I've been playing a T-Bird for 30 years and I just never got the rap about neck dive (or maybe I've been in denial all these years?). My right forearm sits on the body and counteracts the weight of the neck (and my strap button is in the original location). Its always been a non-issue with me. You do need to have straplocks if you use the original strap button location though.......
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Isn't neck dive simply a builders flaw?
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
My definition for a balanced instrument would be one that stays in place with the headstock 30 degrees above horizontal with a strap that slides easily over the shoulder. I don't know of many basses that do that.
For me, a wide grippy strap does not solve neck dive. I don't like the pulling on my shoulder from a neck-heavy instrument and a sticky strap.
I also prefer a lighter bass, but less weight in the body makes it more likely for a bass to be neck-heavy.
I think that avoiding neck dive in a bass guitar is a difficult problem to solve. A lot of compromises and design choices go into making a bass guitar. I would tend to think of neck dive as less of a design flaw and more of a design choice.
If a bass player doesn't want a bass with neck dive, then he or she should choose a different one. That said, I wish there were more basses out there that balanced well.
For me, a wide grippy strap does not solve neck dive. I don't like the pulling on my shoulder from a neck-heavy instrument and a sticky strap.
I also prefer a lighter bass, but less weight in the body makes it more likely for a bass to be neck-heavy.
I think that avoiding neck dive in a bass guitar is a difficult problem to solve. A lot of compromises and design choices go into making a bass guitar. I would tend to think of neck dive as less of a design flaw and more of a design choice.
If a bass player doesn't want a bass with neck dive, then he or she should choose a different one. That said, I wish there were more basses out there that balanced well.
To the OP question:
In short "yes." It would be a flaw in the same way that a floppy B string is a flaw, or a noisy preamp, or poor neck pocket. You name it, we can name a bass that has it.
But you have to consider that all designs are compromising to some degree. The designer is almost always going to trade something for something else. It is completely reasonable that neck dive is accepted compromise in order to benefit a different performance characteristic or even a different look. Just like it's hard to make a five string with a great B string that you can sell at a profit for $300.
As has been stated, if neck dive matters to you, don't buy those basses.
In short "yes." It would be a flaw in the same way that a floppy B string is a flaw, or a noisy preamp, or poor neck pocket. You name it, we can name a bass that has it.
But you have to consider that all designs are compromising to some degree. The designer is almost always going to trade something for something else. It is completely reasonable that neck dive is accepted compromise in order to benefit a different performance characteristic or even a different look. Just like it's hard to make a five string with a great B string that you can sell at a profit for $300.
As has been stated, if neck dive matters to you, don't buy those basses.
scotch
It's not rocket science!
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Jauqo, have you actually experienced physical harm from playing a 'neck-diver'? Or, is the scenario more hypothetic?
Hope your hands are ok, man!
Hope your hands are ok, man!
If I build myself another bass, I'm going to do a body on it styled after the old Ovation "Breadwinner / Deacon" guitars.
I played one of those for a day, and with the large part of the body under your right forearm, it was VERY comfortable and had no neck-dive issues at all. It was one of the most perfect feeling instruments I ever played.
I played one of those for a day, and with the large part of the body under your right forearm, it was VERY comfortable and had no neck-dive issues at all. It was one of the most perfect feeling instruments I ever played.
I have experienced numbness and tingling in my left hand.And a lot of focus would be more on trying to keep the bass balanced, taking away from the actual application of the notes.
This was a few years ago.
Or, is the scenario more hypothetic?
Hope your hands are ok, man!
The lawsuit scenario was hypothetical.
And my hands are fine(thanks for asking).
Don't think he said it didn't happen, just that he disagree's with the facti t happens.
People complain about "big brother" yet want to be babied in a nanny state.
Jauqo, have you actually experienced physical harm from playing a 'neck-diver'? Or, is the scenario more hypothetic?
Hope your hands are ok, man!
Well, I for one have endured severe cramps and bad feelings in the wrists after playing my Epiphone Viola. Because when I play it with a proper technique, the left hand must support the neck. When playing with a bad right hand technique(Wrist on the body so it maintain the neck upward), it's easier to play but I can't play like that for 6 hours a day.(I'm talking 6 splitted hours) It afected my practice time, so now I only do 2 hours a day...
So, that's why I'm searching for a low costing single cut. Because being in music college,practicing and playing are the only thing to do. (Except partying and studying theory!)
scotch
It's not rocket science!
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Yeah, but being a college students isn't always easy you know, I must stack up some cash for university too.
But yeah getting a balanced bass is my priority. But ATM I must pay the bills.
But yeah getting a balanced bass is my priority. But ATM I must pay the bills.
This exactly. If I want a Tbird (sort of do, but don't like the dive) or another bass that isn't balanced I'm voting against caring about neck dive.
I would hope that if I gave my dream spec to a builder of custom instruments he would advise me about a potential imbalance. If I insisted on a dive-prone design it would certainly be my own fault!
For many people it's not just being fussy, it's about chronic injury issues.
As in buying something that was well designed and constructed, yeah.
And that's great!
But it's ok if someone else puts tone 1st & ergonomics 2nd right? The market's big enough for both camps, isn't it?
Sure, people buy poorly designed and constructed products all the time in favor of aesthetic considerations. Nobody said otherwise. It's up to the consumer. It doesn't change the fact that a bass with neck dive has a design and/or construction flaw.
To me it's like a car that always pulls to the left. If I bought a brand new car and it had this problem, I would not be a happy camper. Others may be so pleased with the way the car looks that they don't care so much.
Here, here.
Can't it also have something to do with a sort of (misplaced in some eyes I'm sure) romantic idea of an instrument having a character? I heard numerous times people claiming that a bass' shortcomings make it the bass they love. Be it neckdive, or weight, or deadspots or anything else. "Fighting" the bass and getting to know it is what makes a bond between the player and the bass. Sort of like a really old car you've had since you were sixteen, where you're the only one who knows that the door only opens if you push it in a certain way, or the radio only works when tapped in a certain spot. It adds to charm.
I personally disagree with the above to an extent. I understand the charm thing, and would love to own a bass that is "like an old friend", with which I've had all sorts of adventures. But I'd much rather have that with a lightweight bass that's ergonomically sound.
Then again, maybe it has something to do with the players attitude. You know, "I play punkrockmetahlz and I don't NEED a balanced bass".
or a lot of them just dont care that much, or understand what neck dive even is, ext.
its a pretty basic idea- as long as your strap button is above the 12th fret you'll be fine (usually.) it suprises me how many basses are being mas-produced without this in mind..
my basses all balance perfectly, but i used to have a guild b-301..
from the time i bought that bass on, i quickly learned what neck dive is, and why i should avoid it..
