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Headstock Decal Etiquette

#41
Kael said:
Meh. You are in no way responsible for making others behave ethically. Put whatever sticker wherever you like. Don't be a lying d-bag when you sell the instrument. If the person you sell it to wants to be shady, that's on them.

Honestly, the argument to not put a decal on it because it is unethical holds about as much water as arguing that using a replacement neck with the Fender headstock design is unethical because someone might think it is a Fender due to that headstock. Ma. Larkey.

edit: When I've replaced necks in the past I've not bothered with putting a new decal on because I just don't care enough to bother with it. It isn't unethical however.
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interesting opinion regarding ethics. there is a parallel in the world of car collecting. some people create 'clones' of their favorite vintage cars using reproduction or counterfeit parts. they then sell the vehicle, claiming it to be a non-original 'clone'. a subsequent owner sells the 'clone' as an original. someone is defrauded and sues for damages. the person who did the original 'clone' modifications is held to be legally liable for part of the damages.

the current defense against this sort of liability is a notarized paper trail stating a 'clone' is such when sold.
 
#42
buldog5151bass said:
That's actually good, and funny. But what happens when you (or someone else who steals, buys, or inherits the bass) sells it?
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I'm planning on being buried with it!
Seriously, it's a decal...pretty obvious...and it wouldn't pass for a genuine Fender for a number of reasons.
I don't see anyone stealing it, and if I did sell it, the decal comes off before money changes hands.
 
#43
I'm slowly changing my mind on the decal etiquette thing. Like Bulldog said, "How often is there a "is this a REAL Fender" thread?"

There's too many people looking to make the big score on future collectability and value of a REAL Fender (good luck with that)... and too tempting for sellers to try to service that desire.

I have a small repair shop and several times a week, guys come through and sniff everything that LOOKS like it might be vintage-ish. And ...even before picking it up and playing it... the question is always the same, "Is this all original?"

Speculators... not players.

Nowdays, I'm making my own decals with my own logo that's stylistically similar to the old Fender script. I'll gladly tell anyone just exactly what the origins of the components are for any instrument in my posession, and let them decide on the desireability of the instrument for (and TO) themselves. And, again, I just wish people would quit worrying about what the NEXT owner of their basses wants.
 
#45
yodedude2 said:
interesting opinion regarding ethics. there is a parallel in the world of car collecting. some people create 'clones' of their favorite vintage cars using reproduction or counterfeit parts. they then sell the vehicle, claiming it to be a non-original 'clone'. a subsequent owner sells the 'clone' as an original. someone is defrauded and sues for damages. the person who did the original 'clone' modifications is held to be legally liable for part of the damages.

the current defense against this sort of liability is a notarized paper trail stating a 'clone' is such when sold.
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That makes sense with cars as there is already a paper trail produced every time a vehicle changes hands. Annotate everything to CYA. Not really a papertrail with most instrument sales. The onus for disclosure on future transactions falls to the people involved in those transactions.
 
#47
Kael said:
That makes sense with cars as there is already a paper trail produced every time a vehicle changes hands. Annotate everything to CYA. Not really a papertrail with most instrument sales. The onus for disclosure on future transactions falls to the people involved in those transactions.
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emphasis added by me. i am simply noting that ethically, there is a bit of grayness in this area, perhaps even moreso since there is no clear paper trail in most cases. you can't be ethically responsible for some else's actions...or can you? when is that thin line of enabling crossed? it does seem to be a concern in the general marketplace. caveat emptor.
 
#48
The only problem I have with re-branding something as a Fender (even if it is just a neck on a Frankenbass) is that even if YOU intend to fully disclose that it's not all real Fender parts, if you sell it down the road, a future owner who then decides to sell it might not be as scrupulous.

I have yet to do this, but I have often thought if I put together another Frankenbass or have the right parts, I might make a headstock logo that mimics Fender without being exact...so it might say something like "Fiender Persuasion Bass" instead of "Fender Precision." Something like that.
 
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#50
I bought my kid an epiphone less Paul that the guy went to great lengths to put in Gibson labels and a truss rod cover. Anyone musician playing it could tell the difference easily. I bought it represented as an epiphone though. Pretending an instrument is something it isn't is lamer than playing an epiphone. we should all impress people with our music, not the stickers on our equipment.
 
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#52
Crater said:
I disagree, because Fender licenses Warmoth to make necks with the trademarked Fender-shaped headstock. And by all accounts I've read, a Warmoth necks are as good as 'genuine' Fender necks, and I would presume Fender's licensing agreement with Warmoth requires their necks to maintain a certain level of quality.

For a non-vintange, non-collectible modern instrument that actually is a Fender, I don't think it's a big deal. For those buyer who care, they can always remove the neck and check the stamp.
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You can read the licensing agreement on Warmouth's website. An intersting read regarding quality standards and Warmouth branding requirements. Is there any real difference between a Warmouth Fender licensed neck and a "genuine" Fender neck made by a Japanese factory contracted to make MIJ Fenders?

If it really matters to a future buyer, they just need to pull the neck and see the Warmouth logo.
 
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#53
DigitalMan said:
Assuming I am not selling nor trying to deceive anyone, consider the following scenario.

Say that I start with a Fender Jazz bass. Now I want to replace the neck, but Fender doesn't offer the options I like and therefore I get a custom "licensed" neck from Warmoth. At this point is it ok to add a Fender water slide decal? It's not a pure Fender anymore, but then again, neither is any bass that's had pickups swapped, etc. you know what I mean.

Ok, so assuming that's ok with some folks and perhaps not others. Now I've got a parts bass that's mostly Fender with the logo on the headstock. I decide I want to replace the body. Do I have to go back and remove the headstock decal? Is it still a Fender in spirit?

What if instead I start with the body swap and keep the original neck that of course has the Fender logo?

Now, in theory the parts I'm talking about are Fender licensed and potentially of equal or higher quality. I'm starting with a bass that has certain issues and I don't want to address them all at once, and also view this as a chance to add some personal touches to it. Is it like a classic car where so long as you replace the parts with OEM spec and licensed then it's all good?

This is an academic question, I know. I'm certainly not really looking for advice on what to do with my bass. It's mine and am fine with whatever I choose. I just think it's an intriguing thought. Does the journey matter when a bass transforms from a brand model to an complete parts bass? Why in particular is there a mystique about the Fender logo? Why is this even something people might care one way or another about?
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Warmoth is licensed to make fender parts so I don't see how anyone could complain about that unless someone is selling a bass and being deceiving.

I swear if I keep seeing all these people complain about putting fender logos on parts basses I'm going to cut a branch off a tree put fender logo on it and put it on a guitar stand at every show. News flash!!! You can buy actual fender basses (not squires) used for like $300 folks. They aren't exactly Foderas
 
#54
yodedude2 said:
emphasis added by me. i am simply noting that ethically, there is a bit of grayness in this area, perhaps even moreso since there is no clear paper trail in most cases. you can't be ethically responsible for some else's actions...or can you? when is that thin line of enabling crossed? it does seem to be a concern in the general marketplace. caveat emptor.
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If we extend the idea that you are resposible for the actions of others in the future, where does it end? Should we hold warmoth or any other after market neck producer liable for someone attempting to sell a parts bass as a fender if they use their parts? Should we hold Fender themselves liable for licensing their headstock design and allowing said necks to be produced?

I disagree with the assertion that anyone should be held accountable for the unscrupulous actions of others.

PS: insert whatever smiley is needed to convey that I am viewing this as a cordial intellectual discussion rather than my replies being argumentative
 
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#56
You should put a Gibson decal on it...
Jon-Stewart-mind-blown.gif
 
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#57
Kael said:
If we extend the idea that you are resposible for the actions of others in the future, where does it end? Should we hold warmoth or any other after market neck producer liable for someone attempting to sell a parts bass as a fender if they use their parts? Should we hold Fender themselves liable for licensing their headstock design and allowing said necks to be produced?

I disagree with the assertion that anyone should be held accountable for the unscrupulous actions of others.

PS: insert whatever smiley is needed to convey that I am viewing this as a cordial intellectual discussion rather than my replies being argumentative
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i know, it's like those people that are present at a murder being considered legally as guilty as the one that pulled the trigger.
 
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#58
bolophonic said:
Make your own logo.
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Absolutely. I also agree with Andruca, I don't understand the obsession with Fender headstock logos. I don't want a Fender logo on my Warmoth Fender-licensed builds. Why not? Because my Warmoth builds look cooler than anything Fender builds. :)

Thanks to the advice of some other forum members, I designed my own logo and had Pololu laser cut some from stainless steel. Inexpensive and way more "boutique-ish" than a 5-cent waterslide decal.
 
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