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How to fire a guy who, without a doubt, will not take it well?

#101
Oh trust me, I'm very well versed in copyright law (I work part time in broadcasting, and have made multiple derivative works from public domain material for my local Public Access station[now defunct :( ). I didn't mean "expire" in the classic sense, I meant for interest in them to wane or our original pressings sell out. I'm 100% certain that recreating any of the music he created with us is well beyond his ability, or even aspiration- he's attempted to do so with a side project he formed to capitalize on all the gigs we've turned down (small clubs, restaurants, etc) and has never been asked back for a 2nd show, nor ever had the same band lineup twice. The unique instrumentation + the one of a kind configuration of this particular "lead instrument" truly makes this work inimitable- it's really more of a recording project than for performance.
 
#102
Edward G. said:
Have your lawyer do it. You need this to be DONE.
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^Best advice by far^

You need to think about both the immediate needs of firing him and the long term needs of dealing with his earlier claim to the band and (I'm assuming) the band's name and writers royalties etc.

If douchebag will go for it, I'd try to buy him off and out of the band - beg, borrow or steal the required funds and send the guy off.
 
#103
bigbasscat1 said:
If douchebag will go for it, I'd try to buy him off and out of the band - beg, borrow or steal the required funds and send the guy off.
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Sod THAT. You don't pay somebody to just go away. Pay him what he's entitled to (if anything) and tell him his services are no longer required or wanted.

At best, I've found employment in this industry to be "at will." If you're not wanted, you're out. Bring out the brass pair and show him the door.
 
#104
bigbasscat1 said:
^Best advice by far^

You need to think about both the immediate needs of firing him and the long term needs of dealing with his earlier claim to the band and (I'm assuming) the band's name and writers royalties etc.

If douchebag will go for it, I'd try to buy him off and out of the band - beg, borrow or steal the required funds and send the guy off.
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Put it in writing and get his signature!
 
#107
Flyingfrets said:
Sod THAT. You don't pay somebody to just go away. Pay him what he's entitled to (if anything) and tell him his services are no longer required or wanted.

At best, I've found employment in this industry to be "at will." If you're not wanted, you're out. Bring out the brass pair and show him the door.
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I've found out that in today's world, legal CYA counts for more than any set of balls, brass or otherwise.

If I read the op correctly, the odd man out here "owns" the band - better have everything lined up and documented if the other players want to walk off with the band's name and material. Sitting in an interrogatory and explaining that you dumped the guy because he's a douchebag but failed to get him to sign off his rights beforehand might well end up in actual and punitive damages.
 
#108
All this talk of lawyers and damages... Let's remember this is a psychedelic rock band, even less likely to be a profitable entity than a regular rock originals band. If there was no kickstarter fund there'd probably be no money to fight over. Sadly, there is that fund...
 
#110
Whatever you do stay professional during the process. These are business decisions and should be treated as such. Subtle hints can be things like removing his name from all websites and band references to start with. This should give him a hint. I'd be blunt with him and there is no need to give a reason other than there has been a shift in things with his departure. You can always leave the door open (although I'm thinking you'd rather bite off your arm than say this) and mention that there may be future "guest" appearances. This might let him "save face" with others in the area. Having an attorney do your dirty work might be too cold, but it might be good to run the facts by one first.
Good luck!
 
#111
I would think if his playing, idea's, creative input is still being used on your recordings It's still in his favor. You need to "NOT have ANY" of his work on your recordings ect.So what if he's a" founding member" When he moved away he was "OUT" !!!!!!!! I would just NOT use any of his work,And say when he moved the band moved on!!
 
#115
guy n. cognito said:
While there is no doubt that this guy has issues, you have handled this extremely poorly. Not only does it sound like that you've never directly addressed his issues and given him a chance to fix his behavior, but you've used HIS guitar parts and HIS image to promote the band, even when you were planning to kick him out. You were even willing to accept a sizable chunk of money from his mom, then have the gall to be mad when you don't get it.

Stop being passive aggressive and fire him now. Furthermore, stop using his name and image in your merchandising and advertising. Finally, either compensate him for his guitar parts, or rerecord new parts yourself.

He's not going to take it well, but, quite honestly, it's somewhat justified.
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Never, EVER listen to this poster.

Just tell the guy you don't ever want to see him again. Show him a weapon if you have to. Make it clear he is NOT safe around any of you.

He is a woman abuser.

NO REAL MAN puts up with women abusers.
 
#116
mellowinman said:
Never, EVER listen to this poster.

Just tell the guy you don't ever want to see him again. Show him a weapon if you have to. Make it clear he is NOT safe around any of you.

He is a woman abuser.

NO REAL MAN puts up with women abusers.
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I think that while his treatment of his girlfriend is despicable, it's not necessarily the main issue as far as the band is concerned.

And threatening someone with a weapon is not really smart. That's a crime in itself, and likely to just complicate the situation.

I thought you were supposed to be mellow?
 
#117
lowfreq33 said:
I think that while his treatment of his girlfriend is despicable, it's not necessarily the main issue as far as the band is concerned.

And threatening someone with a weapon is not really smart. That's a crime in itself, and likely to just complicate the situation.

I thought you were supposed to be mellow?
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There is no reason for you to think that.

And, as I said, that he will slap his girlfriend makes him lower than scum, and directly affects the working relationship. It identifies cowardice. When someone is a woman beater, it is ALWAYS smart to show them that you are more aggressive than they are, because cowards do not like to be dealt with by real men.

A coward will run every time.

I am speaking from experience, and merely suggesting how I would handle it. Each person will choose their own way. I just grow tired of people using the Band Management forum to assert their own superiority over the OP, instead of trying to HELP.

Let the guy know that if he is in your life, he will get hurt. He has the option of NOT being in your life.
 
#118
mellowinman said:
There is no reason for you to think that.

And, as I said, that he will slap his girlfriend makes him lower than scum, and directly affects the working relationship. It identifies cowardice. When someone is a woman beater, it is ALWAYS smart to show them that you are more aggressive than they are, because cowards do not like to be dealt with by real men.

A coward will run every time.

I am speaking from experience, and merely suggesting how I would handle it. Each person will choose their own way. I just grow tired of people using the Band Management forum to assert their own superiority over the OP, instead of trying to HELP.

Let the guy know that if he is in your life, he will get hurt. He has the option of NOT being in your life.
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I kind of got into this late and am not going to hang around long but by you telling the OP to "show him a weapon" that is not helping him at all. That could get real ugly and end bad for the OP in allot of ways...FWIW don't listen to your posts.
 
#119
mellowinman said:
Never, EVER listen to this poster.

Just tell the guy you don't ever want to see him again. Show him a weapon if you have to. Make it clear he is NOT safe around any of you.

He is a woman abuser.

NO REAL MAN puts up with women abusers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, don't follow the logical, legal advice. Instead, suspend logic, whip out all the machismo you can muster, and start making threats. It's a great idea.
 
#120
lowfreq33 said:
I think that while his treatment of his girlfriend is despicable, it's not necessarily the main issue as far as the band is concerned.

And threatening someone with a weapon is not really smart. That's a crime in itself, and likely to just complicate the situation.

I thought you were supposed to be mellow?
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Heh, he's as mellow as a hot sauce colonic.
 

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