Is anyone playing current Top 40?

[51PRI]

I appreciate the response, but again, I have to keep stopping to correct the strawmanning. I NEVER said something needs to be sophisticated to be good. Rather, I never said something has to be COMPLEX to be good. Sophistication, depending on your usage, can either mean "complex" or it can mean "intricate." I do think any fine piece of music, even simple three chord songs, have a kind of intricacy. A kind of elegance.

"they say that there's a sacred chord." Two ideas. "they say"=A "sacred chords"=B
line 1: A A B
-asymmetry in phrase structure
line 1.5: A A B
Repeat. Creates familiarity. The listener is now highly confident they know what comes next.
line 2: A A A A C
-fragmentation of the phrase. Creating a big SKEW with the multiple A's in a row. The listener has suddenly been driven off a cliff. They are rescued by "doooo ya" which is a "C idea(technically C is not "new." It's the REVERSE of A + a note. instead of "they say," it's "say they"+"ya")
-this is the first "cold water in the face." The listener was lulled into a false sense of security by a repeating phrase. They are now alerted to whatever might come next, defenses up, but fatally curious.
Line 3: A A A A B B
Notice it's ANOTHER string of 4 "a's". "it goes+like this+the fourth+the fifth+" This is where the first major payoff happens. You both have a high degree of confidence that you're going to get another "dooo ya" right here. Further, you THINK that's what you want. But what a master songwriter does is, have his WAY with you. You are putty in the writer's hands. Instead of another "doo ya." You get a DOUBLE B "minor falls, the major lifts," which is the "sacred chord" idea. Notice this balances the equation. We missed out on "sacred chord" when we were introduced to "dooo ya." Now we have an "A heavy" problem that needs to be balanced out. He both reintroduces B and doubles it.
Line 4:A A A A C
-this is a development of line 2 but using other composition techniques that are too technical to get into here. But this is of course the "landing" of the phrase. "leu-jia" is the payoff of "do-ya" finally gratifying you. It took waht you thought you wanted and gave you something MUCH better. Surprising, yet inevitable. "I can't believe that just happened, but it couldn't have happened any other way." THAT is songwriting.
Refrain: C C C D
again technically this is more detailed. the C's are "primaed" and the D is more of a mutated C, but again for simplicity's sake, he brings it home with a lot of "doo yas" restful, relatively predictable. This is the cigarette after the coitus. This is the "anti-climax." It's one of the many choices you have in terms of form when you get outside of "8 bar verse. 8 bar prechorus. 8 bar chorus. 8 bar post chorus."

But is "halleleujia" COMPLEX? no. However, depending on your usage, it is highly sophisticated, but not with the sort of "fancy/complex" baggage that word usually carries. By sophisticated, I mean it is a finely tuned little miracle of clockwork. Not an ounce of fat. Every note, and I mean EVERY note, has its purpose to support and elevate all other notes. Change one thing, the whole song falls apart. This is what I mean when I say FINE writing. And this level of craft doesn't just HAPPEN.

So please. Everyone. Don't strawman what I'm trying to say. The modern singer songwriter, for the MOST part, with some exceptions, doesn't write. they do what I call "channeling." They play a loop of chords and "sing stuff" over the chords. They kind of feel around in the dark and use their instincts and intuition to sort of cobble together these songs that are just "a loop of chords with stuff being sung over the top." We're all musicians here. I CANT be the only one who sees this. This, by the way is NOT subjective. Someone may subjectively dislike Halleleujia for a number of reasons. Might not like the performance or the genre, it might just not be applicable to their truth, just doesn't speak to them, but its sheer brilliance as a song is NOT subjective. It's provable and demonstrable.

If you tried this kind of analysis on "hello" by Adele(which I have for my songwriting students), you get like, basically a random number generator. White noise. Some strong ideas here and there but they are abandoned for other random, unrelated ideas and the song crumbles under its own weight. I know I know it was a huge hit.

As you pointed out, being a successful pop songwriter is not just the song. It's a combination of fashion, personality, luck, technology, culture, timing, and of course the X factor. Personally, *I* listen to songs because I love songs. The modern pop world is fine for what it is. it serves its function. But when was the last time a popular song BROKE your heart. Made you as an adult CRY or explode with joy? And no it doesn't have to be some epic art song. It's my Party makes me cry. The theme to Jurassic Park makes me cry. Embarrassing as it is, the theme to Tiny Toon Adventures, composed by Bruce Broughton, moved me to tears once because I was sitting with it analyzing it and it really is just a masterwork in terms of melodic construction. I am moved by great tunes, wherever they may be, whenever they may be from. So yes. "the perfect pop song" has probably been recorded and fallen into obscurity hundreds of times in the last 20 years. I'm talking to you all as a song lover, NOT someone who's trying to say "modern pop sucks and old music was better" so can we please drop that?

Thanks everyone for following me down this crazy 2 day tangent.

Huh?!? I mean, what?

 

[neutralomen]

Huh?!? I mean, what?

Listen to Leonard covenant hallelujah through to the first chorus and follow that guide and it Will make sense what I'm describing. Maybe someone else can help too. It's a type of song analysis to demonstrate what I've been trying to talk about.

 

[51PRI]

Listen to Leonard covenant hallelujah through to the first chorus and follow that guide and it Will make sense what I'm describing. Maybe someone else can help too. It's a type of song analysis to demonstrate what I've been trying to talk about.

Hallelujah is a great song. That aside we seem to be discussing this point from two, or more, different viewpoints. My question was if bands are successfully playing current Top 40 songs. You seem to be discussing the merits of those songs compared to a handful of older songs that you personally decided are musically superior. My point would not be that current Top 40 songs are superior. It doesn't matter. They ARE the most popular songs right now. The fact that "My Ding-a-Ling" was Chuck Berry's only #1 record when I like many of his other songs much better is a good example.

( If you come back saying "My Ding-a-Ling" is musically superior to "Maybelline" I'm out)

 

[neutralomen]

Hallelujah is a great song. That aside we seem to be discussing this point from two, or more, different viewpoints. My question was if bands are successfully playing current Top 40 songs. You seem to be discussing the merits of those songs compared to a handful of older songs that you personally decided are musically superior. My point would not be that current Top 40 songs are superior. It doesn't matter. They ARE the most popular songs right now. The fact that "My Ding-a-Ling" was Chuck Berry's only #1 record when I like many of his other songs much better is a good example.

( If you come back saying "My Ding-a-Ling" is musically superior to "Maybelline" I'm out)

I'm not"personally deciding. I just made a coherent easy to verify case for what I'm talking about.

 

[droo46]

Hallelujah is a great song. That aside we seem to be discussing this point from two, or more, different viewpoints. My question was if bands are successfully playing current Top 40 songs. You seem to be discussing the merits of those songs compared to a handful of older songs that you personally decided are musically superior. My point would not be that current Top 40 songs are superior. It doesn't matter. They ARE the most popular songs right now. The fact that "My Ding-a-Ling" was Chuck Berry's only #1 record when I like many of his other songs much better is a good example.

( If you come back saying "My Ding-a-Ling" is musically superior to "Maybelline" I'm out)

I've only been gigging for about a decade, but what I've observed is that Top 40 songs tend to do well in the year they're released, but drop off rather quickly. All About That Bass was a good example in the early 2010's. It packed a dance floor every time we played it, but after 3 months or so, we started dropping it because the novelty had worn off and it felt overplayed. The old standards that we're all sick of playing like Don't Stop Believing and My Girl are just silver bullets. They always land and probably always will.

From the last 10 years, I'm finding that there are several Top 40 tunes that have entered that silver bullet status: Uptown Funk by Bruno Mars, Happy by Pharrell Williams, All of Me by John Legend, Get Lucky by Daft Punk, and Sugar by Maroon 5.

 

[51PRI]

I've only been gigging for about a decade, but what I've observed is that Top 40 songs tend to do well in the year they're released, but drop off rather quickly. All About That Bass was a good example in the early 2010's. It packed a dance floor every time we played it, but after 3 months or so, we started dropping it because the novelty had worn off and it felt overplayed....
From the last 10 years, I'm finding that there are several Top 40 tunes that have entered that silver bullet status: Uptown Funk by Bruno Mars, Happy by Pharrell Williams, All of Me by John Legend, Get Lucky by Daft Punk, and Sugar by Maroon 5.

I agree, and I think that's the neat thing about playing current Top 40. Staying relevant. But it's very true that songs will come and go quickly. That's why it's necessary to have band members who will learn songs quickly and be willing to let them go when their time is over.

 

[cassanova]

I'm about to do an audition for a band that has gigs on the books for the next couple of months that does some current top-40 stuff. The one thing I've noticed from bands that do play it is they mix it in with older hits too. In the local dives though, it goes over like a lead balloon.

 

[51PRI]

I'm about to do an audition for a band that has gigs on the books for the next couple of months that does some current top-40 stuff. The one thing I've noticed from bands that do play it is they mix it in with older hits too. In the local dives though, it goes over like a lead balloon.

Two questions:
1. So you DO know bands that play Top 40?
2. Do you think that Top 40 goes over like a lead balloon in dive bars simply because the patrons aren't familiar with the songs? Or is there another reason?

 

[cassanova]

Two questions:
1. So you DO know bands that play Top 40?
2. Do you think that Top 40 goes over like a lead balloon in dive bars simply because the patrons aren't familiar with the songs? Or is there another reason?

Yes, but honestly not many. One of them wound up being the house band at one of the local bars. It had a more adult crowd. They mixed in older top-40 hits as well. I honestly believe the reason they go over like a lead balloon here in the dives is because these bars tend to draw the biker and classic rock crowds, and tend to serve cheaper drinks. Another thing I've noticed is the bands playing in the local dives, don't tend to be as good as the one's playing any sort of top 40, to include any of the rock hits. The country bars tend to pack a crowd too, and from what I understand from others more in the know on them is they do modern country with current, to slightly older, but not necessarily old hits. If I land this gig I'll let you know how the current top 40 stuff went over compared to the older/slightly older top 40.

 

[pepj]

Re what goes done well, where. Age old problem.

I think it is easier/better to set out your stall and target certain venues.
That way, you play places that align with what you do and their crowd.

80's bands are popular here, but samey. 80's acts with synth bias are current fave but 'niche'.

Good time party bands that get people singing and dancing are the 'thing' here.
(Top 40 is mainly functions but can work in up market venues. Venue and function type fees are quite a way apart but it keeps that band ticking over and in the shop window)

The bands that do that well get the crowds and charge upto 25% more on the circuit and no one minds paying it if it transfers to drink sales. IME

 

[DWBass]

Nope

 

[QORC]

I didn't realize there actually still was a "top 40". Radio has become so segmented and particularistic now. the "top 40" as I knew it as a younger man and a kid simply isn't there. We all aren't listening to the same transistor radio station. I think it would be hard to identify, therefore, tunes that are current and "almost everyone knows".

 

[El Güero]

The fact that "My Ding-a-Ling" was Chuck Berry's only #1 record when I like many of his other songs much better is a good example.

That's weird...I just just thinking about that a few days ago.

And how Hendrix's biggest selling single (in the USA) was All Along the Watchtower, and only made it into the Top 20. He did sell a lot of albums in the US.

I think Zappa's best known song is the one about not eating that yellow snow.

"You'll never go broke..."

 

[51PRI]

...Good time party bands that get people singing and dancing are the 'thing' here.(Top 40 is mainly functions but can work in up market venues. Venue and function type fees are quite a way apart but it keeps that band ticking over and in the shop window)

The bands that do that well get the crowds and charge upto 25% more on the circuit and no one minds paying it if it transfers to drink sales. IME

Interesting.

....Another thing I've noticed is the bands playing in the local dives, don't tend to be as good as the one's playing any sort of top 40, to include any of the rock hits.....

So the bands playing (probably) half fast versions of old classic rock and the like aren't as good as bands playing Top 40? Kinda makes sense. Top 40 is more demanding if you do it right.

....The country bars tend to pack a crowd too, and from what I understand from others more in the know on them is they do modern country with current, to slightly older, but not necessarily old hits.....

Modern Country versus old, i.e."classic" country is a big point of contention, too. I know people who love country but hate modern country and bro country.

...If I land this gig I'll let you know how the current top 40 stuff went over compared to the older/slightly older top 40.

Thank You. Please do.

I didn't realize there actually still was a "top 40"....the "top 40" as I knew it as a younger man and a kid simply isn't there...

Yes, Top 40 is still there. They may actually call it Top 100 now or something like that, though, and it includes all genres if I'm not mistaken. Then you also have genre specific charts, too.
The Hot 100 Chart | Billboard

 

[cassanova]

Interesting.

So the bands playing (probably) half fast versions of old classic rock and the like aren't as good as bands playing Top 40? Kinda makes sense. Top 40 is more demanding if you do it right.

The two best Top 40 acts I've seen in my area sequenced all the missing instruments they didn't have in the band. Never, and I do mean never, did they sound anything less than polished and professional. Both also had female singers that knew their stuff. With the exception of one band, the rock acts as you stated tend to be doing things half fast, and the singer is often times, how can I put this nicely? Horrible.

Modern Country versus old, i.e."classic" country is a big point of contention, too. I know people who love country but hate modern country and bro country.

Allow me to clarify on the country. It's modern, and when I say older but not old, I'm talking about going back to the late 90's, early 2000's modern country. You're not likely to hear Willy, Merle Haggard, etc.

 

[Scarysharkface]

I guess, if you like being out of touch. Have you heard of Doja Cat?

I'm only as out of touch as I've ever been. Top 40 is not where I've ever found my muse and I've never had a problem finding good gigs.

John

 

[Beej]

Out of current Top 40, 21 songs are by Drake. Not sure about you, but I don't think we could successfully cover any Drake tune even if we tried. I think @droo46 nailed it above mentioning those Top 40 tunes that have reached silver bullet status - those ones will probably kill in a modern set, depending on who's out there. That said, my cover band is unlikely to play to a lot of 20 somethings, more like 35 somethings and older, so they are more amenable to anything from the last 20 years with regard to top pop.

 

[5StringBlues]

Could I get some more Ipod in the monitor, please?

 

[Lesfunk]

Not a fan of playing current top 40.
Why?
Because you get trapped into learning and playing a lot of “ here today, gone later today” material.
There’s a lot of turnover when songs have a short shelf life.
I’m not sure it’s even worth doing “fancy like Applebee’s on a date nite”…
Play it on five gigs and it’ll be gone like a fart in the wind …
I don’t mind doing contemporary music, but prefer to do “current” material that has already shown a bit of staying power. Like within five years

 

[pepj]

Top 40 is generic for popular and modern and many of them become classics.

Nobody thinks top 40 relates to chart position at any given time because there isnt a single chart to reference exclusively.