Fender Rumble Club

[ValerieK]

What do you mean by “beamy”?

The amp sounds great if your ears are directly on axis with the center of the speaker, but just dull and loud (rumbly?) as soon as you move even a tiny amount - so almost no one (including me) actually hears the good sound most of the time.

I guess since guitar amps often have open backs they don't suffer as much from this, but it's really annoying on my Rumble. Now I find myself trying to learn more about speaker dispersion specs and looking at coaxial speakers. Seems the Eminence 3012cx is the real answer for a 1x12 - expensive and heavier, though...

 

[G-Dog]

... ... I use a Rumble 100 now, just had a show tonight. The downside to the 100 is that without a tweeter it's very beamy and doesn't have the detailed treble. ... ...

What do you mean by “beamy”?

The amp sounds great if your ears are directly on axis with the center of the speaker, but just dull and loud (rumbly?) as soon as you move even a tiny amount - so almost no one (including me) actually hears the good sound most of the time.

I guess since guitar amps often have open backs they don't suffer as much from this, but it's really annoying on my Rumble. ... ...

Actually, (and I'm not calling anyone "Ashley") I've always understood higher frequencies to be most susceptible to directional beaming, with lower frequencies being more omnidirectional. A very old school complaint I heard as a beginning guitarist in the early '60s about the super-clean 7ender guitar amps was their tendency to be "icepick" beamy! Nowadays, it's common for lead guitarists to use "beam blockers", or even simply turn their amp to the wall with the open back to the audience! But, certainly, bass guitar tones do contain higher frequencies, and harmonics, that add significantly to their definition.

Googling "beamy sound" gave me this AI Overview I found interesting (with my emoji-comments added):

A "beamy" sound can refer to two main concepts: a technological phenomenon in audio where sound becomes highly directional (beaming), or the use of "beaming" as a technology to direct sound. ... ...​

• In audio, "beaming" is when higher frequencies are projected in a narrow, direct "beam" rather than spreading out into the soundfield.
• This happens when the size of a speaker driver and the wavelength of the sound are similar, making the soundwaves become more directional.
• It can be seen in high-frequency drivers like tweeters, and also in multi-driver setups like a 4x12 speaker cabinet, where it starts at lower frequencies than a single large driver.
• It is sometimes described as a "shrill treble beam" off-axis, and can be addressed by physical solutions like placing foam in front of the speaker.

Hmmm, given this table of musical note wavelengths, a 12" speaker most closely matches the C#/Db-6 note at 1108.7Hz! So, in bass guitar usage, that must surely, Shirley, be an octave or harmonic to the intended fundamental note, since the G-4 (~392Hz) is the 24th fret of the usual bass G-string. So, I'd expect bass amps with tweeters to be even more "beamy", no?

All that to say that, yes indeed, it seems that high frequency "beaminess" of bass speakers can be detrimental to note definition in off-axis locations! But, I'm sure the Rumble designers were aware of this when they targeted the 7ender bass signature sound.

 

[ValerieK]

Maybe guitar amps are badly directional, too. I haven't actually used one in years - I always play guitar direct to PA/monitors anymore.

It's frustrating to feel the same need for bass, though, makes me wonder whether I should just get a PA speaker instead of an amp. The amp is cheap and looks cool though.

It's hard for me to evaluate because I don't know how much of the issue is my own fingers or my cheapo bass or just my own lack of skill at turning knobs, in addition to the amp/speaker - likely a combination of all of the above. I know that in the IEM's I have waaaaay better sound than the audience does. My bass is loud and clear in those, but a muddy mess in the audience.

 

[SharpCat]

The videos by Alex at Barefaced about their guitar cabs discuss beaming and their AVD solution several times. Kind of a V shaped reflector on the back. They don't think bass needs it.

 

[Memphis Soul]

What cabinet pairs good with the Rumble 500? Would the Fender Rumble 210 cabinet be the right fit? I don’t necessarily need it at the moment but I suspect some outdoor gigs playing classic/southern rock might could use it. For the jazz thing I want to do I know the 500 is more than what I need but I like amps.

 

[G-Dog]

What cabinet pairs good with the Rumble 500? Would the Fender Rumble 210 cabinet be the right fit? I don’t necessarily need it at the moment but I suspect some outdoor gigs playing classic/southern rock might could use it. For the jazz thing I want to do I know the 500 is more than what I need but I like amps.

LOTS of 8 ohm, 250 watts minimum cabs will pairwell with the R500c, some "better" than others. But that "better" is very subjective to different hearers and tastes! There are those who think they need a 1x12" or 1x15" to 'balance out' the 2x10", and maybe that actually does work for them.

Personally, I already had a Bassman Neo 115 when I got my R500c, and it does certainly sound great with it! But, as I've said here many times, I cannot tell any significant difference between the sound of the 210 amp and the 115 Neo when used together, other than the added power/headroom.

But, If I was to shop for an extension cab for the R500c, I'd go for the Rumble 210 cab for the vertical array coupling tonal enhancements of identical speakers!

 

[Giff]

Maybe guitar amps are badly directional, too. I haven't actually used one in years - I always play guitar direct to PA/monitors anymore.

It's frustrating to feel the same need for bass, though, makes me wonder whether I should just get a PA speaker instead of an amp. The amp is cheap and looks cool though.

It's hard for me to evaluate because I don't know how much of the issue is my own fingers or my cheapo bass or just my own lack of skill at turning knobs, in addition to the amp/speaker - likely a combination of all of the above. I know that in the IEM's I have waaaaay better sound than the audience does. My bass is loud and clear in those, but a muddy mess in the audience.

Maybe elevate the amp. Set it atop something solid.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

The amp sounds great if your ears are directly on axis with the center of the speaker, but just dull and loud (rumbly?) as soon as you move even a tiny amount - so almost no one (including me) actually hears the good sound most of the time.

I guess since guitar amps often have open backs they don't suffer as much from this, but it's really annoying on my Rumble. Now I find myself trying to learn more about speaker dispersion specs and looking at coaxial speakers. Seems the Eminence 3012cx is the real answer for a 1x12 - expensive and heavier, though...

Tweeters are far more directional. Well, high frequencies are.

 

[tom-g]

Beaming has been discussed multiple times. Here is a just one thread

Thread 'Speaker Beaming'

Aug 4, 2017

Can someone fill me in on what beaming effect is and how it relates to speaker size? How does multiple drivers affect beaming? What are the real-world consequences?

• monkeyfinger
• Replies: 13
• Forum: Amps and Cabs [BG]

 

[ValerieK]

I'm sorry I said anything. I'll delete the posts and refrain from posting here in the future.

 

[mapleglo]

What cabinet pairs good with the Rumble 500? Would the Fender Rumble 210 cabinet be the right fit? I don’t necessarily need it at the moment but I suspect some outdoor gigs playing classic/southern rock might could use it. For the jazz thing I want to do I know the 500 is more than what I need but I like amps.

I've had great results with the 2x10 matching Fender Rumble Cab. Does well both outdoors and in. I put them both on risers.

 

[G-Dog]

I'm sorry I said anything. I'll delete the posts and refrain from posting here in the future.

Now, that's not the way to be, Val. If you hear it that way, then stick to your guns. Don't let the "conventional wisdom" ruin your experience. Everybody has different sensibilities. Discussion is for honest give and take, not the removal of one side or the other. That's why there are different brands with different signature sounds, for different ears. Vive la difference!

Music is art! And that's the real bottom line here. Yeah, there are scientific principles involved, but they aren't the overruling essence. The art part is about recognizing and producing the "feel" you feel, whether because of, or in spite of, the science.

 

[GonePlaid]

I'm sorry I said anything. I'll delete the posts and refrain from posting here in the future.

No, not necessary. It opened up a discussion on the topic. 'Course at my age(80), with my hearing(what?), I can't hear a difference anyway.

 

[tom-g]

I'm sorry I said anything. I'll delete the posts and refrain from posting here in the future.

Sorry, my post was not in any way meant to criticize you. On the contrary, I thought the reference provided valuable information for you. I am sorry I offended you.

Edit: And to add, yours is a valid point. I am sure you‘re not alone with that experience.

 

[toughluck]

Tweeters are far more directional. Well, high frequencies are.

That's another reason why tweeters are much smaller diameter (other than the reduced mass). Directionality results from larger drivers.

Actually, (and I'm not calling anyone "Ashley") I've always understood higher frequencies to be most susceptible to directional beaming, with lower frequencies being more omnidirectional. A very old school complaint I heard as a beginning guitarist in the early '60s about the super-clean 7ender guitar amps was their tendency to be "icepick" beamy! Nowadays, it's common for lead guitarists to use "beam blockers", or even simply turn their amp to the wall with the open back to the audience! But, certainly, bass guitar tones do contain higher frequencies, and harmonics, that add significantly to their definition.

Googling "beamy sound" gave me this AI Overview I found interesting (with my emoji-comments added):

A "beamy" sound can refer to two main concepts: a technological phenomenon in audio where sound becomes highly directional (beaming), or the use of "beaming" as a technology to direct sound. ... ...​

• In audio, "beaming" is when higher frequencies are projected in a narrow, direct "beam" rather than spreading out into the soundfield.
• This happens when the size of a speaker driver and the wavelength of the sound are similar, making the soundwaves become more directional.
• It can be seen in high-frequency drivers like tweeters, and also in multi-driver setups like a 4x12 speaker cabinet, where it starts at lower frequencies than a single large driver.
• It is sometimes described as a "shrill treble beam" off-axis, and can be addressed by physical solutions like placing foam in front of the speaker.

Hmmm, given this table of musical note wavelengths, a 12" speaker most closely matches the C#/Db-6 note at 1108.7Hz! So, in bass guitar usage, that must surely, Shirley, be an octave or harmonic to the intended fundamental note, since the G-4 (~392Hz) is the 24th fret of the usual bass G-string. So, I'd expect bass amps with tweeters to be even more "beamy", no?

All that to say that, yes indeed, it seems that high frequency "beaminess" of bass speakers can be detrimental to note definition in off-axis locations! But, I'm sure the Rumble designers were aware of this when they targeted the 7ender bass signature sound.

Barefaced has an excellent primer on this topic: Cone size vs frequency response

 

[G-Dog]

I've had great results with the 2x10 matching Fender Rumble Cab. Does well both outdoors and in. I put them both on risers.

That's another reason why tweeters are much smaller diameter (other than the reduced mass). Directionality results from larger drivers.

Barefaced has an excellent primer on this topic: Cone size vs frequency response

Hmmm interesting, toughie! Ever since my Rumble 500 2x10" combo cured my 15" snobbery I've wondered about back-uo documentation (though not enough to actually search for it myself). And that epistle you linked, Cone size vs frequency response, nails the answer for me! I especially like the section of that linked document headed But I'm sure I've read that dispersion is critical? where it says "If you stack [speakers] in a vertical line then they maintain the dispersion advantage ...". This jives well with the stacked vertical speakers coupling enhancement effect. Thanks!

Now, armed with this information ... ...

Mapleglo, not to get too much up in your bidness, (if so, then just ignore me) but ... you might want to consider that same section of that linked document where it says, "place [speakers] side by side and they act like a [doubled] wide speaker which means [a single smaller speaker] outperforms them by a significant margin. So the ever popular 2x2 arrangement of a 4x10" means it has worse dispersion than a 21" woofer." But I do like the look of the artistic risers you've put your R500c and 210 cab upon to basically make a 4x10" arrangement.

 

[John D Harris]

View attachment 7369444

I've had great results with the 2x10 matching Fender Rumble Cab. Does well both outdoors and in. I put them both on risers.

Klos, but no cigar!

LOL!

Nice, I'd love to try one out!

 

[mapleglo]

Yesterday I brought just the Rumble 500, no extension cabinet, to the outside gig. I decided to live dangerously. The rig performed perfectly. I was more than loud enough with plenty of headroom, and I wasn't even pushing the volume. I think I was at around 1/4 volume on the master and the gain. Impressive amp.

And regarding the bass, it quickly became my number one. It weighs 7 pounds, has a nice punchy sound, carbon fiber neck which never needs adjustment (at least so far), and I have no reason to play any of my other basses. Thinking of selling a few of my Rickenbacker's...

 

[Barry O Connor]

Hi all. Just wondering is it possible to buy a replacement front grill for Fender Rumbles? I just bought a second hand 800 but when it arrived it had no front grill. The seller had it serviced but they never replaced it and he hadn't even opened the box when it was sent back to him. I cant find anything so far online.

 

[G-Dog]

Hi all. Just wondering is it possible to buy a replacement front grill for Fender Rumbles? I just bought a second hand 800 but when it arrived it had no front grill. The seller had it serviced but they never replaced it and he hadn't even opened the box when it was sent back to him. I cant find anything so far online.

Your seller should follow up with whoever serviced it! Otherwise, you could be in for a bit of a puzzle adventure.

I've not heard of any reliably accessible source for Rumble grille assemblies. Maybe check with a local woodworker or possibly an upholstery shop to build a new one. They're not complicated for someone with the right skills. If you don't have any trace of the original, you may need to check them out at a local music store selling Rumbles. Take pictures for the prospective maker. They come off with direct prying from the velcro pads, starting with the black tab at the bottom right. You might ask if they also sell the clothe and/or Fender logo, or you may have to order those from an amp parts online vendor. Good luck!