Genz Benz Streamliner-Pt 2

[Jared Lash]

I love the simplicity of the controls, the size of the 900 and the output is killer. And if Ed's sold and using this as his go to rig then I'm in.

To be fair, I believe Ed has said in this thread that the Shuttle will still be his go to rig. And given his tonal goals/preferences I can completely see why that would be the case for him.

But for me? The Streamliner seems perfect. C'mon UPS. Monday can't get here fast enough!

 

[GRoberts]

Ed Friedland the Bass Whisper can't say more good things about the Genz Benz Streamliner 900, he just posted his video review and it's got me considering trading in my Mesa Boggie M-Pulse 600.

I love the simplicity of the controls, the size of the 900 and the output is killer. And if Ed's sold and using this as his go to rig then I'm in.

Wow. Trading off an M-Pulse 600 for a Micro amp? (one helluva micro amp however) ...that's gonna be a revelation! Based on what I heard, I can't blame you! The Genz Benz Streamliner 900 sounds glorious in the YouTube Video demo that Ed Friedland did. I would imagine it's even better in person when you can 'feel' the way it responds as you play.

I've found that hearing an amp in a recording is one thing. But feeling how it responds while you play and hear its tonal signature is another thing.

 

[3wavylines]

I am wondering something about the EQ of Streamliner, and I don't recall it being addressed in this thread.

Does the EQ only affect the signal after the overdrive? or is there some interaction between the EQ and the overdrive?

For instance, if you crank the mids, would that add overdrive? or would it just emphasize the mids in the already overdriven signal?

I am assuming that the EQ only changes the already overdriven signal, but I am wondering if the tubes associated with the EQ could add more.

Thanks.

 

[Hot Rats]

Also, if you're looking for that grindy, compressed tube tone in a small package, would the 600 not be better than the 900? Would you get more of the power tube effect with the smaller head since you'd be pushing it harder to get he same volume? (and is that a factor in why the Walkabout is only a 300 watt head? To encourage you to push the power section a little harder?)

This is a great question. I would love to hear what the answer might be also.

 

[hasbeen]

Streamliner which seemed to have a fuzzier type of tone. /QUOTE]

this is a challenge with video demos. Please keep in mind:
* the tweeter was on. The will surely take away from "classic". At NAMM, when I demo'd the overdrive, the first thing I'd do would be to turn off the horn.
* the mic was placed near the horn on the video.
* I'd also roll off treble for overdrive.

If you're running an active bass, with the horn on and micing the near the horn, it won't sound old-school.

 

[hasbeen]

I
Also, if you're looking for that grindy, compressed tube tone in a small package, would the 600 not be better than the 900? Would you get more of the power tube effect with the smaller head since you'd be pushing it harder to get he same volume?

you won't get more "emulated" output tube break up, but the 600 will start to squeeze sooner than the 900.

 

[rpsands]

Tone knob is a dirt fan's best friend. Seriously.

Markbass makes a pedal with the VLE on it that's awesome for that too.

 

[ubercore]

this is a challenge with video demos. Please keep in mind:
* the tweeter was on. The will surely take away from "classic". At NAMM, when I demo'd the overdrive, the first thing I'd do would be to turn off the horn.
* the mic was placed near the horn on the video.
* I'd also roll off treble for overdrive.

If you're running an active bass, with the horn on and micing the near the horn, it won't sound old-school.

I'd like to request that, for the next batch of user videos, someone try hasbeen's suggestions for the overdrive tone. I was also turned off by it, but would very much like to be convinced otherwise

 

[Eublet]

Streamliner which seemed to have a fuzzier type of tone. /QUOTE]

this is a challenge with video demos. Please keep in mind:
* the tweeter was on. The will surely take away from "classic". At NAMM, when I demo'd the overdrive, the first thing I'd do would be to turn off the horn.
* the mic was placed near the horn on the video.
* I'd also roll off treble for overdrive.

If you're running an active bass, with the horn on and micing the near the horn, it won't sound old-school.

+1, and this is totally why I said I wouldn't judge the tone by a Youtube video, even when it's as well done as Ed's. Just too many variables involved. I know that I've gone through a lot of OD pedals that sounded great via web clips, but didn't really have anything I wanted in person. I'd also turn the horn down if not completely off. The main thing to me was that the Streamliner seemed to capture that beefy, buttery tone I'd expect from a real tube head. Even the RH450 doesn't really do that at all to me. It sounds vintagey from an EQ perspective, and TC's own power management approach does help create something like the give of a tube head, but from what I can tell the Streamliner really seems to take it a bit further as expected.

And I have to say I LOVE the EQ approach. Lows at 55 hz is perfect. The 3 mid settings are also spot on for what I'd want to see. Love the 2.5k grind setting for rock. Also really dig the higher treble setting for adding some sparkle or vintage warmth. Very well thought out EQ approach.

I am curious of one thing though. If the tweeter on a cabinet is off, and assuming the crossover is at a typical 4k, does the treble knob dip down low enough to even be noticeable if you cut it completely? It seems that knob might not even be necessary in that scenario. On the other hand, with a tweeterless, full-range cab that knob probably really shines!

 

[KJung]

Tone knob is a dirt fan's best friend. Seriously.

Markbass makes a pedal with the VLE on it that's awesome for that too.

+1 Per Eublet's comment on the RH450 also. All these heads kind of take a different approach to emulating an 'older school' sound.

With the RH450/Classic, there is a fixed lo pass filter built in. Therefore, this head tries (and does a great job) emulating an entire old school rig... tubey tone in the head, and a fixed roll-off that makes a cab even with a tweeter sound 'one way', and very nice with the tubetone emulation. There is a further reduction of the top end as you engage the tubetone, to further give you that kind of 'fridge' sort of tone, regardless of what cab you are using... almost an entire 'system' modeling approach. Pretty cool, however, it is baked into the sound. In future versions (already in their new 500 and 1600 line) there will be an adjustable lo pass that will allow you to dial that impact in and out.

With the Markbass heads, there is a variable lo pass called the VLE (vintage loudspeaker emulation), which again allows you to roll-off top end at variable frequency levels, hence taking the tweeter out of the signal from the front of the amp.

The Streamliner takes a more 'we are going to voice the head to mimic an all tube head', without particularly providing any specific control over the voicing of the cab up top (except for the treble control. So, when you kick in the grind, it would seem you would need to turn down the tweeter from the back of the cab.

 

[Eublet]

Tone knob is a dirt fan's best friend. Seriously.

Agreed. It allows you to really push OD without things sounding harsh. That 2k - 3k "bite" range can then be dialed up pretty high without making ears bleed. With a tweeterless cab though, this usually isn't an issue. The problems I've had in the past is that most cabs I use have tweeters and are crossed over at 4k. This seems to be a bit too low for a good OD if you turn the tweeter off completely. So I wind up turning it down a good bit, but that still lets a lot of treble come through. Having a good treble control really helps. It seems to me that the Streamliner control would work well to help take the sharpness off so that you still get a bit of presence above 4k.

 

[svtb15]

Doing videos are so hard to do well.
The reasons are listed above. Mic placement.. Room sound.. I find room reverberation / slap delay/ room boom / to be the most distracting of all.. not to mention poor recording quality..
Room sounds tend to thin the sound being captured IMO... if the mic is too close you don't get the room as much but then you get or too much tweet etc..
I wish there were a better way to capture sound faithfully without having a anechoic chamber..
Until then we have to be willing to cut some slack to the people that take the time to do the videos.. Myself included

 

[hasbeen]

I am wondering something about the EQ of Streamliner, and I don't recall it being addressed in this thread.

Does the EQ only affect the signal after the overdrive? or is there some interaction between the EQ and the overdrive?

For instance, if you crank the mids, would that add overdrive? or would it just emphasize the mids in the already overdriven signal?

I am assuming that the EQ only changes the already overdriven signal, but I am wondering if the tubes associated with the EQ could add more.

Thanks.

the tone networks are after the tube gain stages. The tone network will change the tone/harmonic content of the overdrive you're hearing, but it won't affect how much overdrive your are getting.

 

[Eublet]

Doing videos are so hard to do well.
The reasons are listed above. Mic placement.. Room sound.. I find room reverberation / slap delay/ room boom / to be the most distracting of all.. not to mention poor recording quality..
Room sounds tend to thin the sound being captured IMO... if the mic is too close you don't get the real tone on the amp/cab or too much tweet etc..
I wish there were a better way to capture sound faithfully without having a anechoic chamber..
Until then we have to be willing to cut some slack to the people that take the time to do the videos.. Myself included

So true. I remember listening to Ken's videos going from one cab to another, and noticed how remarkably similar they sounded on the video, even though I knew in person that they had a much more drastic difference in tone. You have to kind of extrapolate things from the videos out into the realm of actual experience, and that can be tricky. But Ed going back and forth between the 900 and 9.2 really helped solidify for me what the 900 can do. You could really hear that buttery slur going on in the voicing. I don't know any other way to describe it. So buttery slur it is!

 

[KJung]

Doing videos are so hard to do well.
The reasons are listed above. Mic placement.. Room sound.. I find room reverberation / slap delay/ room boom / to be the most distracting of all.. not to mention poor recording quality..
Room sounds tend to thin the sound being captured IMO... if the mic is too close you don't get the real tone on the amp/cab or too much tweet etc..
I wish there were a better way to capture sound faithfully without having a anechoic chamber..
Until then we have to be willing to cut some slack to the people that take the time to do the videos.. Myself included

One of the keys, I've found, is to place the mic 10 or 15 feet away from the cab, and just a touch off axis. Yes, you will get some room sound in there, but IMO that is a good thing, especially if the room is relatively normal (i.e., big enough to allow the sound to develop, with a bit of carpet and some hard walls).

I agree that a close-mic'd clip really doesn't tell you much.

 

[hasbeen]

I am curious of one thing though. If the tweeter on a cabinet is off, and assuming the crossover is at a typical 4k, does the treble knob dip down low enough to even be noticeable if you cut it completely? It seems that knob might not even be necessary in that scenario. On the other hand, with a tweeterless, full-range cab that knob probably really shines!

yes...it still has an affect. Out treble control really feels like a passive tone roll-off in certain applications.

In my comment, I was also speaking about the treble on active basses. I keep those flat if overdriving.

 

[Eublet]

I agree that a close-mic'd clip really doesn't tell you much.

Not only that, but there's a reason why that close-mic'd technique is so often used in the studio. It hides a lot of things inherrent in the tone, and gives you a nice warm, round sound, depending on mic placement or course. I'd agree that it doesn't do much to help you judge the overall sound of the cab, since there's much more to the tone than what's happening right in front of that cone. But for the purpose of Ed's video, he was demoing the head itself, not really the cab. And the fact that he kept switching between the 9.2 and 900 is really what makes that video so useful to me. Most of us in this thread are familiar with the Shuttle voicing, so having that brief back-and-forth comparison is fantastic to me irregardless of how the mic'ing was done. I could hear a pretty dramatic difference on a good pair of headphones, and I can extrapolate that the differences would be much more pronounced in person. I'm quite impressed to say the least.

 

[Eublet]

yes...it still has an affect. Out treble control really feels like a passive tone roll-off in certain applications.

In my comment, I was also speaking about the treble on active basses. I keep those flat if overdriving.

It seemed to do just that on Ed's video, so this makes sense, and I'll give many kudos to you guys for designing it as such. It even sounded as if it were a PTC on the video.

 

[CharlieC]

I greatly appreciate Ed Friedland's Streamliner 900 video and the speed at which he produced it for us, twice-over even, to fix a product name mistake, but someone else needs to step-up and video for us now and kick-it old-school!

Please make sure your tweeter is off, better yet, use a 410 or 810 cab from an old-school manufacturer (you know.)

Please demo the amp with a ubiquitous passive Fender Jazz or Precision bass so that we know what we're sonically starting with.

Of course, this video invitation is also extended to the good folks at GENZ BENZ and not just those lucky few who have purchased one at the moment

Thanks!

 

[KJung]

Not only that, but there's a reason why that close-mic'd technique is so often used in the studio. It hides a lot of things inherrent in the tone, and gives you a nice warm, round sound, depending on mic placement or course. I'd agree that it doesn't do much to help you judge the overall sound of the cab, since there's much more to the tone than what's happening right in front of that cone. But for the purpose of Ed's video, he was demoing the head itself, not really the cab. And the fact that he kept did that switching between the 9.2 and 900 is really what makes that video so useful to me. Most of us in this thread are familiar with the Shuttle voicing, so having that brief band-and-forth comparison is fantastic to me irregardless of how the mic'ing was done. I could hear a pretty dramatic difference on a good pair of headphones, and I can extrapolate that the differences would be much more pronounced in person. I'm quite impressed to say the least.

+1 What is really fun is evaluating a head versus multiple other heads (that 'context' thing you are talking about) and a couple different basses, using a few different cabs by the same player in the same room. And, with the amazing quality recorders these days, it is quite surprising how close the clip ends up sounding to the 'real thing' in the room, assuming the listener has a high quality, full range playback system.