I need $175

[IamGroot]

Audiences today don't care if its karaoke or live. Its just background music for the mating rituals.

The money has mostly dried up.

A decade ago I had a 3 or 4 piece jazz gig going Friday nights at a local wine bar where folks actually sat and listened. We played it as if it was only us musicians and no audience. It was only $50 and a meal ,but I would take that gig again if the opportunity came up.

 

[ThePez]

imo, if said person is a band member, he gets equal cut of whatever the take home is minus expenses. if he’s a hired gun, he can ask for whatever he wants, then it’s up to you. if your band members are acting like this AFTER a gig is booked and price agreed upon, they need to be shown the door.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

...We played it as if it was only us musicians and no audience...

Maybe that's why it dried up?

 

[TeamScorpioRI]

Basically that is just another way of saying "I really don't want to do this gig, but if you pay me X amount I will deal with it".

 

[Sam Dingle]

I asked a very good drummer if he wouldn’t mind playing my gig cuz I wanted to play with him. Gig pays $80 and tips for 3 hours, to which he responded “I can do it for $100 and tips”. I said “ok no worries, I can find someone else for the gig, thanks.”

Few weeks later he texts me and says he’s back in town and available, give him a call. I just felt weird about it cuz he wanted my money more than playing. There is an aspect to working for money if you’re full time, but I think it leaves a bad taste in people’s mouth.

But if I do have a really good paying gig (a wedding for example that pays $300 a man) I’ll use that to hire better players so I can learn, but I always try to bring my buddy’s on that $80 gig when I can.

 

[lfmn16]

Sure, and that’s how I work. As long as I get what i agreed to i don’t care what anyone else gets.

Don't know, don't care, don't want to know. If I'm a hired gun it's none of my business how much everyone else is making.

 

[Kevorargh]

As a newly minted BL for the past year, I have set my rates for the people I hire. I have had a few times when I have asked a few people on the call list and gotten replies that they needed more than I could offer for that particular gig. I told them I couldn't do that and we agreed that I would call if a better situation arose that worked for all of us. One of them I used for an Open Mic audition at a reasonable agreed amount because it was local for him and the timing was good.

No hard feelings one way or the other, to be honest, I'm too busy keeping my own head organized to get upset because someone wants more money than I can afford.

 

[bearfoot]

OF COURSE a Bandleader doesn't like it when musicians negotiate, or set minimums. You're trying to get the most for least, just as they are.

I have no problem with it. I think it's better to be upfront.

 

[Ric5]

OK, I hear statements like this from time to time from musicians about the amount of pay they need to go out for the night -- "I need $175 to go out".

I'll be frank, I don't like the statement AT ALL. It ignores a number of facts:

1. Usually, the gig is booked and pay already negotiated. I can't go back and ask for more.
2. Granting the extra pay normally means taking a cut to my personal pay, or cutting the pay of the other guys.
3. As a consequence of #2, some musicians can get a different rate of pay than the others. This can cause hard feelings.
4. Often there isn't room in the market rates for that increase; if I start quoting to include that rate, we sit at home (most of the time).
5. In my genre, good musicians are plentiful, so musicians who raise prices ignore supply and demand.
6. If I reserve the high paying gigs for certain musicians, that's not fair to the guys who slugged out the $100-$125 gigs.

As a band leader, when you get statements like this -- how do you respond? And what is normally the outcome of such conversations? Do you lose the player, or do they stick with you?

OK … you spend years learning your craft, you pay for lessons, you practice endless unpaid hours, you buy thousands of dollars worth of equipment, you form a band, you rehearse, you buy a pa, you get tight, then you get a gig, and you walk away with $125 … the math does not work …

I realized years ago that I will never break even in the music business … thank God for my day job

 

[Tampabass]

I get having a minimum - too many folks giving away their work (their performance) for little or nothing, and that hurts the market overall.
Still, in my area, if you won't take any gigs that pay less than $175 ... you'll be staying home a lot.

 

[Corevalay]

I wanted more money, as most people do, but I could set priorities and stick to them. I stayed with that job, and, though I never saw that fellow again, I'm pretty sure I got the better deal, over the years.

I think you make a great point here. Sure, you can say "It's not worth it for me to leave my house for less than $175, and that's you opinion completely. BUT at the same time, my 3 gigs that I've played in the time of your one does equal more $$$. So, if you're strictly looking to play and make $$$, no sense in being that picky. Sure, set a minimum, but be reasonable.

 

[J-Mags]

You just say, "Thanks, I can't afford you for this gig. I'll call you if I'm in a bind on a better-paying gig." End of story.

 

[cnltb]

I get having a minimum - too many folks giving away their work (their performance) for little or nothing, and that hurts the market overall.
Still, in my area, if you won't take any gigs that pay less than $175 ... you'll be staying home a lot.

If all did this ,staying at home now might very well be worth it in the long run.

 

[PauFerro]

Don't know, don't care, don't want to know. If I'm a hired gun it's none of my business how much everyone else is making.

I wish everyone had that attitude. It would make my job simpler...

OK … you spend years learning your craft, you pay for lessons, you practice endless unpaid hours, you buy thousands of dollars worth of equipment, you form a band, you rehearse, you buy a pa, you get tight, then you get a gig, and you walk away with $125 … the math does not work …

I realized years ago that I will never break even in the music business … thank God for my day job

Yeah, now THAT'S being realistic -- I once thought how funny it would be to create a Saturday Night LIve skit where you have two sets of characters, one group forming a band to play an upcoming gig for free. they are discussing their motivations for being in the band and their goals... And then another group using the same language roughly to plan a volunteer hole digging club.

What makes music something people do for cheap is the fact that it's fun and fulfilling "if you can get in with the right bumch of fellows". (name that lyric anyone?).

 

[PauFerro]

I would think if you had a band member with this opinion, you would know that before you booked the show. and if you can't get that rate for this person, I think you need to replace them

Here's another angle to this. I spend A LOT of time quoting on gigs. To the point I'm nearly sick of it. Usually 5 or 6 a week given the effort I've put into marketing since about 2010. You hit a tipping point where the leads just flow...

But it's a ton of work to check with musicians about availability every time you get a lead -- a lead that might not even develop into a booking, often over price.

So I just quote a price that long hard experience tells me will get me the gig. Informing this is my knowledge of about 15 musicians I work with and my own goals for them to see the pay increasing this year, more than last year, if I can. So, when I see a budget of $200 for a 4 hour corporate gig, I pass on it entirely after helping the client set the "Realistic" button.

So, often a deal is in place before I approach musicians. These musicians, however, know what I've paid them for similar gigs in the past given travel, time and other requirements. When they suddenly spring a new pay rate on me, I am normally surprised.

I think a better way for them to approach it is to say "we've been going out for $x a gig for a while now, so I'd like to see some higher paying gigs since the economic is better. So, if you want me for gigs after this one, I need $X (indicates threshold).

My response would likely be the same as many others.

 

[levis76]

A man reserves the right to put a value on his time and you reserve the right to call or not to call him. After a few weeks of no calls I suspect he may become a bit more reasonable on his rate.

Honestly, with a statement like that, this guy would find himself at the bottom of my call list, if I didn’t decide to toss his number in the trash altogether.

 

[buldog5151bass]

@PauFerro I think you see where most of us are coming from. I assume you have a stable of potential musicians for each chair. Just keep in mind that the ones who are willing to work with you on the lower paying gigs would be the ones that I would call first for the higher paying ones.

 

[JRA]

i don't have a problem with any musician who has a minimum. it's their business. IME: some are worth it. most are not.

anyone/everyone who sets a minimum = realizes that it's just for the moment, i.e., for as long as they can get it, until circumstances change (market and/or personal).

it has always been that way in the music business (any business, really) and it applies to individuals and bands.

it sounds like a few of you cats are doing well. some/most of you are lucky. some are just bragging on a forum where it's easy to brag and inflate. but all of you are on TB talking about it. in the real world: the best-paid musicians/entertainers are way too busy...at least for the moment --- if they're lucky!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Here's another angle to this. I spend A LOT of time quoting on gigs. To the point I'm nearly sick of it. Usually 5 or 6 a week given the effort I've put into marketing since about 2010. You hit a tipping point where the leads just flow...

But it's a ton of work to check with musicians about availability every time you get a lead -- a lead that might not even develop into a booking, often over price.

So I just quote a price that long hard experience tells me will get me the gig. Informing this is my knowledge of about 15 musicians I work with and my own goals for them to see the pay increasing this year, more than last year, if I can. So, when I see a budget of $200 for a 4 hour corporate gig, I pass on it entirely after helping the client set the "Realistic" button.

So, often a deal is in place before I approach musicians. These musicians, however, know what I've paid them for similar gigs in the past given travel, time and other requirements. When they suddenly spring a new pay rate on me, I am normally surprised.

I think a better way for them to approach it is to say "we've been going out for $x a gig for a while now, so I'd like to see some higher paying gigs since the economic is better. So, if you want me for gigs after this one, I need $X (indicates threshold).

My response would likely be the same as many others.

I would set a higher price for the gigs or form smaller groups so that people can get a higher individual rate. Smaller groups are easier to juggle schedules anyways.

 

[guy n. cognito]

but all of you are on TB talking about it.

All of us.....