There is a block diagram in the manual and that is kinda what it looks like to my very amateur eye.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Genz Benz Streamliner Part 3!!!!
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
- Status
There is a block diagram in the manual and that is kinda what it looks like to my very amateur eye.
Actually, there is *a lot* you can do about that.
I'd be willing to wager this is not the fault of your amp.
String choice, technique, set-up, and eq choices at the instrument level can greatly impact high end clank and fret noise.
As for low end overload, in a pre-eq DI, that just shouldn't be there whether it's an SS signal chain or a tube laden signal chain. This makes me think you're using the post eq option, and don't have the amp's input gain set correctly. What you describe the low end doing is just what I'd expect from an improperly set SS front end.
No offense intended with any of this; just trying to help.
.
I'd be willing to wager this is not the fault of your amp.
String choice, technique, set-up, and eq choices at the instrument level can greatly impact high end clank and fret noise.
As for low end overload, in a pre-eq DI, that just shouldn't be there whether it's an SS signal chain or a tube laden signal chain. This makes me think you're using the post eq option, and don't have the amp's input gain set correctly. What you describe the low end doing is just what I'd expect from an improperly set SS front end.
No offense intended with any of this; just trying to help.
.
True which is why I spend time learning my direct out from my Navigator, how I can send a post EQ signal that is similar to my pre-EQ signal, what gain levels, direct level works.
It makes a massive difference and I know I'm sending the P.A. the best signal that doesn't clip.
Having a wireless is great too so I can walk out where the crowd is & have an idea about the sound too.Mic'ing the cab for church isn't an option. Often times we are the soundmen too.
I'm hoping I can have a better direct out signal using the Streamliner vs a used $150 SS amp. I would hope there would be a major difference, its what I would pay a premium for. If its the same, i honestly would pass on this and put money in the above things you brought up that would "matter" like strings, setup, bass etc right?
If you're still using the Navigator, I'd hardly call that "a used $150 solid state amp."
I think the Nav's DI, eq, and all it's myriad adjustments, really is very close to top tier, based on my use of it.
I'd expect the Streamliner DI in either incarnation (pre/post) to sound more similar than different when compared to the Nav's.
I think the Nav's DI, eq, and all it's myriad adjustments, really is very close to top tier, based on my use of it.
I'd expect the Streamliner DI in either incarnation (pre/post) to sound more similar than different when compared to the Nav's.
Awesome, if I'm paying for 3 tubes, I want the crowd to hear em! Now to confirm they make a difference vs a SS head!
If anyone could run a quick test through their direct out, pre & post EQ, into their mixer we'd all know the crowd can hear the awesomeness of the Streamliner vs a $150 used SS head.
Why do you keep insisting that the three tubes might not make a difference?
In the pre eq choice, they shouldn't.
In the post eq choice, of course they will.
Again, I'd hardly call a Navigator a $150 piece of ss junk as you seem to be implying.
I've said my say here, on this part of the discussion.
In the pre eq choice, they shouldn't.
In the post eq choice, of course they will.
Again, I'd hardly call a Navigator a $150 piece of ss junk as you seem to be implying.
I've said my say here, on this part of the discussion.
Nav is great... its just in a huge rack & its my ONLY amp. I need a backup.
My point is, if the Streamliner is an upgrade to the Nav, LM III, GK MB500, TC 450 I see all hitting the used market, I want to know the crowd will hear the difference. If there ISN'T a difference going to the audience I'd rather pick up these used amps on the cheap. Yeah my personal monitor tone may not be as great but the music is exactly the same. Kjung said most of his amps direct out sound similiar, which is why I brought this up, I just want to confirm thats NOT the case.
Thanks for the help Chef, appreciate it
If you couldnt tell the difference, why pay the premium for the Streamliner? Is this true or not is the question!
I am still not sure why you can't eq your tonal needs at the board - a good clean pre eq DI should get you there, it works for thousands of bands just fine. It seems for those that want to take it to the next step soundwise rely on gear such as the REDDI. I have seen so many shows with the bassist going into a great stage rig, and a REDDI or Avalon going to the board.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
I know if I'm using some signal saturation I want that reflected in DI. I think that might have been addressed a lot earlier before the amps were actually in any hands, but I don't recall what the answer is. But surely someone here could answer it in about a minute.
I don't know about others, but I have shows with no PA sometimes and that is where a good rig can help. There are others that just do effects into a high quality DI and forget the cabs and amps, just go through an appropriate monitor. Each will have their own needs or desires.
I have not used the Streamliner DI yet, but is should be every bit as good as my LMIII or TFB550 was/is and that works just fine.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
You are a bit confused. There is the sound of the amp through the cabinet. That is the primary reason you buy a particular amp, and they all sound different. The Streamliner sounds as tubey as anything I've ever heard. '
Then there is the DI signal, which can either be pre or post EQ on most amps. In 'pre EQ', the 'sound of the amp' is removed from the signal for the most part. This can be a strong positive, especially if you are using lots of EQ etc. that is 'cab specific' for your stage sound. So, most amps provide this 'pure pass through' signal to get your bass 'right into the board' without your stage settings impacting the signal. In the 'pre EQ setting' most amp DI's will sound pretty much the same, and relatively similar to a nice 'transparent' external DI like the JDI or Countryman (both industry standards for live performance).
THEN... there is 'post EQ' DI, which will translate what is coming out of the amp after all the preamp voicing, EQ, gain stage drive, etc. to the board. This again can be an OK thing, or can be a bit of a mess, given how much EQ you use, the relative sound of your bass cab (which your EQ is impacting) versus the front of house system, etc.). MOST, as Chef point out, who want a lot of their amps character going into the board, will choose (if possible) to mic a cab and not use a DI, since much of your stage sound is also due to the cab you choose to use.
Put another way, if you run your Streamliner relatively clean, the 'pre EQ' DI might actually sound more like your stage sound than the 'post EQ DI'.
So again, in summary... pre EQ DI.... most DI's will sound quite similar, since it is a pure buffered pass through from your bass to the board. Post EQ DI... amp DI's will all sound quite different, and the impact MIGHT be a good thing, or might not.
The ONLY way to get your true stage sound through to the front of house is to mic the cab.
Interesting scenario to go to a different bass player's gig to check out their sound!
Setting: the bar area of the local bowling alley (you guys have got to be moving up in the world!).
Band: Funky danceable covers and originals. Very tight!
Basses: Zon 5-string fretless and ATK fretted 4.
Amp: SL900
Cab: LDS fEarful
Sound level was perfect, loud enough to make you want to get on your feet, but not overpowering (keep the new sound guy!).
The bass rig sounded effortless. By that I mean that the rig seemed to enjoy being there and providing whatever tone and volume you wanted. I don't think I've ever heard a fretless with that much growl before. Notes on all strings were solid and articulate, but retained a very pleasing warmth. It was really organic.
When slapping on the fretted 4, you could really hear the different personalities of the two instruments, and not just the difference in technique. I don't know if there were any amp setting changes, but I don't think so.
Pedalboard effects are always a matter of personal taste. The envelope filter came through goopy and dank, but was a little muddled from where I stood. I doubt that it had to do with the amp, though.
In short, the bass was very prominent throughout the gig, but never unfocused or overbearing. It sat great in the mix of a full band, and I thought that it contributed big time to make people shake their booty. I think it's a winning setup.
Oh, and it was really cool to meet some of the folks on this forum! Such enthusiats!
If the Direct Inputs of the Streamliner are going to be "every bit as good" why wouldn't you buy a LMIII or GB MB500 for $400 less and have the same output to the crowd?
I would hope the Streamliner is "noticeably better" than the rest to the crowd right?
It seems like we have a mixed opinion... some like you & Kjung say they will be very similar & others like Chef think the 3 tubes will have a noticeable effect.
Which one is reality?
DUDE... read what we are writing. You need to understand the difference between pre versus post EQ DI settings, and the impact that will have. You also need to realize that many gigs that many do have no front of house support, and that the sound of your stage rig IS the sound the audience hears
Chef and I are saying EXACTLY the same thing.
I think we are just missing each other here.
I'd like to know if the PRE EQ tone is better on the Streamliner vs the rest.
I hate running Post EQ tone because I want to save EQ for what sounds good to my backline, you are right, my tone for the backline & PA will RARELY be the same & sound good.
Which is why PRE EQ tone is the MOST important and soundmen ask for that.
Is the Streamliners PRE EQ tone better than a SS?
If the pre-EQ DI is all that matters to you, then any amp with a decent DI will do the trick.
I'm not quite sure what your point is...?
If you are primarily thinking of buying a different amp based on the sound of a PRE EQ DI.... don't do it. The differences will, by definition, be so subtle as to not be worth it. The best way to think about 'PRE EQ' is that it, for the most part, takes the amp out of the equation. This is what Chef is also saying.
If the sound of a pre EQ (i.e., before your amp's voice) DI is key, buy a DI (like the Reddi) that provides a nice, warm, tubey tone to the board independent of your amp (or, mic your amp if you dig your stage sound with your current rig)
- Status
