Genzler Amplification Club

[OldogNewTrick]

The BA12-3 performed very well throughout our Cab Lab measurements, and was especially close to "flat" up through 4.5kHz in the 30 degree off-axis measurement. Our measurements were done using a calibrated microphone in Audiomatica's Clio, 1 watt at 1 meter, both on and off-axis.

Tom, what happened to your in-depth cabinet lab tests? The last one was the Revsound RS88T from '21? Even prior they had become scarcer than in the early days of BGM... used to enjoy studying these tremendously. Economics or manufacturers refusing? Sorry, Off-topic, I know...

 

[Old Blastard]

Some Genzler musings from a weekend player of no consequence, doing gigs in an originals alt-rock band every 6 weeks or so and a few fill-ins in an Americana trio:

Love my BA-10-2/MG 350 combo for small joints. Replaced my Rumble 40 a couple years ago. Tack on the BA210-1, and it fills out the stage beautifully. They don't bother running me through FOH unless it's a bigger venue.

For grins, I slapped the BA10 on top of my ol G-B Contour 500 -- Dayum!

And...the BL decided he'd like some sort of distortion on a couple of songs and everybody started tossing pedal names at me. I just went with a 4-on-the-Floor and they loved. Now they want me to get a Crash Box.

And...as a guy who played through an Ampeg B18N fliptop in the 70s, I want to add a Kinetix.

Need to find more bands to play in to buy more more stuff.

Thanks, @Jeff Genzler
And @agedhorse. This is fun.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Some Genzler musings from a weekend player of no consequence, doing gigs in an originals alt-rock band every 6 weeks or so and a few fill-ins in an Americana trio:

Love my BA-10-2/MG 350 combo for small joints. Replaced my Rumble 40 a couple years ago. Tack on the BA210-1, and it fills out the stage beautifully. They don't bother running me through FOH unless it's a bigger venue.

For grins, I slapped the BA10 on top of my ol G-B Contour 500 -- Dayum!

And...the BL decided he'd like some sort of distortion on a couple of songs and everybody started tossing pedal names at me. I just went with a 4-on-the-Floor and they loved. Now they want me to get a Crash Box.

And...as a guy who played through an Ampeg B18N fliptop in the 70s, I want to add a Kinetix.

Need to find more bands to play in to buy more more stuff.

Thanks, @Jeff Genzler
And @agedhorse. This is fun.

Thank you. Always enjoy hearing how players use our gear.

 

[Michael Vee]

Tom, what happened to your in-depth cabinet lab tests? The last one was the Revsound RS88T from '21? Even prior they had become scarcer than in the early days of BGM... used to enjoy studying these tremendously. Economics or manufacturers refusing? Sorry, Off-topic, I know...

I just now dropped by BGM, and I see what you mean. Both Full and Technical Reviews have not had anything added since 2024, only the Bassic Reviews.

 

[Hawk620]

Unfortunately, I will have backline for this show and not my Genzler rig.
Look forward to meeting you after the show Michael!

Seems to me it's time these sound companies get with it and start replacing their 300w "Iron" heads and 8x10 "Refrigerator" cabs with something better (Genzler) and much lighter (Genzler). I'm sure those hired to tote that load would appreciate it as well.

 

[Joeykun]

Damn cameraman cutting my rig in half!

 

[thegrimmbass]

I got a question about the old Genz Benz GBE1200 again, that i love dearly. I experienced the tone that came out of the rig as quite a bit brighter and with less weight than my GK amps, though. not a bad thing. in fact it sounds fantastic when playing at high volume and does not sound unpleasingly thin in anyway. however, yesterday i made recordings to compare the DI Sound in different settings and i found that my ears did not fool me. i played a little riff into the tc electronic wiretap and ran it straight into my interface, then into the amp, which i took the di from into the interface. first pre EQ, then post EQ and apart from the expected high pass, i discovered in fact a significant boost of the highs from 1khz onwards. needless to say that the EQ was set completely flat and no voicing filters were engaged. i also checked every knob in the EQ if was in fact centered and not only showing so while being misaligned...


when i compared the pre and post DI of the GK it stayed way more accurate to the original signal, apart from a thickened up low end.

i attached what i measured in logics match eq, comparing the Pre DI Signal with the Post DI signal of the Genz Benz. I can also provide the audio if there is interest. however i wondered if this is indeed intended in the design or if some kind of malfunction of my amp is possible? @agedhorse should know right?
i appreciate any insight on this!
Thanks in advance
Darius

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Damn cameraman cutting my rig in half!
View attachment 7437151

Great pic, but I'm going to need to chat with that camera person. Must of been a great show.

 

[tombowlus]

Tom, what happened to your in-depth cabinet lab tests? The last one was the Revsound RS88T from '21? Even prior they had become scarcer than in the early days of BGM... used to enjoy studying these tremendously. Economics or manufacturers refusing? Sorry, Off-topic, I know...

We had a period of time where we were not doing technical reviews (Amp Lab, Cab Lab, or Bass Lab), all for different reasons. We have been working for a while to get all three back into action. Tom Lees has been working updating the Audio Precision system and also coming up with a new and improved way to present Amp Lab findings. Can't wait for those to go live! On the Cab Lab front, I originally stopped doing them mostly because of some hardware interface issues with a new laptop and our Audiomatica Clio system, but since then, I've been working on updating our cab measurement test rig and methods, and possibly picking up a second Audio Precision system. Hoping to make more progress on this front. The Bass Lab is probably the easiest to bring back, and we are working on adding in a video component to Phil's reviews.

Thanks for asking!

 

[Hamrlik]

The Genzler Magellan-ULV-212T arrived yesterday. Initial impressions after playing it with fingers and pick on Fender Pro Jazz and Precision basses, and Gretsch 6072 “Country Gentleman” hollow body through Kinetix 800 and Genzler Shuttle 3.0 amps … superb sound that reproduces exactly what you feed the cab. The 212 sounds especially balanced with the Kinetix 800. Solid. Authoritative. With Shuttle 3.0 and Gretsch (and TI flat wounds), the sound is remarkably close to a double bass. Ordinarily this information would be enough but there’s more because as a long-time Genz user, I already suspected sonic quality would be top notch. And I’m not alluding to build quality because this is also excellent with rugged construction and obvious close attention to detail (kudos to the builders in Ohio!). No, my main reason for getting this cab was weight and form factor. The ergonomic placement of two recessed side handles makes lifting this 36-pound cab feel like a featherweight. It weighs less than a typical single-12 cab, and since the handles are higher on the 2-driver frame, lifting is safer and easier. The physical features mean I can easily take this cab to any gig and enjoy the authority of 2-driver sound even for low-volume requirements. Thank you, Jeff Genzler, for this exceptional invention!

View attachment 7431797

Nice write up as usual, Dave. Any particular reason for moving on from the Revsound 212? I've been contemplating my next cab (most likely a 212) and the Revsound was on my short list. It still is. I greatly prefer as "uncolored" as possible for my cabs but with really good low end response (I play a lot cover gigs with one band and frequently use an Octaver that some rigs tend to "pinch" off). The same is generally true for other synth effects which is why I prefer a blank-slate type of setup. Initially I considered the Bass Array line but I'm curious about a taller, single cab solution. While weight isn't a massive factor, it definitely matters as I do have growing back issues.

Any comparison you can offer between this new Genzler, the Revsound and Super Twin (which I purchased from you) would be outstanding...when you get around to it. Thanks very much and congratulations on the new rig!

 

[agedhorse]

I got a question about the old Genz Benz GBE1200 again, that i love dearly. I experienced the tone that came out of the rig as quite a bit brighter and with less weight than my GK amps, though. not a bad thing. in fact it sounds fantastic when playing at high volume and does not sound unpleasingly thin in anyway. however, yesterday i made recordings to compare the DI Sound in different settings and i found that my ears did not fool me. i played a little riff into the tc electronic wiretap and ran it straight into my interface, then into the amp, which i took the di from into the interface. first pre EQ, then post EQ and apart from the expected high pass, i discovered in fact a significant boost of the highs from 1khz onwards. needless to say that the EQ was set completely flat and no voicing filters were engaged. i also checked every knob in the EQ if was in fact centered and not only showing so while being misaligned...


when i compared the pre and post DI of the GK it stayed way more accurate to the original signal, apart from a thickened up low end.

i attached what i measured in logics match eq, comparing the Pre DI Signal with the Post DI signal of the Genz Benz. I can also provide the audio if there is interest. however i wondered if this is indeed intended in the design or if some kind of malfunction of my amp is possible? @agedhorse should know right?
i appreciate any insight on this!
Thanks in advance
Darius

Sorry, I missed this until I received your message.

No, that's not correct at both the top and bottom of the frequency sweep. I suspect that you have a vertical scale expansion in effect on your software. No way is the response -12dB at 50Hz and +10dB at 5kHz, and there is no failure that I can even dream of that could cause this.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Nice write up as usual, Dave. Any particular reason for moving on from the Revsound 212? I've been contemplating my next cab (most likely a 212) and the Revsound was on my short list. It still is. I greatly prefer as "uncolored" as possible for my cabs but with really good low end response (I play a lot cover gigs with one band and frequently use an Octaver that some rigs tend to "pinch" off). The same is generally true for other synth effects which is why I prefer a blank-slate type of setup. Initially I considered the Bass Array line but I'm curious about a taller, single cab solution. While weight isn't a massive factor, it definitely matters as I do have growing back issues.

Any comparison you can offer between this new Genzler, the Revsound and Super Twin (which I purchased from you) would be outstanding...when you get around to it. Thanks very much and congratulations on the new rig!

When I bought the RevSound, it was to pair with a Shuttle 3.0 amp. After its purchase, I discovered the Genzler Kinetix 800 and its tube tone coupled with a higher damping value made it perfect for a brand new honky tonk project that required precise control over note envelopes (think a muted effect with fast decay but without using a physical mute). On the downside, the amp's 800 watts @ 4 ohm exceeded the 400-watt rating on the RevSound so I elected to get the new Genzler cab rated at 700 watts to avoid worrying about over-excursion of the drivers. While the RevSound and Genzler cabs are about the same weight, the Genzler's dual side-mounted recessed handles gave it an edge in the easier-to-lift department -- a fairly significant edge with an easier, safer lift.

The Revsound wins hands down in the "uncolored tone" department. The Genzler is almost as uncolored but does have a bit of its own flavor. The Super Twin is even more colored in tone and well-suited to rock, blues, etc. And even at 40 pounds, the Super Twin is a bit easier to lift than the 36 pound Revsound as it has the same dual recessed side handles as the Genzler cab.

All three are excellent cabs and I would gig any of them. It so happens that having the Genzler amp and cab provides a more balanced solution that best fits my use case. Hope this helps.

 

[John D Harris]

When I bought the RevSound, it was to pair with a Shuttle 3.0 amp. After its purchase, I discovered the Genzler Kinetix 800 and its tube tone coupled with a higher damping value made it perfect for a brand new honky tonk project that required precise control over note envelopes (think a muted effect with fast decay but without using a physical mute). On the downside, the amp's 800 watts @ 4 ohm exceeded the 400-watt rating on the RevSound so I elected to get the new Genzler cab rated at 700 watts to avoid worrying about over-excursion of the drivers. While the RevSound and Genzler cabs are about the same weight, the Genzler's dual side-mounted recessed handles gave it an edge in the easier-to-lift department -- a fairly significant edge with an easier, safer lift.

The Revsound wins hands down in the "uncolored tone" department. The Genzler is almost as uncolored but does have a bit of its own flavor. The Super Twin is even more colored in tone and well-suited to rock, blues, etc. And even at 40 pounds, the Super Twin is a bit easier to lift than the 36 pound Revsound as it has the same dual recessed side handles as the Genzler cab.

All three are excellent cabs and I would gig any of them. It so happens that having the Genzler amp and cab provides a more balanced solution that best fits my use case. Hope this helps.

That is very informative!

I would have thought the Barefaced would be the least colored, so that helps me in my mental reference system.

I put a Celestion BN12-300S (4) in a 4 Ohm drivered Fender R100c combo and it's rated at 300W (it doesn't state if that is RMS).

It's unclear from Dave's website which Celestion driver he uses (obviously not two 4 Ohm drivers).

So either Celestion is using a different rating for the 300W or Dave is using a different driver.

If the drivers that Dave uses are as efficient as the BN12-300S (4), I think you could have run the Kinetix in 2 Ohm mode and still got more than plenty volume (my little Rumble will take the spackling off my walls and it's only 100W).

If the Genzler's are less colored than the Bf, then they will work great and you are supporting a very worthy brand and brand owner!

 

[agedhorse]

That is very informative!

I would have thought the Barefaced would be the least colored, so that helps me in my mental reference system.

I put a Celestion BN12-300S (4) in a 4 Ohm drivered Fender R100c combo and it's rated at 300W (it doesn't state if that is RMS).

It's unclear from Dave's website which Celestion driver he uses (obviously not two 4 Ohm drivers).

So either Celestion is using a different rating for the 300W or Dave is using a different driver.

If the drivers that Dave uses are as efficient as the BN12-300S (4), I think you could have run the Kinetix in 2 Ohm mode and still got more than plenty volume (my little Rumble will take the spackling off my walls and it's only 100W).

If the Genzler's are less colored than the Bf, then they will work great and you are supporting a very worthy brand and brand owner!

Generally, 4 ohm drivers are less sensitive than their 8 ohm counterparts, therefore are unlikely to get any louder.

 

[ihixulu]

the Super Twin is a bit easier to lift than the 36 pound Revsound as it has the same dual recessed side handles as the Genzler cab.

The SuperTwin doesn't have recessed handles.

 

[Hamrlik]

When I bought the RevSound, it was to pair with a Shuttle 3.0 amp. After its purchase, I discovered the Genzler Kinetix 800 and its tube tone coupled with a higher damping value made it perfect for a brand new honky tonk project that required precise control over note envelopes (think a muted effect with fast decay but without using a physical mute). On the downside, the amp's 800 watts @ 4 ohm exceeded the 400-watt rating on the RevSound so I elected to get the new Genzler cab rated at 700 watts to avoid worrying about over-excursion of the drivers. While the RevSound and Genzler cabs are about the same weight, the Genzler's dual side-mounted recessed handles gave it an edge in the easier-to-lift department -- a fairly significant edge with an easier, safer lift.

The Revsound wins hands down in the "uncolored tone" department. The Genzler is almost as uncolored but does have a bit of its own flavor. The Super Twin is even more colored in tone and well-suited to rock, blues, etc. And even at 40 pounds, the Super Twin is a bit easier to lift than the 36 pound Revsound as it has the same dual recessed side handles as the Genzler cab.

All three are excellent cabs and I would gig any of them. It so happens that having the Genzler amp and cab provides a more balanced solution that best fits my use case. Hope this helps.

Very helpful. Thank you.

 

[thegrimmbass]

Sorry, I missed this until I received your message.

No, that's not correct at both the top and bottom of the frequency sweep. I suspect that you have a vertical scale expansion in effect on your software. No way is the response -12dB at 50Hz and +10dB at 5kHz, and there is no failure that I can even dream of that could cause this.

Hey Andy, thanks for getting back to me! Yes i looks indeed very strange, but here are the exact recordings that i made of the same loop through the wiretap riff recorder, i which one can hear a respresentation of the graph my software showed pretty clearly.

Wiretap directly into interface:

Genz Benz DI Pre EQ

Genz Benz DI Post EQ FET, everything at noon. Gain at 11o'clock, Volume at full. this setting may have cause the slight hiss, but not the EQ change, right?

Same on the Tube Channel

For comparision heres the same on the GK 700RBII, no voicing filters, no boost, everything at noon.
Pre

Post

i'm very curious what you think of this.
Best Regards,
Darius

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

The SuperTwin doesn't have recessed handles.

You're right; it's been a year and half since I sold it and I forgot. But its two straps are on both sides, which makes it a much easier lift than the Revsound, which has one vertically-oriented side strap (and I had a custom top mounted recessed handle added to help with the lift). Anyway, the key point is the Genzler cab is a much better fit for my requirements and I'm very happy to have landed on the solution!

 

[Promit]

My Guitar Center used department BA410 needed a bit of TLC. Looked like a few different casters had been installed over the years, which Swiss cheesed the bottom a bit. Went through and plugged all the extra holes, touch up painted inside and out, then added nice new casters to match with proper length black screws. Had an idea along the way to copy the slant cab idea, so I 3D printed spacers for the front casters to add 4 degrees of angle. Worked out perfectly, and I prefer decoupling from the floor a bit.

I think I can design new rubber feet to angle the straight cabs upwards, so I’m gonna work on that pretty soon. I’ll make those files free once I figure them out.

 

[5StringPocket]

When I bought the RevSound, it was to pair with a Shuttle 3.0 amp. After its purchase, I discovered the Genzler Kinetix 800 and its tube tone coupled with a higher damping value made it perfect for a brand new honky tonk project that required precise control over note envelopes (think a muted effect with fast decay but without using a physical mute). On the downside, the amp's 800 watts @ 4 ohm exceeded the 400-watt rating on the RevSound so I elected to get the new Genzler cab rated at 700 watts to avoid worrying about over-excursion of the drivers. While the RevSound and Genzler cabs are about the same weight, the Genzler's dual side-mounted recessed handles gave it an edge in the easier-to-lift department -- a fairly significant edge with an easier, safer lift.

The Revsound wins hands down in the "uncolored tone" department. The Genzler is almost as uncolored but does have a bit of its own flavor. The Super Twin is even more colored in tone and well-suited to rock, blues, etc. And even at 40 pounds, the Super Twin is a bit easier to lift than the 36 pound Revsound as it has the same dual recessed side handles as the Genzler cab.

All three are excellent cabs and I would gig any of them. It so happens that having the Genzler amp and cab provides a more balanced solution that best fits my use case. Hope this helps.

How does the Genzler ULV-212T low end compare to the RevSound RS212 you had? The Celestion 12" neos seem to have good sensitivity but not as much low-end extension or power handling. I can't help but think the Kinetix 800/ULV-212T rig would have a more powerful and robust low-end, especially if you had to push it at a louder gig...