Fender Rumble Club

[G-Dog]

I just noticed the 500c V3 only has 1/4" out for extension speaker...sheesh

One of the better things about Rumbles. (I [strongly dislike] Speakons-or whatever they're called)

It's my understanding that SpeakOn connectors are required for higher powered amps and cabs. That's why the Rumble 500 has only ¼" connections and the Rumble 800 HD has SpeakOns (combicons, actually, that also accept ¼" plugs for low volume playing).
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[GonePlaid]

It's my understanding that SpeakOn connectors are required for higher powered amps and cabs. That's why the Rumble 500 has only ¼" connections and the Rumble 800 HD has SpeakOns (combicons, actually, that also accept ¼" plugs for low volume playing).
.

OK. Everything else that I own/use is 1/4".

 

[G-Dog]

OK. Everything else that I own/use is 1/4".

So, that Kasino only looks like it's 1,000 watts, or more?

No gigs this weekend(one 86'ed-COVID). Rumbles get a rest. Might fire up "the practice amp".

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[BobDeRosa]

I use a small darkglass harmonic booster for EQ/boost, as a handy foot stomp. Doesn't overcolour the Rumble too much, great for extra punch/snap in the mids.

Recently, dipped a toe into bass effects world..... With the Boss GT-1B. Enjoy some of the pre-amps (dare I say including the A***gs?!) and flexibility of building/storing patches. Bit of a sweat getting to grips with usability & software, but now at the fun stage of discovery.....

But, always time for the unadulterated, unmatched, unsurpassed.... RRRRUMBLE!!!!!

I use a Fishman Platinum Stage for upright, primarily because it has a 3-position HPF that really cleans up the sound through the Rumble 100. For EBG, no preamp -- I plug straight in to the Rumble 100 and 500.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

One of the better things about Rumbles. (I [strongly dislike] Speakons-or whatever they're called)

Why is that?

 

[Jughead6]

I use a Fishman Platinum Stage for upright, primarily because it has a 3-position HPF that really cleans up the sound through the Rumble 100. For EBG, no preamp -- I plug straight in to the Rumble 100 and 500.

I use a Fishman Platinum Stage as a separate channel input on my small pedalboard. I use it for my acoustic and semi-acoustic basses, which are prone to feedback. Great little box - love it.

 

[GonePlaid]

Why is that?

'Cos I'm old(school). All of my crap is 1/4". It would cost a fortune I don't have to replace all my PA gear, mixers, amps, etc. We may be gigging a fair amount but we ain't gettin' paid a fair amount.

 

[LennyJ]

It's my understanding that SpeakOn connectors are required for higher powered amps and cabs. That's why the Rumble 500 has only ¼" connections and the Rumble 800 HD has SpeakOns (combicons, actually, that also accept ¼" plugs for low volume playing).
.

G-Dog, I am not sure. I used to have one of those Fender 1200 amps and I am sure it had 1/4's.

I think one of the reasons for the fade "speakon" is that they lock in place.

The Speakon's are plastic and cheaper than a good quality 1/4 connector anyway. I am pretty sure if they are in newer amps - it is based on the cost not quality.

I have been told by many that the speakon is better - but nobody has proved that to me sofar. But I can use both and have no issues with them both and think they both are good.

Just my 2 cents on the topic.

Lennyj

 

[68Tele-Bass]

@GonePlaid - Hockey Night in Calgary tonight- look what I saw behind the bench

Now that’s Old School!!

 

[GonePlaid]

@GonePlaid - Hockey Night in Calgary tonight- look what I saw behind the bench

View attachment 4635078

Now that’s Old School!!

I assume(I know)you know there's a hockey thread on TB:"NHL Season 2021-2022."

 

[Miles_ONeal]

'Cos I'm old(school). All of my crap is 1/4". It would cost a fortune I don't have to replace all my PA gear, mixers, amps, etc. We may be gigging a fair amount but we ain't gettin' paid a fair amount.

Gotcha. I thought you meant you had a problem with the way they were designed or something. Yeah, I hate when they change standards. Speakons really are better connectors:

1. Handle higher current
2. More secure connection
3. No danger of shorting (a shorted output can kill an SS amp that doesn't have protection circuitry)
4. Contacts are mostly self-cleaning

There's more, but those are enough that if I buy PA gear or higher powered amp/cab, I'll go with those. Many sockets actually allow Speakon or 1/4" cables.

 

[5StringBlues]

I also remember troy from such self help videos as SMOKE YOURSELF THIN and GET CONFIDENT,STUPID!

He doesn't need to introduce himself! I remember him from such films as "Today We Kill, Tomorrow We Die" and "Gladys the Groovy Mule."

 

[GregT]

Gotcha. I thought you meant you had a problem with the way they were designed or something. Yeah, I hate when they change standards. Speakons really are better connectors:

1. Handle higher current
2. More secure connection
3. No danger of shorting (a shorted output can kill an SS amp that doesn't have protection circuitry)
4. Contacts are mostly self-cleaning

There's more, but those are enough that if I buy PA gear or higher powered amp/cab, I'll go with those. Many sockets actually allow Speakon or 1/4" cables.

Also the contact area is larger with Speakons. It's can be a lot of power going through a tiny area with 1/4 inch plugs. The only Speakon I have is on my Bose B2 subwoofer. 1/4 inch plugs work for everything else I do. For old school, nothing had the solid connection of the old banana plugs!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Also the contact area is larger with Speakons. It's can be a lot of power going through a tiny area with 1/4 inch plugs. The only Speakon I have is on my Bose B2 subwoofer. 1/4 inch plugs work for everything else I do. For old school, nothing had the solid connection of the old banana plugs!

The higher power is a corollary of higher current.
And yes on banana plugs, though they were more prone to shorting.

 

[GregT]

It's can be a lot of power going through a tiny area with 1/4 inch plugs.

It's can! It's really can!

 

[G-Dog]

G-Dog, I am not sure. I used to have one of those Fender 1200 amps and I am sure it had 1/4's.

I think one of the reasons for the fade "speakon" is that they lock in place.

The Speakon's are plastic and cheaper than a good quality 1/4 connector anyway. I am pretty sure if they are in newer amps - it is based on the cost not quality.

I have been told by many that the speakon is better - but nobody has proved that to me sofar. But I can use both and have no issues with them both and think they both are good.

Just my 2 cents on the topic.

Lennyj

Gotcha. I thought you meant you had a problem with the way they were designed or something. Yeah, I hate when they change standards. Speakons really are better connectors:

1. Handle higher current
2. More secure connection
3. No danger of shorting (a shorted output can kill an SS amp that doesn't have protection circuitry)
4. Contacts are mostly self-cleaning

There's more, but those are enough that if I buy PA gear or higher powered amp/cab, I'll go with those. Many sockets actually allow Speakon or 1/4" cables.

Also the contact area is larger with Speakons. It's can be a lot of power going through a tiny area with 1/4 inch plugs. The only Speakon I have is on my Bose B2 subwoofer. 1/4 inch plugs work for everything else I do. For old school, nothing had the solid connection of the old banana plugs!

The higher power is a corollary of higher current.
And yes on banana plugs, though they were more prone to shorting.

And there are the increasingly stringent international safety regulations! Read and heed the words of an authority:

For those building higher powered amps for the international market, SpeakOn is by far the most universal choice for . It's also short circuit proof and locking which reduces the chance of failure when a 1/4" speaker plug gets pulled out, this is of additional concern to companies that offer long warranties.

There's also the issue of the tip or sleeve of a 1/4" plug accidentally contacting any grounded object, since neither the tip or sleeve are at ground potential in a bridged topology amp (most class D amps are internally bridged) and this could damage the amp. Also, on the higher powered amps, you can get a good jolt when holding the plug when there's a signal present. I have designed amps that swing over 150 volts peak which most folks would find very objectionable.

Then there's the current... at 2 ohms especially, it's not uncommon to find peak currents (at least in the amps I have designed) of 25 amps. This is enough current to exceed the allowable current density at a 1/4" connector. This comes up in safety compliance because this can result in heating of the contacts and arcing with the potential for fire. Not a big issue in smaller amps, but becomes significant as the power of the amp grows. This is the specific reason why I don't use the combination connectors.

If somebody won't consider an amp without SpeakOns, than there are many amps that must be crossed off their list... and the list will grow more once the new global safety regulations come into effect at the end of this year. Since I won't consider designing an amp without SpeakOns, they might as well cross the Subway line off the list and I won't be offended in the slightest.

Let's put this in better historical perspective...

The 1/4" plug was pretty much the only reasonable option back in the early days of MI audio (had nothing to do with being lazy or cheap) and in fact was plenty good for tube amps and small solid state amps for MANY years. There was no such thing as bridging, voltage swing was quite low, current was very low by today's standards, and most low powered amps were at least somewhat tolerant of momentary short circuits (especially tube amps). It took a while, but the motivation for the Speakon connector really came from European regulation rather than just being a better connector. The pro audio industry really started out migrating to the Cannon EP/AP series (which came in 2, 4, 6 & 8 pole) and while this is a superior connector in just about every way (including male and female ends, so you can't plug an amp channel into an amp channel and need no male couplers to extend), it was roughly 6 times as costly and it was larger which caused it to be abandoned when the NL-4 and NL-8 series Speakons were finally perfected. The original SpeakOns had some significant problems when introduced, (conveniently forgotten in the shallow history's mind) and in fact the NL-8's still suck to assemble. The NL series always require one end to crossover wiring of pairs whereas the EP/AP do not, and wire straight through matching the wiring color code on both ends without crossing over of conductors.

How many of you have wired an NL-8 versus an EP-8?

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[GonePlaid]

And there are the increasingly stringent international safety regulations! Read and heed the words of an authority:




.

Oh. OK. Got it. I'll immediately spend the time and MONEY to convert all of my amps, PA speakers/mixers, etc., even the Kasino, and of course, the THUNDERBIRD.


or not.

 

[G-Dog]

Oh. OK. Got it. I'll immediately spend the time and MONEY to convert all of my amps, PA speakers/mixers, etc., even the Kasino, and of course, the THUNDERBIRD. ... ... or not.

Conversion? I recommend "not". Future GAS considerations? Sure!

I considered my Bassman 500, actually intended before the R500c so pleasantly distracted me (Gee, was it really 8 years ago now? ) to be an adventure in vintage tube head looks (without the weight) and my first SpeakOn requiring amp, or so I thought. To my giddy surprise it arrived with the 7ender amp cover, the channel-changing footswitch and a short SpeakOn-to-SpeakOn cable that was perfect for my cart-before-horse year older Bassman Neo 115 cab!!!

Then one fateful day, while gazing lovingly upon my SpeakOn clad beauty, I actually read the back panel.

​

"What's this 1/4" JACK COMBO bidness?!?", says I. An' Oh, lawdy, Miss Claudie, did I whoop when I tried a 1/4" speaker cable and it worked just fine! Woo hoo!

Now. IIRC our esteemed ElderEquine says some countries require SpeakOns for as little as 400W, or so. Therefore, perhaps the SpeakOns on the Bassman 500, which can only see a maximum of 350W when used properly, are more for professional, if not vintage, good looks than actual safety, I dunno. 'Cause if truly for safety and sales 'round the world, wouldn't they also be on the Rumble 500s, as well?
.

 

[GonePlaid]

Conversion? I recommend "not". Future GAS considerations? Sure!

I considered my Bassman 500, actually intended before the R500c so pleasantly distracted me (Gee, was it really 8 years ago now? ) to be an adventure in vintage tube head looks (without the weight) and my first SpeakOn requiring amp, or so I thought. To my giddy surprise it arrived with the 7ender amp cover, the channel-changing footswitch and a short SpeakOn-to-SpeakOn cable that was perfect for my cart-before-horse year older Bassman Neo 115 cab!!!

Then one fateful day, while gazing lovingly upon my SpeakOn clad beauty, I actually read the back panel.

View attachment 4635912

View attachment 4635916
​

"What's this 1/4" JACK COMBO bidness?!?", says I. An' Oh, lawdy, Miss Claudie, did I whoop when I tried a 1/4" speaker cable and it worked just fine! Woo hoo!

Now. IIRC our esteemed ElderEquine says some countries require SpeakOns for as little as 400W, or so. Therefore, perhaps the SpeakOns on the Bassman 500, which can only see a maximum of 350W when used properly, are more for professional, if not vintage, good looks than actual safety, I dunno. 'Cause if truly for safety and sales 'round the world, wouldn't they also be on the Rumble 500s, as well?
.

Yeah, just me being facetious-or inappropriately witty.*

The likelihood of me buying any new musical [stuff] is minimal at best. Maybe a 2021 Thunderbird non-reverse so I could retire(sell?)the 1967.

*from the department of redundancy department

 

[G-Dog]

.
Hmmm. ... ... We-e-e-ell doggies! I do declare ... ... ...

As does the Bassman 800!

The Rumble 800 HD also has those SpeakOn 1/4" Jack Combos, AKA "combicon" for combination connector, on them! So, maybe it's 450W that requires the non-1/4" SpeakOns?

What y'all think?
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