Fodera Imperial Elite 5-String Available!

[lamarjones]

My post explaining why batch building made sense was again #43. Your need to have people acknowledge they are hearing things is interesting in light of the fact that you obviously weren't hearing me. I even quoted the entire post AGAIN when I asked if anyone had read it.

I thought that was the last time you were going to explain it to us?

I understand that. I'm not sure if many of you even understand what I'm talking about. I'll try one last time
.

There are just merits to putting that effort into something they already sold versus something they are going to sell, all of this refocusing/redirecting arguments aside (which is where it gets annoying). My opinion of course. I thought

When you're in a production mode it makes sense to do multiples. Plus if you end up with spare parts, it doesn't make sense to have them sitting around. Why not make a bass to go along with them?
.

was a very nice attempt at displaying your argument honestly.

 

[spade2you]

Dear boutique friends,
Let's not focus so much effort on attacking each other. Don't we get enough crap for playing basses with too many knobs, strings, coffee table tops, etc, as is?!?!

 

[narud]

Can't tell you how long for a shirt but I can tell you how long it takes to get a replacement onboard preamp when yours goes out...2 months! Craziness!

I purchased my Fodera as "certified used" earlier this year. I too, am way to impatient for a 2 year wait. So, I went this route. It took them over 2 weeks to send it to me from the time I ordered it. Ok, they are busy so it took them a while. They wanted to set it up and put on the strings I wanted. No real big deal.

Get the bass, the setup was good, but not great. Had to tweak it a little. Again not a major deal but when you are paying almost $6K for a used instrument. You may expect more.

So, after having it a month. The output level on the bridge pickup drops tremendously. I call, leave message, no response. I call again. Get the receptionist..."Joey will call you back"...again. No response. I call again...I get "Joey says to make sure your pickup height is adjusted correctly" My response...I am not an idiot, I know how to adjust the pickup height and it is the same as when it came from you!

Frustrated, I take it to my local store that is a Fodera dealer. They finally get Joey on the phone. They figure out it is the blend pot. Since it is all integrated, they have to replace the preamp. 2 months later, they finally ship the pre. Jim at Atlanta Bass Gallery had the pre installed and back to me the same day he received it. Of course, it took Fodera 2 months to ship it.

Right now, I am not impressed with their customer service or lack thereof but it is still a great bass. I just hope I never have any other issues with it. If I do, I will probably get it fixed and sell it. A hassle I do not want to deal with.

well, luckily mike pope is way cool. you can always email him directly with any issues you have with one of his pre's.

 

[KJung]

well, luckily mike pope is way cool. you can always email him directly with any issues you have with one of his pre's.

A big +1 there. The Greengrove guys are the same way with the Celinder electronics. Much better to go right to them if you have a question or problem.

Mike totally backs up those pre's (and what a player!).

 

[Just Thumpin']

It seems that many of you are forgetting that there is a waiting list for these instruments. It sometimes takes months or longer just to get to a customers bass order. Essentially you are waiting in line. Like Disneyland, only with a much better ride at the end. Vinnie says that in a good year that he can build roughly 120 basses by hand, which is already impressive, in the same breath he told me that he receives roughly 250 orders a year. That's more than twice as many than he can build, the waiting list goes up from there. The official wait time I believe is roughly 18 months now, that's the minimum wait not including extremely unusual custom options. Trust me I know, I am a friend of the Joey and Vinnie's and an "Fodera Artist" and I have been waiting for almost 2 years just like anyone else including all of the heavy hitters. I am willing to wait that long because I feel that their instruments are worth it in every way possible. Vinnie takes tone into account during every aspect of the instruments build process, sometime this means rebuilding things. In my case it meant filling hundreds of tiny,tiny pinholes in a burl top by hand, where most manufacturers would just epoxy the entire piece of wood, Vinnie wouldn't because it compromise the integrity of the woods tone. Now that's something that I can respect. If more builders would do this than there would be more great instruments, yes that would mean longer waits but you wouldn't see as many of those basses up for resale. Also people don't take real life events into consideration. When you are talking about one man (artist) building an instrument if he gets sick, or someone in his family gets sick (which has happened, God bless him) he must take time off to deal with that issue. Thus increasing the wait time. Another person may say "why not add more staff to build?" my answer is, that the unwillingness to compromise quality is what makes a Fodera, a Fodera and bringing more people in could compromise that. If you want a real wait time look into Bob Benedetto's beautiful instruments, it makes Fodera's look like millisecond and a fraction of the cost. If you are not willing to do the wait than these are simply not the basses for you. But I do know that they are the basses for me.!!!!!! Just take a look at the reward.

FABULOUS response and I agree with every word. The level of detail and perfectionism at Fodera is unlike anything I have seen elsewhere.

 

[Bass4LifeRS]

Normally I appreciate your comments Brad, but in this thread it's like you were paid to stir up, and endlessly argu(ment)ing. Hope to see you in good ole' form in another thread

 

[Just Thumpin']

and... Brad and I are TB buddies. I love a good back and forth. I even love to argue about what a good back and forth is

Edit: I also owe 'Just Thumpin' a beer for taking his well intentioned post about a rare 'new Fodera ready for purchase', and turning it into the 'clash of the mini-titans'!

No worries here, it's like the gust of wind over the Great Plains that started a car crash in Europe!

 

[Brad Johnson]

In the instances you are talking about, batch building makes sense to a certain point.

Take you example of cutting a top and then having enough wood to make another top out of it. That is a good use of time, taking that would and gluing it to the extra ash body you have laying around is quick enough. I would say this is similar to gluing up neck blanks as well.

But shaping the body blank and the neck blank are a couple of the most time intensive parts of a guitar build. Its one thing gluing up extra body blanks when you have wood already cut, its another to spend the hours shaping spec basses when you have a huge wait list, especially when you consider how much is done by hand on Foderas.

I'm pretty familiar with the workings of hand building instruments. It's fairly pointless to do the body blanks if you're not going to also make the rest of the parts that go with them. And I'm not sure how much time you think it takes to form a neck or shape a body... for someone who knows how to do it.

As everybody agrees, the few essence basses that Fodera will put our aren't the root of their "problems" but it doesn't make it any more palpable to the customers.

I wonder how many customers this is actually bothering?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I thought that was the last time you were going to explain it to us?

It was. When I later asked if anyone read it I clearly wasn't explaining it again. Was I?

There are just merits to putting that effort into something they already sold versus something they are going to sell, all of this refocusing/redirecting arguments aside (which is where it gets annoying). My opinion of course. I thought

And I thought there was merit in what I explained, which appeared to not be considered by people who really weren't understanding what I was saying.

was a very nice attempt at displaying your argument honestly.

My "argument" has been displayed honestly and evenhanded the entire thread. Some people chose to be bothered by it rather than actually think about it. I can't help that. All I can do is try to explain what I've said.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Normally I appreciate your comments Brad, but in this thread it's like you were paid to stir up, and endlessly argu(ment)ing. Hope to see you in good ole' form in another thread

Let's see... this was a thread about a bass that was available... and out of this entire thread you think that me arguing is the problem?

Did you understand what I was talking about? Did you see no merit and only an argument?

Okay. Let me know who you think paid me to argue on the behalf of a luthier I have no connection with other than owning a used bass.


I'm arguing on the side of thinking. I'm laying out things that others may not have considered. Looking at what people think is a problem that some have said they now see as not of the magnitude they originally made it out to be. That's all. People can be upset about whatever they want. Now lamar will probably say I'm explaining again.

My bad.

 

[Smallequestrian]

I'm pretty familiar with the workings of hand building instruments. It's fairly pointless to do the body blanks if you're not going to also make the rest of the parts that go with them. And I'm not sure how much time you think it takes to form a neck or shape a body... for someone who knows how to do it.

I know it takes a long time, I happen to be friends with a couple of Luthiers, getting a body and or neck shaped and sanded for finish is about the most time consuming part of the build.

 

[-Kramer-]

If Kevin Freeby is right and Fodera is taking 250 orders a year and can only build 125 basses a year then Vinnie is in BIG trouble.

Consider this: Lets assume that Fodera's backlong is 0. This year they take 250 orders. The person who orders the 250th bass will have to wait a FULL two years for that bass. At the end of the first year Fodera will have produced 125 basses and will the have a backlog of 375 basses (250 orders - 125 completed + 250 NEW orders). The person who placed that 250th order of the second year will have to wait 3 FULL years. It only gets worse from this point.

 

[funkydanbass]

In my experience, (buying 2 Foderas), the team at Fodera leave ALOT, (if not everything), to be desired in the area of customer service and trust building.

They should be eternally greatful for the represenation of folks like Mike at the Groove Shoppe and Glenn at the Austin Bass Traders, (amongst others).

I love my basses and would consider buying again, but NEVER from Fodera direct AND after being accosted by Mike Bendy via email (for not committing to a $10k+ sale after one or two qualifying emails), probably never from there Certified Pre-Owned either.

FYI, it took me about 3-4 months to get a blank nut from Fodera, (through Glenn at ABT), so I could convert my Imperial to E-C tuning.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I know it takes a long time, I happen to be friends with a couple of Luthiers, getting a body and or neck shaped and sanded for finish is about the most time consuming part of the build.

Define "long time". Otherwise it means nothing.

 

[ibanezcollector]

my friend has been trying for 3 years to get a replacement switch for his Emperor which can be seen in my youtube video on one of them..


They keep saying they will send one, and guess what happens LOL..

He finally gave up, he just wanted it to be right since there switch tips are different then a stocked allparts or whatever switch..

 

[Groovin]

Other than the "idiots" thing, I'd agree. Some of those "idiots" who bought a few years ago have seen the value of their basses increase. Pretty idiotic, huh?

haha, true enough. I was refering to the whole "more $ than sense..."

As far as the value increase, the same can be said for a lot of small batch production items that retain demand in the market place.

 

[Brad Johnson]

haha, true enough. I was refering to the whole "more $ than sense..."

As far as the value increase, the same can be said for a lot of small batch production items that retain demand in the market place.

Not in this realm, not IME. Not many basses can command that.

 

[kjpollo]

If Kevin Freeby is right and Fodera is taking 250 orders a year and can only build 125 basses a year then Vinnie is in BIG trouble.

Consider this: Lets assume that Fodera's backlong is 0. This year they take 250 orders. The person who orders the 250th bass will have to wait a FULL two years for that bass. At the end of the first year Fodera will have produced 125 basses and will the have a backlog of 375 basses (250 orders - 125 completed + 250 NEW orders). The person who placed that 250th order of the second year will have to wait 3 FULL years. It only gets worse from this point.

This could be the best illustration of the problem in this whole thread!!!

At SOME indefinable point, Fodera wont have to worry about an ever-increasing backlog-the stream of new orders will probably dwindle which will allow them to finally start making headway on the backlog. It stands to reason that as word gets out about ACTUAL vs promised production time, fewer and fewer potential customers will make the move to order one and put down a deposit.

Personally, I dont see myself ever being able to afford such an instrument but if I ever do somehow reach that level of financial security, I can practically guarantee that this thread alone would steer me to other luthiers. The apparently appalling lack of customer service + extremely high price + outrageously long wait times = my $$$ going elsewhere!!

Hey, I'm 46. If I become affluent enough to order one in the next few years, I'd be lucky to get it before I get my AARP card!

 

[NickyBass]

When dealing with Fodera, I don't think the same expectations apply as when dealing with, say, Fender. Fodera is a collection of artisans whose goal is to produce the best bass that they can. They are not nabobs trying to juice more money by going public. They are reaching the point where they are getting bigger and bigger by the day. This creates a problem when the pressures of running a business interfere with creating a product that one can be proud of. I, for one, would rather see a few 'bad' business decisions than bad QC. What I'm saying is, if I want something that is considered by most to be one of the best basses available, I would rather deal with some of the small setbacks than recieve a bass that doesn't live up to the Fodera name.

Now, I know that they could probably bring on some people to run the day to day operations, but often, the best craftsmen don't make the best businessmen. I normally stay out of these type threads, but Fodera is getting alot of flak about this, and, really, it's a lot of speculation. We really don't know the deal on the Essence line, and it's not like they are pushing aside custom orders to focus the bulk of their time on a production model. This is the first that I've seen a completed Essence, so this isn't an every day thing.

 

[KJung]

When dealing with Fodera, I don't think the same expectations apply as when dealing with, say, Fender

um...+1. I would have the same expectations as dealing with MTD, Skjold, Ritter, Alleva, etc.