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I think it may be time

#41
Pocket Dave said:
If the BL has a criticism of my playing, he's right and I should probably practice some acceptance and adjustment.

Whether he's actually right or not.

And if he's not, still my choice whether or not to take it personally.

I have to decide whether I want peace of mind or to be right.

BTW, I mention practicing acceptance because that's what it takes; Without practice, it doesn't come naturally to me.
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I am trying to understand what you're saying, but failing to do so. Why would the BL always be right?

Marko 1 said:
Playing a fretless even though the others don't like it, because it's "fun", sounds less than reasonable.

When you're in a two-guitar band, you play fewer notes (I'm assuming these are originals?) and one should start out a new song knowing that.

That said, if adjusting makes it no fun, then it's not for you. :)
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Re: playing fretless, most people listen with their eyes. They SEE a fretless and get worked up.

As for two-guitar bands, this is another "TB rule" right here. Best band I was ever in had a 2-guitar line-up and they consistently encouraged me to play busier and busier, rather than simplify my playing. Ultimately, it comes down to tasteful playing, not counting notes.
 
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#43
Wish I had these sorts of issues. Just being able use my talents of playing bass in not just one, but two bands is pretty cool.

Step back, relax, and enjoy the moments.
 
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#46
iriegnome said:
Maybe a bit of group therapy is needed, but I am really starting to believe it is time for me to step away from playing and gigging. I have been mostly unhappy with all of it for a while and this past week's practice just kind of solidified it. Tuesdays practice, disagreement with one guitar player because he doesn't want me to play fretless (I don't use it for gigs, but it is so much fun to play). Then Thursdays band practice, I was told by the drummer that this new song (we hadn't even worked out the rhythm) I shouldn't be playing over his drum accents to which the guitar player (BL) told me I was being too notey. The argument ensued and I flat out told them if they wanted me to play 1/4 notes all night long, then I wasn't the bass player for them and I was out. You can imagine how quickly this turned ugly. I am a founding member of both bands. 22 years in one, 7 in the other. But this really has me very disillusioned and at the end. Yes, I went too far, but the lack of total respect to even have a chance to figure out my role in the new song. I was floored. Yes, I welcome any thoughts and criticisms
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I haven't played in a band on any kind of regular basis since college. And that was about 35 years ago. So... I may not have enough experience to chime in, but...

I personally don't understand why any band member would tell another member which instrument they should play. It's analogous to you telling the guitarist that you don't want them to play their Les Paul anymore, and to only play their Strat. I just don't get it. Bass is your department. That's why you are there. Guitar is their department and they should focus on it.

Honestly, I don't think you went too far. Nothing wrong with making YOUR expectations and YOUR interests clear. They seem to have no trouble voicing theirs. It works both ways. Or at least it should.
 
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#47
iriegnome said:
Maybe a bit of group therapy is needed, but I am really starting to believe it is time for me to step away from playing and gigging. I have been mostly unhappy with all of it for a while and this past week's practice just kind of solidified it. Tuesdays practice, disagreement with one guitar player because he doesn't want me to play fretless (I don't use it for gigs, but it is so much fun to play). Then Thursdays band practice, I was told by the drummer that this new song (we hadn't even worked out the rhythm) I shouldn't be playing over his drum accents to which the guitar player (BL) told me I was being too notey. The argument ensued and I flat out told them if they wanted me to play 1/4 notes all night long, then I wasn't the bass player for them and I was out. You can imagine how quickly this turned ugly. I am a founding member of both bands. 22 years in one, 7 in the other. But this really has me very disillusioned and at the end. Yes, I went too far, but the lack of total respect to even have a chance to figure out my role in the new song. I was floored. Yes, I welcome any thoughts and criticisms
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yes many times bands treat bass players like second class morons ...

so yes quit that band ... but find a good band where they will treat you better
 
#48
What is it that made you "unhappy.... for a while"?
This implies there's more to the story than just these two events.

When emotions become a dominant factor, play a major role, it points to subjectivism in analysis. Subjectivism leads to reactions. In philosophical terms its known as a Weapon of Reaction. If you notice, you reacted when you did not accept their criticisms and vice versa. Sure, you did wonder if they were correct (self criticism) but I get the feeling this was after the event when you had time to reflect..
What leads me to this conclusion is the fact it became an all out argument and everything decended into chaos.
Chaos and arguments are a sure sign of subjectivism.
Right now you have the opportunity to respond to the band with all your concerns.
Keep calm.
Criticise in a comradely fashion.
Put your case forward precisely.
Explain why you used the fretless bass.
Explain the parts aren't even worked out yet and it was a time for experimentation and investigation, creativity, finding what does or doesn't work.
Explain that nothing was definite yet.
Do not engage in shouting matches.
Stick to the fundamental points. Don't stray or get drawn into secondary conversations.
Offer solutions.
Find what unites you as opposed to highlighting differences.

If after all this, it descends into a $#!+ show again or you feel its just not worth the effort, it's time to move on. It's OK to outgrow people and move on.
 
#49
ebo said:
My longest band run was 7 years and it was time to go at that point. Passive aggressive crap drives me crazy. 22 years! Wow. If the kinks haven’t been ironed out in that time I dont know what to tell you. Same stuff shows up in new groups so if what you have is salvageable it may be worthwhile to have “the meeting” that killing floor mentioned, at a neutral location.
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NEUTRAL LOCATION, I cannot agree with you more! I quit a years long bands I had helped found because the drummer who was playing all his passive aggressive games insisted we have that "talk" at his house and it totally blew up with "if you don't like it then get out of my house".
 
#51
How long have you been playing fretless? How long have you been taking it to rehearsal? Covers or originals? Weekly rehearsals in 2 bands for 22 and 7 years? Have you made any changes to your playing or approach? How often do these bands play out?

Maybe you're getting bored with rehearsal and wanting to add a little something? Since two people in the band mentioned your playing and being "notey", they've noticed. The other band is being critical also.

Maybe y'all shouldn't rehearse so often.
 
#54
If it’s “practice” that ‘s done at home.

If it’s “rehearsal” that means doing, and playing, what you will on the gig.

If it’s composing, the main writer should have the most say followed by the vocalist.

If it’s jamming, do what’s musically best for everyone in the room.

If it can’t be resolved easily and amicably, it speaks for itself.

Overplaying while learning a song seems unusual / backwards. Unless trying a lot of things on an original. Really depends on the style and familiarity with the mechanics of the piece of music, but overplaying - especially while others trying to figure out their parts too, is never OK.

Is your intonation excellent? Wondering why you don’t gig on fretless.

Recordings?
 
#55
For the most part, gigs keep bands together.

Sometimes, bands can also involve friendships. But IME, that is the exception.

The great objective in life too short is to surround yourself with good people. Much harder than just saying it. Applies to everything about life. Bands included. Some gigs have better people than others. I find that most musicians with higher skill levels tend to be better to work with; but, there are always the special ones. Got to calculate pain vs gain.

Anyhow, there is always another gig to be had. You only owe a given band whatever gigs you’ve said “yes” to. Issues with some specific band that won’t go away? Not uncommon and no big deal. Find the next gig. Respectfully.
 
#56
iriegnome said:
Maybe a bit of group therapy is needed, but I am really starting to believe it is time for me to step away from playing and gigging. I have been mostly unhappy with all of it for a while and this past week's practice just kind of solidified it. Tuesdays practice, disagreement with one guitar player because he doesn't want me to play fretless (I don't use it for gigs, but it is so much fun to play). Then Thursdays band practice, I was told by the drummer that this new song (we hadn't even worked out the rhythm) I shouldn't be playing over his drum accents to which the guitar player (BL) told me I was being too notey. The argument ensued and I flat out told them if they wanted me to play 1/4 notes all night long, then I wasn't the bass player for them and I was out. You can imagine how quickly this turned ugly. I am a founding member of both bands. 22 years in one, 7 in the other. But this really has me very disillusioned and at the end. Yes, I went too far, but the lack of total respect to even have a chance to figure out my role in the new song. I was floored. Yes, I welcome any thoughts and criticisms
Click to expand...

I’m fairly certain you didn’t become a musician to be miserable. 22 years of being a contributor on a project is a long time. I recently walked away from a project I was apart of for about the same amount of time. Let me tell you, it was a relief.

On the other hand, I’m still working with a band I’ve been in since 1971. On thing we do is we record all rehearsals and gigs. When it comes to discussions about musical parts that are or are not working, a recording is is worth a thousand words.

I’m not sure if this scenario was a composite from both bands, or is it just one band where there is a rub?
 
#57
LiptonJigglers said:
What is it that made you "unhappy.... for a while"?
This implies there's more to the story than just these two events.

When emotions become a dominant factor, play a major role, it points to subjectivism in analysis. Subjectivism leads to reactions. In philosophical terms its known as a Weapon of Reaction. If you notice, you reacted when you did not accept their criticisms and vice versa. Sure, you did wonder if they were correct (self criticism) but I get the feeling this was after the event when you had time to reflect..
What leads me to this conclusion is the fact it became an all out argument and everything decended into chaos.
Chaos and arguments are a sure sign of subjectivism.
Right now you have the opportunity to respond to the band with all your concerns.
Keep calm.
Criticise in a comradely fashion.
Put your case forward precisely.
Explain why you used the fretless bass.
Explain the parts aren't even worked out yet and it was a time for experimentation and investigation, creativity, finding what does or doesn't work.
Explain that nothing was definite yet.
Do not engage in shouting matches.
Stick to the fundamental points. Don't stray or get drawn into secondary conversations.
Offer solutions.
Find what unites you as opposed to highlighting differences.

If after all this, it descends into a $#!+ show again or you feel its just not worth the effort, it's time to move on. It's OK to outgrow people and move on.
Click to expand...

The reasonableness and quality of your advice is in sharp contrast to the silliness of your screenname.
 
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#58
EddiePlaysBass said:
I am trying to understand what you're saying, but failing to do so. Why would the BL always be right?
Click to expand...
It's the thing about the boss always having the power, which means that even if he isn't right, our responsibility is to kowtow to him and pretend he is, and do what he says even when we know it's not the best course.

The boss has the power, and this is true in many situations. But we actually always also have the power to change our situation, and if the boss is actually not right, we have the power to walk away and find someone whose vision is more aligned than our own to work with/for, if it's uncomfortable enough for us that we decide not to tip-toe around the boss by lying to him and the rest of our colleagues.

I think many of us have been conditioned to believe that the boss is always right no matter what because that's what brings us security. But a band isn't usually a job these days for most of us, so we don't need security in that sense.

It's not a bad thing to be open to criticism, but the criticism needs to make sense. Only the OP can say for sure that it does or doesn't.
 
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#59
Music and being in a band should be fun...period! It's a form of expression and freedom from the BS we face in life. However, if this is your day job, you have a problem. IMHO...music, like a painting, is your interpretation. Otherwise, it becomes a chore and no fun at all. I'm a nurse by day and in a band at night. Thank God for my band.
 
#60
Life is short. 22- and 7-year relationships don't happen often, and depending on your age, may never again. The events at these 2 practices don't warrant quitting IMHO. I'd suggest you focus on all the other years - and why you're still with these bands - when deciding what to do. Good luck, DM
 
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