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Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed

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#761
Fergie Fulton said:
Exactly, its on an open forum, so the point Jeff puts across can be read anywhere there is an internet connection. I present myself as one who seeks information in a creadible factual way. For you to question my "mental state of mind" could be seen as trying to undermine my points in favour of Jeff Berlin. Like i said, let Jeff Berlin explain his post, I'm sure he is big enough (in more ways than one) to handle anything i say if he can or will speak for himself.;)
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This thread is a miniature "ask a pro" thread. Jeff doesn't have to answer any question he doesn't want to. I posted twice in this thread regarding points that I didn't agree with or saw differently. They got no response, so I moved on. Some of Jeff's opinions are controversial. As long as we understand that his opinions are that and nothing more, then everything is fine. If Jeff or anyone else on the planet claims that an opinion is fact then the problem lies with the person making the claim, and that will be plain for all to see. Following a pro around in an "ask a pro" thread and disrupting the whole thing while they are obviously ignoring you accomplishes nothing other than to weaken the thread for everyone else. My suspicion is that Jeff has you on ignore. Why not return the favor and move on in deference to those who actually wish to interact and hear more of Jeff's opinions?
 
#762
Chris Fitzgerald said:
This thread is a miniature "ask a pro" thread. Jeff doesn't have to answer any question he doesn't want to. I posted twice in this thread regarding points that I didn't agree with or saw differently. They got no response, so I moved on. Some of Jeff's opinions are controversial. As long as we understand that his opinions are that and nothing more, then everything is fine. If Jeff or anyone else on the planet claims that an opinion is fact then the problem lies with the person making the claim, and that will be plain for all to see. Following a pro around in an "ask a pro" thread and disrupting the whole thing while they are obviously ignoring you accomplishes nothing other than to weaken the thread for everyone else. My suspicion is that Jeff has you on ignore. Why not return the favor and move on in deference to those who actually wish to interact and hear more of Jeff's opinions?
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Hi Chris, I accept all you say, except that i should let this comment go. Jeff Berlin in discussing music has a responsibility to keep his information relevent, if Jeff Berlin cannot do that then he actively encourages trouble, which leads to most of his problems in dealing with people i have found.

If Jeff berlin will not answer this point

England is not a great place for good music teachers! Musical things don't generally fly in academia over there. I know this for a fact as I am familiar with the general attitude toward learning music in this, and a few other countries.
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Then it should be removed, all reference to it removed, including mine, by moderators and let this thread continue on without it being in. removing it does not change the nature of the thread, leaving it in does.:)
 
#763
Give it a rest. Cripes. You had your say, spending way too many words in the process. Derailing all the other value on such a trivial off-handed remark that you've got blown up to the size of the Goodyear blimp - at the expense of much more interesting insights and guidance from Jeff - is just ludicrous.

atomic-bomb-and-blimp-s.jpg
 
#764
Fergie Fulton said:
Hi Chris, I accept all you say, except that i should let this comment go. Jeff Berlin in discussing music has a responsibility to keep his information relevent, if Jeff Berlin cannot do that then he actively encourages trouble, which leads to most of his problems in dealing with people i have found.

If Jeff berlin will not answer this point

England is not a great place for good music teachers! Musical things don't generally fly in academia over there. I know this for a fact as I am familiar with the general attitude toward learning music in this, and a few other countries.
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Then it should be removed, all reference to it removed, including mine, by moderators and let this thread continue on without it being in. removing it does not change the nature of the thread, leaving it in does.:)
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Wrong. With this Jeff is making a claim that obviously cannot be substantiated, which reflects on him in exactly that way, which is obvious to anyone. Let it go. This is getting extremely tiresome. Part of Jeff's approach is to make broad brush statements that he feels strongly about but that cannot be substantiated. Clearly, they're opinions and not facts, no matter how strongly he may state them as such. It is obviously a non factual statement, and one that could not possibly be anything else. Take it as an opinion you feel to be extremely misguided and even outright wrong, but let it go. Pretend that he had prefaced each remark with "in my opinion/experience", or do whatever it takes to let it go. It's his thread. Anyone who can deal with this is free to participate. Anyone who doesn't want to deal with this can start their own thread entitled "Someone else discussing music Ed".


The bigger picture here is that there are many TB members who are happy to have this opportunity to have direct interchange with Jeff. To spoil the thread over a sticking point such as this would be a waste. If a person presents an idea as fact that cannot possibly be proven as fact, that reflects more on the person making the statement than the subject of it. Again, let it go.
 
#765
JeffBerlin said:
Then, there you go! This sounds like quite an endorsement, and so, if you can locate and study with Dave, then you guys should do so. Just make sure that you are ready to study with him. As I mentioned above, you have to have certain skills to take advantage of the great ones. If you have 'em, then call him and the other great upright guys and ask for lessons. But, if you are still putting your playing together, then aim toward the guys that hold the facts and solid lessons of playing and music in their hands and learn from these guys first. Good luck to all!
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Agreed. I've been building my skills for years with guys who've studied with Dave Holland, Glen Moore, Dave Friesen, and so on. I figured that when they told me it was to move on to the actual masters I'd at least consider if I'm committed enough to offer something to them in return for their insight ;).
 
#766
It is obviously a non factual statement, and one that could not possibly be anything else.
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This is an internet forum, not all speak English, even if i said that
England is not a great place for good music teachers! Musical things don't generally fly in academia over there. I know this for a fact as I am familiar with the general attitude toward learning music in this, and a few other countries.
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on the European mainland as a joke i would have a lot of explaining to do about what i ment. European countries are very literal in there understanding of things.

Last year in Holland we were giving a runner, a young girl to deal with our needs at a large festival in the way of food, drinks, translation, equipment, travel arrangments etc. After asking the girl if she was our escort for the stage, we were embroiled in near to coming to blows situation with crew and backstage staff...in Holland a escort is also a prostitute, the girl was a daughter of one of the organisers and sponsers who did not take kindly to the fact we thought his daughter was a prostitute.:)

So i am the one to let it go, i'll let it go, but a forum has a wider responsibility than to let some things slid in favour of the truth..:cool:
 
#769
fergie, i thought i was bad when it comes to all matters jeff berlin, but holy cow, you just don't let anything go ever! he's not going to answer you, just as he's not going to answer me. i figured it out and let it go because life's too short. i highly recommend you do the same for your own sanity. you have some good things to say most of the time...but with all due respect, this ranting makes you look like a mental patient more than someone interested in a discussion about the state of musical education around the world. it really does.
 
#771
tZer said:
So... How bout those tritone substitutions, eh?

:hiding:
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don't you mean, how bout those Yankees? Wait... its the yanks that caused all this ....we'll see what happens during the world cup, aye? All in fun to our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic.
Peace to all and Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Festivus and all that Jazz. Let it Be!!!!:cool:
 
#773
Bassman8416 said:
don't you mean, how bout those Yankees? Wait... its the yanks that caused all this ....we'll see what happens during the world cup, aye? All in fun to our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic.
Peace to all and Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Festivus and all that Jazz. Let it Be!!!!:cool:
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I'll answer some of this in a minute. Meanwhile, I'm just watching the proceedings.
 
#774
JimmyM said:
fergie, i thought i was bad when it comes to all matters jeff berlin, but holy cow, you just don't let anything go ever! he's not going to answer you, just as he's not going to answer me. i figured it out and let it go because life's too short. i highly recommend you do the same for your own sanity. you have some good things to say most of the time...but with all due respect, this ranting makes you look like a mental patient more than someone interested in a discussion about the state of musical education around the world. it really does.
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LOL i know Jimmy, but if you know me you'll know i like to poke him just to let him know i'm there, because even if he does not answer, he does read. As for me the internet does not do me justice on how calm and quiet i am when i talk, i see no need in shouting LOL. ;)
 
#779
i had a warning about comments i made in another thread about Mr. Berlin, so i should really stay away......BUT, music education in the UK is awesome.

opinions are opinions yes, i don't care about americans policy on 'free speech', but if you got nothing nice to say then don't say it at all, even if your good at what you do! i am not going to name names.
 
#780
funkmangriff said:
i had a warning about comments i made in another thread about Mr. Berlin, so i should really stay away......BUT, music education in the UK is awesome.

opinions are opinions yes, i don't care about americans policy on 'free speech', but if you got nothing nice to say then don't say it at all, even if your good at what you do! i am not going to name names.
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Depends on where you go for it. A generalization shouldn't offend you. The music education in England reflects the music education everywhere, which is generally poor. England's general music population has little interest in learning music, but a great deal of interest in performing it. I know England's educational system intimately. I know some of the schools, the teachers, and I know how the general community of players in England feel about academic learning. And it isn't very supportive of it, hence the generally low attention to musical fact, and only a few good schools dedicated in teaching it, but a huge focus by English players on gigs or performance. If you fall into either group, why be offended with a statement that fits your own personal musical standards? What music school do you study at? If you have learned something there, then what do you care if the general attitude isn't of your standard. Just applaud your own individual improvement because this is all that counts.
 
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