Help me understand

[Wasnex]

IMO, IME, the answer to most of these types of questions (that is to say, mic vs DI, sending the sound man “my sound”, amp as monitor/amp as tone creator, pre EQ/post EQ, pedals to FOH or not, getting the “pure” sound of the bass....whatever the Hell that is...and the BIG one...”the audience can’t tell the difference”) ALL of it, has an annoying tendency to simply ignore a very basic fact.

The sound you hear will affect how you play. How you play will then affect the sound you hear and so on. So many people like to pretend that performing a bass part is this isolated experience in a vacuum. You simply play the part. Whatever tone you hear, whether it’s distorted chaos or reggae rumble or clacky noise...that doesn’t matter, you’ll just play the bass line and all you need is something to make it loud enough to hear. All the sound man needs is some sort of mythical “pure” tone that can then be sculpted to suit his vision of what bass is supposed to sound like.

If you have any musical sensitivity at all (and if you don’t, then you really should do something else), what you hear WILL affect how you play. Sure, being a pro means (to an extent) rising above this and delivering a professional performance (almost) no matter what, but even the best pros are human, and humans are affected by things that their senses perceive.

OK rant off...what was the question again?

I totally agree and this creates one of those compromises I discussed in my last post. The audio tech will often want the band to reduce their stage level to clean up sound for the audience. But the band needs to be loud enough to hear themselves play. Often if the musicians play as loud as they want, the audio tech has no control at all. IMHO the best that can be done is a compromise. Hopefully the band can turn down a little and have enough discipline to maintain the level. The audio tech will have to make do with excessive stage wash and draw on his/her bag of tricks.

Part of the problem here is I believe everyone wants to hear themselves about 6-10dB louder than everyone else. Unfortunately we usually don't play spaces where it is possible for everyone to get the desired 6-10dB.

The inverse square rule is an important thing to understand here. For each doubling of distance, sound diminishes by 6dB. You can use aiming to help with this as mids and high frequencies are directional. But lower frequencies tend to be omni-directional. So if you have a guitarist who cranks up the lows standing next to a bass player, the bassists is going to have a hard time hearing. If possible, have the guitarist reduce the lows and have the bassist setup on the other side of the stage.

Many guitarists hate the sound coming off the front of their amp, as this is where all the mids and highs are. Instead they aim the front of the amp away from their ears and then crank up so they can hear the nice warm sound coming out of the back of the amp and bouncing off the walls. Unfortunately, although this sounds great to the guitarists, it makes it impossible for anyone else to get their 6-10dB. Good luck convincing someone who is committed to this technique to change their ways.

 

[Wasnex]

I read that as "I have a lot of control over what I hear but relatively little control over what the audience hears, so if I have to chose what to care more about I choose to care more about what I hear." And leave the rest to the engineer.

The point is the audio tech only has control if you give it to him/her. If you are too loud there is nothing the audio tech can do accept mix louder. If the mix is too loud, the person paying for the service is not going to be happy, so the audio tech may choose to let the mix sound awful because you chose to focus on what you want to hear rather than what is best for the big picture.

 

[David Jayne]

The point is the audio tech only has control if you give it to him/her. If you are too loud there is nothing the audio tech can do accept mix louder. If the mix is too loud, the person paying for the service is not going to be happy, so the audio tech may choose to let the mix sound awful because you chose to focus on what you want to hear rather than what is best for the big picture.

Agree, maybe I read that other guy wrong. On my gigs the only things I could do to wreck the mix are to be too loud, out of tune or drunk. I don't do those things.

 

[ArtechnikA]

... I am sometimes is DIed and sometimes carrying the room with my amp, and am trying to reconcile the discrepancies in those two sounds.

I use an IR-based CabSim in my DI, with EQ and compression in front of that. My amps, when I use them, are pretty much set flat - they obviously get their signal through a no-CabSim path. There is therefore little difference between tone in DI, Pre- or Post-EQ. This also allows consistency for those in the audience getting a mix of the onstage and FOH sound.

 

[Hounddog409]

There is an enormous selection of amps and cabs out in the market right now. The laws of competition dictate that every amp or cabinet needs to have something that makes it different or 'stand out' in order to appeal to a particular cohort of players. People describe a "Mesa" sound or "Ampeg" or "Aguilar" sound, etc, or some amps or cabs have particular features, like the voicing control on the Genzler amps, for example. Some amp designers even aim to stand out by making amps totally uncolored and neutral sounding.

When performing any gig that has FOH, the bass amp is essentially relegated to monitoring duty. The FOH engineer needs a sound that can be easily sculpted, EQ-wise at least, to sit appropriately in the mix. Given the different EQ needs of the house vs the stage, it makes sense then to send a DI signal that is Pre-EQ. I know this is not a universal solution but one opted for by many bassists and sound guys.

As I understand it, in most amps a pre-EQ signal essentially goes straight from the input jack to the DI, bypassing the circuitry that 'colors' or gives the particular 'flavor' of that amp to the signal (not to mention the organic tone shaping effect of the speaker that is essential to capturing the essence of many signature bass tones). Looking at the schematic for the Mesa D-800, for example, this seems to be the case. (Please correct me if I am wrong on these last two points) Assuming this is correct, coloration of the basic sound to the ears of any listener hearing only the sound from FOH is caused by the bass, any effects between and bass and amp such as a compressor, and finally by any inherent tone and EQ shaping done at the mixing board. The bass amp itself is just a conduit to the mixing board. The exception to this would be the transformers in certain DIs, such as the Jensen found in some high end bass amps like Demeter, or Cinemag (REDDI). Even then, there's not nearly as many options for transformer based coloration relative to the inherent 'flavor' of the many amps on the market.

To most of our audience then, our amplifier is essentially the PA system - something while not perfectly flat, is designed with transparency in sound amplification, not coloration.

My main question to you is this: given all of these factors, why do so many of us obsess over these nuances in tone of these different amps if that element of the sound doesn't make it to the audience?

Before you judge what I've written know that the situation I described is my own. I've just recently become really irked by it - I generally like the sound I get from my amp, but why wouldn't it be preferable to have a sound that is as close as possible to what the audience is hearing?

In light of all this, I understand why many players are moving to ampless setups and why speaker sims have gained in popularity. It's a reliable way to get that speaker coloration and baked-in amp tone to the FOH without the hassle of mic bleed and disparate EQ settings. Particularly for guys who do a fair amount of recording, especially with plug-ins, I can see why one would want to get that tone out into a live setting.

Thanks for reading. What is your take on all of this?

99% of my gigs do not have FOH, sound system, or sound guy.

We provide our own sound. Drums and bass are not sent to our PA system, only vocals and guitars. Mainly to make sure they are not too loud.

So theres that.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

There is an enormous selection of amps and cabs out in the market right now. The laws of competition dictate that every amp or cabinet needs to have something that makes it different or 'stand out' in order to appeal to a particular cohort of players. People describe a "Mesa" sound or "Ampeg" or "Aguilar" sound, etc, or some amps or cabs have particular features, like the voicing control on the Genzler amps, for example. Some amp designers even aim to stand out by making amps totally uncolored and neutral sounding.

When performing any gig that has FOH, the bass amp is essentially relegated to monitoring duty. The FOH engineer needs a sound that can be easily sculpted, EQ-wise at least, to sit appropriately in the mix. Given the different EQ needs of the house vs the stage, it makes sense then to send a DI signal that is Pre-EQ. I know this is not a universal solution but one opted for by many bassists and sound guys.

As I understand it, in most amps a pre-EQ signal essentially goes straight from the input jack to the DI, bypassing the circuitry that 'colors' or gives the particular 'flavor' of that amp to the signal (not to mention the organic tone shaping effect of the speaker that is essential to capturing the essence of many signature bass tones). Looking at the schematic for the Mesa D-800, for example, this seems to be the case. (Please correct me if I am wrong on these last two points) Assuming this is correct, coloration of the basic sound to the ears of any listener hearing only the sound from FOH is caused by the bass, any effects between and bass and amp such as a compressor, and finally by any inherent tone and EQ shaping done at the mixing board. The bass amp itself is just a conduit to the mixing board. The exception to this would be the transformers in certain DIs, such as the Jensen found in some high end bass amps like Demeter, or Cinemag (REDDI). Even then, there's not nearly as many options for transformer based coloration relative to the inherent 'flavor' of the many amps on the market.

To most of our audience then, our amplifier is essentially the PA system - something while not perfectly flat, is designed with transparency in sound amplification, not coloration.

My main question to you is this: given all of these factors, why do so many of us obsess over these nuances in tone of these different amps if that element of the sound doesn't make it to the audience?

Before you judge what I've written know that the situation I described is my own. I've just recently become really irked by it - I generally like the sound I get from my amp, but why wouldn't it be preferable to have a sound that is as close as possible to what the audience is hearing?

In light of all this, I understand why many players are moving to ampless setups and why speaker sims have gained in popularity. It's a reliable way to get that speaker coloration and baked-in amp tone to the FOH without the hassle of mic bleed and disparate EQ settings. Particularly for guys who do a fair amount of recording, especially with plug-ins, I can see why one would want to get that tone out into a live setting.

Thanks for reading. What is your take on all of this?

Hmmm... I have a few comments:

• I virtually NEVER send a pre-EQ signal to a board. That is primarily because I don't trust most soundboard technicians to sculpt their EQ to match my sound. So I send them a post-EQ DI signal. I do depend upon them to compensate for any room anomalies, but if they haven't done so by the end of the first set, I'll adjust my amp's EQ to compensate (my amp has three semi-parametric EQ's that will let me cut or boost pretty much any frequency I desire.

I use a Passive MIA Jazz Bass with Maple neck and normally run both my volume knobs and the tone knob all the way up. I now use LaBella tape-wound flats although I used to run Blue Steel and then Black Beauties on it. I also typically run my amp with about 3-clicks of boost at ~250Hz and all the rest of the EQ flat. With either DNA or Eden amps/cabs, that gives me "my" sound. The little bit of boost ~250Hz gives me good definition in the mix and plenty of thump in the chest. If the room has some acoustic anomalies, I can compensate for that, but my intent is to get my overall sound to be flat with a little bit of boost at ~250Hz.

If I'm forced to plug into the board without my amp, I'll use my WTDI, which is a DI box with a built-in Eden preamp and adjustable compressor. Can't boost ~250Hz on that DI box as the mids toggle between either 500Hz and 2.2KHz. So I toggle it to 500Hz and add a little boost. Both 250Hz and 500Hz give a good sound and add definition (clarity) in the mix, but I prefer to boost ~250Hz when I have the option.

I do NOT depend upon the sound tech to sculpt the sound of my bass. I DO depend upon him to reinforce MY sound so everyone else is hearing what I want them to hear. This is not the sound guys bass sound...it is mine and I am very protective of it. Having said that, I make sure I let those sound techs know what I expect AND I tell them how I'm getting it. If they know what they are doing, they are fine with that and will just compensate for the acoustics of the room, not the tone of my bass. Most boards that have a "low-mids" control on your channel, are not set up to boost specific frequencies of low-mids. I can do that with my amp so I do.

• You also misunderstand a bit how a Pre-EQ DI signal works. It doesn't "necessarily go directly from the bass input to the balanced out. It goes through a lot of electronics besides that, it just bypasses the EQ section. In an Eden Hybrid amp, that is a very important distinction because those Eden hybrid amps use a tube in the impedance-matching circuitry operating within very specific parameters to add the warmth to their sound that they are known for. Bypass that and you'd lose that warmth.

That is not bypassed, so you still have that warmth to the sound. I also have an Eden Nemesis amp which does not have a hybrid preamp but rather an entirely FET front end, and there is definitely a noticeable difference in the sound between the two. It does not have the warmth that my WT amp does.

That signal also has to go through the gain section to get the best gain level to use with the specific bass you have plugged in. The correct gain setting will get you a strong, clear, extremely low distortion signal to send to the power section of the amp, or out the DI. Eden and DNA amps also have DI level controls in most of their amps. If the signal is a little weaker than what the sound board needs, they can adjust the DI level without influencing anything else. Now days quite a few amps do that.

So although you have the general idea correct that you are trying to send an uncolored signal to the board, it definitely does NOT just go from the input jack to the DI output. Having said that, perhaps you may find one that does but that would be really unusual.
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So considering the above, it is very important to me to have an amp and cab that will give me the sound I want. And, I expect any sound tech to reinforce that sound NOT reinvent it. Additionally when I play outdoor festivals I prefer that they mic the cab so they know they are getting the sound that I want them to have. It's simple to run the mic on one channel and the DI on another one. Recording studios that are either big enough or have enough isolation booths to keep bleed over between tracks from being a problem will often take a DI signal and mic the cab. Then they can balance the sound they get between the two of them to get a good sound for the recording.

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Also, I think you may be overestimating how prevalent "ampless" bassist are. If you look at that TB poll that @Passinwind mentioned, out of 635 votes when I just checked, 85.8% responded that they HAD to use an amp. I'm one of those. Throughout most of the gigs, the guitars and sometimes drums will run through our own PA or an FOH system, and I am expected to cover my part with my own amp and cab(s). My DNA and Eden gear is more than up to it, so I have no problem with that.

​

 

[Wasnex]

• I virtually NEVER send a pre-EQ signal to a board. That is primarily because I don't trust most soundboard technicians to sculpt their EQ to match my sound. So I send them a post-EQ DI signal. I do depend upon them to compensate for any room anomalies, but if they haven't done so by the end of the first set, I'll adjust my amp's EQ to compensate.
​

​

I am curious how you can tell if the audio tech has done a good job compensating for room anomalies? I have done many gigs where my bass sounded awful onstage; but when I asked audience members for feedback, they said it sounded great.

Sound tends to bounce around and come together at odd angles that causes comb filtering. If you are in a node where the waves of a certain frequency comes together in phase, there will be a strong peak in the frequency response. Likewise if you are in an anti-node where the waves come together out of phase, there will be a null in the frequency response.

These nodes and anti-nodes tend to be localized, so it might be somewhat effective for you to adjust your amps EQ since you are standing in the node or antinode, but applying the correction to the entire FOH mix can cause the opposite of what you intend.

 

[agedhorse]

Some of you guys obviously haven't worked with a pro at FOH. When you do, all these petty trust issues will go away and you can focus on playing your damn bass and not micro-managing the sound guy. Speaking of this, what do you think would be the result of a 5 or 6 piece band all micro-managing the sound guy, and what about other acts on the bill? Trust me, the more you micro-manage, the LESS the sound guy will care because he knows instinctively that it's not going to matter anyway. Also, if you give FOH a signal that's been heavily eq'd for your bass cabinet, it will not automatically sound the same since the FOH system is quite different than your bass cabinet... AND the system couples to the room very differently too.

Regarding the PRE-DI signal going through a lot of electronics... while it does depend on the architecture of the amp, MOST amps have VERY LITTLE TO NO additional electronics between the input jack and the DI output except what's necessary to buffer and generate the balanced output signal. Where there are additional electronics involved, they are usually there to achieve something specific to the designer's intent.

Most boards that have a "low-mids" control on your channel, are not set up to boost specific frequencies of low-mids.

Maybe at the bottom of the food chain with those "$99 special" boards, but where do you think the sweepable mids circuits came from in the first place? They started out on mixing consoles, and most do in fact have the ability to sweep the low mids. That said, when you have a system with "substantial capacity" (some of you pro audio guys know what I am getting at here), often (not always) the last thing that the mix needs is to boost the bass in the 250Hz range. Since you are not in the audience acoustic space, you have zero idea what your bass sounds like from the stage, what it sounds like on stage may be very different than what it sounds like in the house due to the acoustics of the auditorium itself and that's the space that the mix is being generated for.

A good sound guy will listen to your bass on stage, see what you are trying to achieve as a tone in your acoustic space and then translate it to the acoustic space that he has to contend with. On big systems with lots of sub capacity (like an outdoor rig), it's not uncommon for the wash off the subs to cause a player to cut the low end around 60-100Hz) to compensate for the perception of the wash which results in a thin tone sent to FOH if sent post eq.

 

[BarfanyShart]

That's kinda why at a certain point I stopped using anything other than my little Bassman 100. It had the best line out of any of my amps, and it worked good as an onstage monitor in the kick back position behind me and the drummer. Never needed anything else unless it was an outdoor festival thing, and then they usually had some big Ampeg stack available to use.

 

[nnnnnn]

The laws of competition dictate that every amp or cabinet needs to have something that makes it different or 'stand out' in order to appeal to a particular cohort of players.

That may be right in theory, but in practice I don't think every amp or cabinet actually does have something that makes it stands out. A lot of gear is pretty samey.

 

[Manticore]

I went with a Kemper a few years ago and simply don't feel the need to go back. I consistently get a better sound on stage without a bass rig, regardless of whether I'm playing festival-sized stages or intimate clubs. The Kemper is far easier and less expensive to transport. It can be set up in seconds. It travels well on planes. I can dial in any amp/cab combination I want in seconds. Many of the guitarists I play with use a Kemper over one of their prized vintage amps for the same reasons. Sound crews consistently state they prefer using a modeler or DI over having to deal with the issues associated with a dedicated bass rig.

I honestly do not understand all the negativity I see on this forum relative to working with the FOH (or monitoring) sound crew. My experience has been they are just as dedicated to their craft as the musicians on stage; I can't remember the last time I had a serious issue with the sound crew.

 

[frankie5string]

This really depends on the show. I always send an unaffected signal through a DI to the board.
I always get compliments on my tone. My on-stage amp tone is there not only to monitor, but to "feel good" to me on stage.

A few times I've taken my bass out in front of the stage during sound check and listened to the PA and what the FOH people are doing to my bass signal. It doesn't seem to matter if I'm playing my Yamaha TRB or my Lakland, they always seem to make me sound good.

My fingers have a very midrange sound - that may have something to do with it. Also, I almost always use an active bass.

FOH gets a midrangey sound and then they divide it out to the subs for bottom end. Whenever I hear my bass through those Adamson, EAW, Community, or the new EV arrays mains+subs I am amazed at how it sounds. The bass "control" they have in those systems is stunningly good.
Actually, I've been kind of excited lately about various sound people and systems I get to run through. I trust those sound people and they almost always deliver.

 

[mikewalker]

....
My main question to you is this: given all of these factors, why do so many of us obsess over these nuances in tone of these different amps if that element of the sound doesn't make it to the audience?...

Simply this: the nuance of TONE is to make ME play my best - me hearing 'the sound I like to play through' results in the PA system presenting the optimal selection of notes, timing, dynamics, "ensemble groove", etc to the AUDIENCE, who actually appreciate those qualities much more than any gradations of bass guitar timbre...

 

[Rip Van Dan]

​

I am curious how you can tell if the audio tech has done a good job compensating for room anomalies? I have done many gigs where my bass sounded awful onstage; but when I asked audience members for feedback, they said it sounded great.

Sound tends to bounce around and come together at odd angles that causes comb filtering. If you are in a node where the waves of a certain frequency comes together in phase, there will be a strong peak in the frequency response. Likewise if you are in an anti-node where the waves come together out of phase, there will be a null in the frequency response.

These nodes and anti-nodes tend to be localized, so it might be somewhat effective for you to adjust your amps EQ since you are standing in the node or antinode, but applying the correction to the entire FOH mix can cause the opposite of what you intend.

Well I can't tell that it's perfect everywhere but I have a wireless and I make a point of walking the room while we are playing our sound check before starting and I'll again walk the room near the end of the second set when the place is about as full as it's going to get. People can suck up a lot of sound! So it may not be perfect, but it's pretty good.

As I mentioned I primarily run my EQ flat with a little boost at 250Hz. I used to absolutely dial in the room for every place we played, but I don't really do it like that much anymore. Rather when we do our sound check if something sounds too boomy or too brittle, I'll find that frequency and fix it instead of going through the "dial in the room" routine I used to do. I don't usually check right up against a wall because you get hit with the sound from the stage and the sound from the bounce off the back wall all at the same time.

I used to always dial it in because I could check it pretty quickly with the one semi-parametric on my Eden Nemesis amp. I'd just turn the boost up to 3 o'clock and have someone slowly move the frequency selector for me while I played a run that went from low on my E string up to at least the octave on my G string.

That put about 10db of boost on each frequency as it was rolled by. If one of them all of a sudden got louder than the rest (it would just pop!), then I applied some cut there to pull it back in line. If one of them all of a sudden got quieter than the rest, then I would make a note to add some boost there. With my WT500/800, I now have 3 semi-parametrics and each one covers an octave of sound with overlap on the ends. So it takes longer but has more granularity to where any problems are, plus I can fix more than one if two or more of them are a problem.

I used to do this as far from my amp as my cord would take me, but with my wireless I can now go as far as 200+ feet. So I usually check it at the back end of the dance floor and first row of tables first. Got to make sure the dancers have good sounds so they'll keep dancing! If it's a wide room I'll move behind the last tables and move back and forth. It's not perfect but it does make a difference.

Now @Wasnex you are far more knowledgeable than most sound techs I've dealt with and I would indeed trust you to make the best choices for the house. So, I'd tell you that I have dialed in a little boost in the low mids at ~250Hz and set everything else flat and then leave everything up to you. You could use your headphones on the board to hear the sound from my DI that I'm after and then make any adjustments you need to in order to reinforce that sound in the FOH. I've just had too many folks who didn't know what they were doing mess up sound when they had complete control over it, so I apologize for being a bit skeptical of soundboard techs and my insistence on NOT sending a pre-EQ signal to FOH. Some of them are soundboard techs in name only and some are very skilled.

 

[drumvsbass]

Do you sculpt 'your tone' to fit the band, in every room, and every situation? Or it !!!YOUR TONE!!! that must be absolutely represented in the F.O.H. and you know your tone by the absolute position of the knobs on your amp!!!

If the sound guy doesn't want the EQ from your amp, maybe your tone sucks??? Taking the bass players terrible EQ choices and compounding them through a PA is not a good idea.

Sorry for the sass. Too many times I see guys who have a subsonic sludge mess for a tone demanding that there be only a mic on their cab and wonder why they aren't in the mix a thousand times louder than the kick drum like the guy from TOOL.

*A method that works for me to get a tone that I am ultimately in control of, I send F.O.H. a line from my head (Ampeg PF50T) post EQ (and transformer for the nerds) and have a starting EQ (decidedly upper mid heavy) put that through the P.A. and then sculpt to the room accordingly (add appropriate amounts of treble and bass). It works every time because it's situational.*
(Caveat, this is an Ampeg amp with both the ultra bass and treble on through dual 15's, no tweeter, and PBasses with Flats and a tone control set to taste, try this with a GK, a stingray with steel rounds, and cabs with tweeters and it will probably (definitely) leave you deaf.)

*I'm sure many will chime in to say how this method sucks. They're right, it does. You should definitely not use it.
It's like slicing tomatoes with a Samurai sword, it's totally awesome if you know what you're doing, but you'll definitely lose a limb if you don't know what your doing, and it's rarely necessary to use your best Katana when a wakizashi will do.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Wow, why play out and subject an audience (and sound guy) to this?

I'm guessing he may have overstated this a bit. I can totally understand the bit about, "I need to sound good to myself to enjoy playing music". Most bass players are far more critical of their own sound than their audiences are.
Audiences typically know if a band sounds good or not. They may not necessarily know why unless the vocals are a problem. Then they tell you, "I can't hear the singer above the instruments". Once in a while they'll say, "your guitar player's mic is way too loud" (of course, that never happens with a singing bass player!). Having said that, it's always nice to have someone come up and compliment you on your playing or on your sound. It's particularly nice when another bass player comes up and compliments the sound you're putting out.

 

[red_rhino]

if you're going for best/most groupies, you're duking it out with the drummer.

Clearly, you are playing with a different class of drummer than I. Typically, the drummer in the bands I've been in get our "hand me downs."

I virtually NEVER send a pre-EQ signal to a board. That is primarily because I don't trust most soundboard technicians to sculpt their EQ to match my sound.

I'm just the opposite. I always offer the sound tech "Pre EQ or post?" for the DI. They always choose pre. And I know that's what they will choose, but I like to make them think it's their choice and that I'm working with them on my sound. That's because I know I have absolutely no control over what happens in that situation, and whether I go pre or post, the sound tech can make me sound great or sound like a box of wet rags. When you have FOH, you are not in control.

But to the original point: beyond just a "baked in" sound, one of the things that's important to me in a live situations is the feature set of controls and/or EQ that allow me to sculpt the sound to my liking, especially in those situations where I don't have FOH and I'm responsible for my own sound. The use of on-board high-pass filters (so I can take the boom out of the room), is something that I don't have one on my current rig, but it may be the reason I choose the next rig. It seems like such an obvious thing for bass players; you'd think they would be as common on bass amps as reverb is on a guitar amp.

 

[LowActionHero]

I have yet to skip bringing an Amp, so my Amp usually carries the room. I'm usually tapped into the PA just in case, and our sound guy adds it if needed, but even then it's DI-ed from my Amp so it should be 'my sound'.

Our last gig was a tiny stage and I mentioned going ampless and taking a DI off my pedalboard, he looked horrified...

 

[QweziRider]

...why do so many of us obsess over these nuances in tone of these different amps if that element of the sound doesn't make it to the audience?

A couple reasons for myself:

1) I'm not generally in bands high up the food chain enough to demand what my sound from FOH is (I've read Geddy would often get with the FOH guy before soundcheck to go over the previous performance and both make adjustments to Ged's liking for the upcoming show). So unless the FOH is a total screw-up and I can hear it, I don't often care what's coming out of his/her world. I've probably made suggestions only a couple times in my life because I've been blessed to generally not have bad FOH - as far as I can hear from stage.

2) That said, I still want to hear what I want to hear coming from behind me. Wedges have never been what I want to hear (they've been adequate many times depending on the genre, but not ideal), so yes, I like to "obsess" over those nuances. It positively affects our performance to hear what we need, I think. So for that, alone, I'll happily tweak away for that perfect sound. Even in IEM and ampless gigs, I'll still send a signal from a preamp to my ear transmitter so I can have what I want and FOH can have a pre-EQ sound.

 

[Pilgrim]

Just for another vote, I don't run through the PA in my band...or in any of the other bands I've played in for the past few years. The OP is making an assumption that isn't valid for many of the gigging bands today.

It's my amp, set up the way I want it. So all the "why the concern about your amp" is self explanatory. And there are plenty of bands that DO NOT run the bass through anything but an on-stage amp.

The answer is, my amp IS the bass sound. There's no bass signal in the FOH or PA. I'm in charge of it, and I care how it sounds.