cabs are made by Eminence specifically to match the Eden in-house speakers. I think it was around 2008 that move was made. David Nordschow (founder of Eden) was still with them and since he designed those speakers, he had final say on whether or not they got it right. It took Eminence multiple tries to get it, but they nailed it. They got exactly the same sound and performance metrics out of them.
We had a lot of trepidation in the Eden Forum at the time about whether or not these were inferior speakers and if they should try to source the old ones that were made in Minnesota before they all dried up. Answer was no on both counts. Over the next number of years, reports from our forum members bore that out. There were even times where two new Eden by Eminence speakers were put in the same 410 cabinet with old Eden speakers and there was no difference in the sound or performance of them.
At the time, those speakers were only available to order from Eden. You couldn't buy them from Eminence. There are a number of older Eden speakers that Eden discontinued though and I believe Eminence has some good substitutes for them, but you need to physically get someone on the phone from Eminence to get the info. But the Eden by Eminence speakers were definitely not off-the-shelf-speakers from Eminence. The speaker numbers stayed the same as the originals when Eminence took over manufacture. It wasn't until Marshall bought Eden that speaker numbers changed. The catalog in 2013 had new speaker numbers.Reputedly the speakers were still the same, just numbers changed to fit in with Marshall's way of cataloguing things.
Some of the speakers that were discontinued were the XLT models. The XLT cabs have a built-in low mid hump that sounds really good in the mix, and they have a great low end. David was surprised after he designed the XST speakers that folks continued to buy the XLT more often than the XST cabs. The XST cabs have higher power handling, noticeable lower and tighter bottom end, and a flat frequency response. They also gave up a couple of decibels in sensitivity - D410XLT had SPL of 106db@1W/1M and the D410XST has an SPL of 104db@1W/1M. The only XLT cabs that Eden (by Marshall) has now are the D210XLT and the D115XLT. The good news is you can approximate the low mid hump the XLT's had by dialing in a little boost around 250 Hz.
2) Are the older EC2700 gold cast bell tweeter with the weld and the red diaphragm cover superior to the newer gold cast bell with no weld and a black diaphragm cover? The newer tweeter looks more like the tweeter in the Peavey cabs and it’s not very good. I think the older EC2700 tweeter with the red diaphragm cover sounds much better.
I checked back in some of my catalogs from 1997 through 2010-11 the tweeters were all that EC2700 tweeter. In 2012 that didn't print that speaker info in the catalog. In 2013 they published new numbers for the speakers and didn't specify the tweeter. I do remember though that back around 2008 or 2009 (maybe earlier) there was a change in the diaphragm because the old one was no longer being manufactured. Your best bet for more info on that would be to PM Armin (bassmann1968) here on TB. He is intimately familiar with what was used and what the best replacement turned out to be. He's an electronics guru!
3) I noticed that the old D210T and the new D210XST cabs were the same size. The baffling even looks the same. If I were to install Eden EC1060XS ( or something similar like an Eminence CA1059 )speakers in the D210T, would I have the equivalent of a D210XST cab?
No. The D210T used EC1060F speakers. The XST used EC1060XS speakers. The D210T handles 250-watts and the D210XST handles 450-watts so those are rather drastically different speakers. Although he never published them, I'm sure the Thiele-Small parameters are much different between them. The D210T frequency response was 62Hz to 14KHz. The D210XST is 30Hz to 14KHz. So drastically different designed speakers and I doubt that would work.
The cab design is also different on them. The XLT's came after the T's and the XST's came after they XLT's. The T cabinets had a round port in the back and the XLT's had two shelf ports in front, one on top of the speakers and one below. The XST's have just one shelf port under the speakers. They use different speakers and they have different internal dimensions. Remember that the XLT's have that low-mid hump and neither of the other two do. Also, both the D210XLT has higher power handling than the D210T (350-watts vs 250 watts) and the D210XST has higher power handling than the XLT's (450-watts vs 350-watts).
You will rarely get a good result swapping out speakers without knowing the Thiele-Small specs of what was the OEM. You can put a higher wattage handling speaker into a cabinet that is not designed for it and actually blow that speaker at far below it's wattage rating. Remember speaker handling is both how much power it can handle and what its XMAX (maximum extension) rating is. If the speaker moves too easily in a cab, it can crease and even tear the speaker well below its rated power handling.
4) When looking at an Eden EC1060xl speaker and an Eden EC1060XS speaker, they look identical. At least the basket and the magnet look the same. Is there a difference in the width of the magnet gap or the depth of the travel in the magnet different between the two? Or is the only difference in the coil and perhaps the spider and cone?
I couldn't tell you, but again, you may be able to get that info from Armin (bassmann1968 on TB). He might know but I don't and I really can't promise that he does. I can tell you that appearances aren't everything. but further than that, a lot of the specific info about speaker designs and particulars are well guarded secrets.
5) If the only difference between the Eden EC1060xl and the EC1060xs is the coil and such, if I were to have the speaker reconed with a kit that was meant for an XS style speaker, would I have an EC1060xs speaker at that point?
Uhhhhh....maybe? If an XST recone can be done on that frame, perhaps. And once again, I'm going to tell you to PM Armin to see if he knows off the top of his head. He has a mountain of Eden cabs and amps and I imagine he's probably re-coned a few speakers himself.
6) Has anyone had any experience with shops that recone speakers ( such as Simply Speakers or Speaker Exchange – both online ). If so, what was your experience? Did the speakers you had reconed sound as good as they did before?
Back when the forum was still open there were a number of folks that had re-coning done by a few different shops and they swore the re-cones were as good as they ever were. But I don't have those records. Marshall deleted all that archived info when they closed the forum.
Based on my limited experience with the 2019 Eden D210XST, I am of the opinion that Marshall has cost cut the parts used to where the newer cabs are not as good as the old. I am thinking that I would rather find older Eden cabs, even if they needed fixing, since they are using better quality parts ( such as the wonderful Eden handles are now gone and a cheaper type is being used ). I am still looking for a solid D210XLT and D210XST. I have even eyeballed some used D212XST and D115XLT cabs. Any insight from Eden owners is appreciates.
I don't think that's the case, at least as far as the cabinet designs and speaker designs go. The speakers are still manufactured to Eden's original specs at Eminence and then sent across the pond to Marshall's cabinet shop to be built out there. I would expect some minor changes and it sounds like the handles are one of them because they probably already use that handle on Marshall cabs...it IS the same shop that makes both Marshall and Eden Cabs.
But honestly, Marshall has never had much luck with bass amps and cabs. Yeah there are some exceptional examples out there but they didn't have anywhere the reputation or market acceptance with their bass gear as they did with their guitar amps and cabs. And honestly the design of those two things are pretty much diametrically opposed. They paid USM a good chunk for Eden, which was already well-established, and they gave it better distribution because now anyone who sells Marshall, can also sell Eden. Not a big deal in the US but a big deal world wide. So I'd be surprised if they went on a cost-cutting spree with the bread and butter of their Bass amp and cab manufacturing.
Regarding the D212XST and the D115XLT they are both good cabs. The D115XLT has that low mid hump and although it has a bit more of the old school sound that you get with 15" cabs, it has pretty quick transients so you get good definition out of it. The D212XST is a bit different than the D212XLT, which was quite a nice cab. The D212XST definitely has a lower and tighter bottom end and has higher power handling. For the best sound out of it I'd suggest adding a little boost in the low mids at 250Hz. If you can't add a little boost there, anywhere between 250Hz and 500Hz will work, I just think the slight boost at 250Hz sounds the best. If you boost it too much your sound will honk at you, so if you hear it honk - back it off. I typically run my boost just above 1 o'clock at 250Hz.
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All right, now that I've given you all that information, I'm going to give you some more. First of all, I need to let you know that I am an Endorsing Artist for DNA. DNA is David Nordschow amplification. After he sold Eden in 2008, he stayed there for another year and then left in 2009. But he didn't stop designing amps and cabs then. In 2010 he came out with his first cabs and later followed it up with a 1350-watt Class D amp weighing all of 7-lbs with all the whistles and bells including adjustable compressor and side-chain effects besides the normal effects loop.
In my opinion, his DNA cabs are the next step up from his XST cabs that he designed at Eden. I bought his WT500/800 amp (upgraded to 800-watts bridged) from him after he left Eden and before he brought his new DNA1350 to market. I love that amp. It doesn't have the bi-amp circuitry that your WT800b does and it only goes down to 4 ohms per channel and 8 ohms bridged, but man it is a great sounding and crazy versatile amp. My power upgrade was basically to the older WT800A power supply.
Then in 2015, I managed to scrape together $1000 for his DNS410 cab (DNS for David Norschow Speakers). Amazing cab! Very flat frequency response so I boost my low mids a bit (I use a passive Fender Jazz) and I can play anywhere. It handles 1400-watts, but the highest I can ever turn up my master on my 800-watt Eden amp at outdoor festivals is a tiny fraction above 10 o'clock. I've tried to turn it up to 10:30 at festivals a couple of times and I always get told to turn it down. So I'll never need to haul around an 810! Indoors, 9:30 is the highest I can turn it to.
The point is I don't need any other cabs now that I have this one. Plus, it's clearer and more articulate than anything I've ever heard or played through. They are like the next step above his XST designs.
However, I did end up getting a DNS-210 just last year because my 410 scared the owners of small venues to the point they made me use their usually crappy backline. Luckily, I applied for and was accepted into the DNA Endorsing Artist group and a got a decent discount on the cab. Nobody thinks twice about a bassist bringing in a 210.
It wasn't free, and it wasn't as low as dealer price, but it was still a good deal for me. I had already saved up some $$ for it but was able to buy it about 3 gigs earlier than I expected. So I got that and actually now use that DNS-210 for all my indoor venues. It can handle up to 700-watt rms and has a maximum SPL of 134db, which our 800-watt amps could drive it to, and I found out the first time I gigged it that I didn't need anything else indoors. For outdoors and outdoor festivals, I pull out my DNS-410
I like to say if you are buying used, look for an Eden because they are great amps and cabs and used you can get good prices on them. But, if you're buying new. get the DNA gear. It's better than the current Eden gear and, since Eden is now building the cabs in the UK, it's less expensive than the Eden gear is new. But it's been 10 years now since David came out with his First DNA gear and you can sometimes find it used. So if you find it used at a good price...go for it!
Below is my set-up although I've never used both cabs at once. it's always one or the other. Some day I'll have to do that just to say I did. Notice the logo on the newer 2019 DNS-210 cab is gold, black, and silver while my 2015 DNS-410has the older logo which is just silver and black:
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